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Gear / Technical Help => Ask The Tapers => Topic started by: manamana on September 24, 2006, 11:27:32 AM
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Hi all.
I used to run around with some TLM 170s, a lunatec, and an apogee, but sold it all in '03 when my tastes changed somewhat and I needed the money.
looking to get back into it now, but most of the shows I see these days don't allow open taping. trying to keep it in the 3-4K range.
my thoughts: used 722/702 + used DPA 402x.
another possibility is used 402x> ??> R1
looking for other ideas to check out. must be 24bit. MT seems like more hassel than it's worth...has that changed?
and if anyone has any of these things for sale, please let me know your price. (I'm keeping an eye on the yard sale)
Best,
C
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4022>Sanosax>Edirol R-09 wouldn't be too shabby. ;)
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4022>Sanosax>Edirol R-09 wouldn't be too shabby. ;)
My sentiments exactly :)
Used 402x approximately $2200-2500 with mounts but you only see a used set every 3-4 months
Used Sonosax SX-M2 $650-750
new R-09 $350
new 4GB Transcend SD card $57 after buy.com $30 rebate
Total ~ $3657
So it's under $4k but used 402x and sonosaxes are hard to find.
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There are some used 4021's in the yard sale right.Robert is a stand up guy and takes very good care of his gear.http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=72257.0
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I thought about the sonosax...I remember using one once or twice with the 170s and not liking it much (more from a useability standpoint than sound-wise)
I kind of really like the "all in one" appeal of the SD 7x2 units. they seem to be wonderful in terms of useability. How does the preamp in the SD compare to the SX-M2?
when using both the pre and AD on a 722 at 24/96, how much battery life do you get? is the 702 any better? (I'm thinking a used 702 should be around $1500, If I can find one, and would weigh slightly less)
here's another thought: would it be possible to get the 402xs, an r-09, and some phanotm battery boxes, just to tide me over till I can find a good deal on a 7x2 serries? more or less I'm wondering about the pre in the 09.
I think I met robert at a couple shows around 01. I know we at least traded email or tapes. That's a great kit, but probably more than I'm looking to spend, and I don't need all the odd mounting accessories. might be an option if I don't come across anything else though.
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schoeps mk4 > Nbox > R-9 would be my choice and would be easily under $4k
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I kind of really like the "all in one" appeal of the SD 7x2 units. they seem to be wonderful in terms of useability. How does the preamp in the SD compare to the SX-M2?
If this is meant to be a stealth rig, just make sure you can stealth the SD 7x2 in all situations you plan to stealth in. You can stealth the SD7x2 in many situations but probably not as easily as with a preamp or battery boxes > R-09. If you always plan to stealth with your recorder in an external bag for instance, then you'd be fine with an SD 7x2.
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yeah, size and heat are the main concerns if I go with a 7 serries. I guess it's a trade off for ease-of-use and fewer wires/connections to worry about.
in terms of size, how much bigger is the 7x2 than a v2/3?
most of the taping I'll be doing, It can probably go in a messenger bag (though well hidden). I was hoping to find something that could pass the occasional pat-down in one of those fake beergut things.
has anyone ever run a 7x2 on a shoulder strap under a jacket? how bad was the heat?
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the SD 722 box gets hotter than blue blazes if its buried too deeply.
removed 702 from my comment. not sure why I included it ???
i think tj was gonna try to use his 722 and only write to a cf card this weekend. i think that will cut down substantially on the heat... i shouldve given him mine to use, but he said he was gonna order one himself, 'cos the one i have, that we used last week, works perfectly in the 722...
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i'm using ccm41lg's schoeps iinto a Marantz 660 acm by Oade all was all had for under 4g's I know it's only 16 bit but when a new & smaller flash deck comes out that has phantom power & the full size lockable 3 pin mic inputs i'll get the higher bit machine .. but right now it's a sweet setup for stealth .. but not to have a box or anything esle between my mics & the deck is priceless to me Cf cards are the only way no adding signal as the mini drives do add signal & they do have moving parts agin this is all I M H O
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402X>oade mod 671/p2. way under your budget. no heat, slightly larger than 722/02.
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Schoeps MKx > Sonosax SX-M2/LS2 > Edirol R-09
or
Schoeps CCM4x> Sonosax SX-M2 > Edirol R-09
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fwiw I run the 4022->722 and love it...solid single box setup, though the comments are right, it is not exactly stealthable in some of the patdown/wand type environments as it isnt exactly as concealable as a couple of small boxes. Given that Georges sax-R1/R09 setup sounds fantastic as well...all really depends on the types of environments you tape in and how "stealthy" you want to be...
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definitely. that or sub a 722 for the r9 (obviously the r9 is going to be more "stealthy"). also, if considering the NBox, go for the "+" mod (cap upgrades).
I run mk4/mk21>nbox+>722 and was running tlm170>v2>ad1000, a51tl>v3 and lsd2>v3 previously, so I know where you're coming from.
schoeps mk4 > Nbox > R-9 would be my choice and would be easily under $4k
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Schoeps MKx > Sonosax SX-M2/LS2 > Edirol R-09
or
Schoeps CCM4x> Sonosax SX-M2 > Edirol R-09
bingo
schoeps>sax has always been my fav phish tape combo
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my thoughts: used 722/702 + used DPA 402x.
BOOYA! That is it! ;D
If you need to go even stealthier I guess Sax/MP2 > MT or R09 could be good, like others have said.
Although I personally would not want to run analog in to the MT.
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you could throw an Aerco into the equation as well if you no Sonosax is available. $750 new.
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i wouldn't hold out for a used 702 - doesn't seem to be many people running them, and i don't think any have come up used yet. the 722 is slightly deeper than the v2 with the large cap battery, pretty much the same width and height though. very easy to get in if you are even the slighest bit creative. the only concern I have getting the 722 into venues is with a wand or a very very tough pat down, even then you can probably get by if you have a good bag to stash it in.
i had some bad luck with my CF card this weekend, so I can't comment for sure, but it appears so far the CF card only will significantly reduce heat. as far as running it from a strap next to your body, it depends how long you would have the unit recording for as well as how tight it is bundled up etc. but probably isn't the best choice for comfort if you are using the internal HD
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i had some bad luck with my CF card this weekend, so I can't comment for sure, but it appears so far the CF card only will significantly reduce heat.
bummer about the "issue", but, this is promising! thanks.
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=72472.0
here's a more detailed report - as soon as I can try to recover the show that had the problem im gonna reformat and try some tests again, but immediately after the show i touched ian's 722 and then touched mine and it was an increadible difference in heat, mine was barely even warm to the touch. i need to confirm though that something was actually written to the CF card though.
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Schoeps MK5 > Sonosax SX-m2/LS2 > Edirol R09
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I've pretty much settled on the 402xs as the mics... never really been a schoeps fan except in very specific situations (which I won't see too often)
I think now it's new (v2) 702 vs sax>r09. I'll probably just wait till I see a deal on the 402xs and then decide based on how much is left over. might try to find a local place that has an r09 I could play with, just to check it out.
the 702 because it's cheaper, lighter, and hopefully have better battery life and less heat.
it's interesting that it seems the 722 produces much less heat when just going to flash. I would have expected most of the heat to come from the pre/ad.
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I've pretty much settled on the 402xs as the mics... never really been a schoeps fan except in very specific situations (which I won't see too often)
I think now it's new (v2) 702 vs sax>r09. I'll probably just wait till I see a deal on the 402xs and then decide based on how much is left over. might try to find a local place that has an r09 I could play with, just to check it out.
the 702 because it's cheaper, lighter, and hopefully have better battery life and less heat.
it's interesting that it seems the 722 produces much less heat when just going to flash. I would have expected most of the heat to come from the pre/ad.
isnt the 722 only about 200 more? if so, thats worth the HD alone IMO
you could write to cf only during the show and then transfer to the 722 HD between sets/after show
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from what I've seen a 702 bottoms out around $1850 new and the 722 at $2375. if you subtract out the cost of a 4GB CF card, it's still about a $450 difference.
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yeah, size is pretty much my only concern with the 702 at this point. ease of use is a big one for me though, and the 7 serries seems to have that in spades. I might be looking at the pda setup if there were a more viable stealth A>D around.
I guess I am kinda overconfident about the stealthability of the 7 serries. I can remember sneaking the 170s, a stand, the V2, and a DAP1 past a pretty thorough bag search, and after that, The 702/722 seems kinda paltry in comparison. *Not that I'd put up with something that was even remotely that much hassle ever again*
I guess I'm trying to figure out what situations I'll be in (and how often) in which I could get the sax>r-09 in, but not the 702. at the moment I'm thinking it's not that often.
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from what I've seen a 702 bottoms out around $1850 new and the 722 at $2375. if you subtract out the cost of a 4GB CF card, it's still about a $450 difference.
So really there's a $525.00 dollar difference between the 722 and the 702.Thats alot for a 40 gig hard drive imo.I'm sure it's nice to have that HD at festivals though.
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from what I've seen a 702 bottoms out around $1850 new and the 722 at $2375. if you subtract out the cost of a 4GB CF card, it's still about a $450 difference.
So really there's a $525.00 dollar difference between the 722 and the 702.Thats alot for a 40 gig hard drive imo.I'm sure it's nice to have that HD at festivals though.
but keep in mind you're not just paying $525 for a 40g drive - its $525 that covers the drive, the hardware and software that integrates it, firmware to create files, folders, etc...
i actually really dig the fact that it has a drive -it allows me to tape a few shows without having to worry about space. and yes, for festivals its great.
Sometimes when i do a few nights of shows in a row, i don't have time nor energy to spend time and offload files from a card when i get home, in order to prepare for the next nights show. Usually i've got the munchies and then i crash. work the next day and then do it all over again. its nice being able to get home, plug the 722 in to charge, and its ready for the next show.
in order to get 40 gigs of space in CF media, you'd spend well over $525.
So factor in all of it - its more work in a way, to have the CF. Another cool thing is with the 722, you can record to both CF and HD at the same time. In a stealth situation this would prove an ideal way to do a "switcheroo" - erase the card (or give it up) and you have yourself a copy on the hard drive.
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from what I've seen a 702 bottoms out around $1850 new and the 722 at $2375. if you subtract out the cost of a 4GB CF card, it's still about a $450 difference.
So really there's a $525.00 dollar difference between the 722 and the 702.Thats alot for a 40 gig hard drive imo.I'm sure it's nice to have that HD at festivals though.
but keep in mind you're not just paying $525 for a 40g drive - its $525 that covers the drive, the hardware and software that integrates it, firmware to create files, folders, etc...
i actually really dig the fact that it has a drive -it allows me to tape a few shows without having to worry about space. and yes, for festivals its great.
Sometimes when i do a few nights of shows in a row, i don't have time nor energy to spend time and offload files from a card when i get home, in order to prepare for the next nights show. Usually i've got the munchies and then i crash. work the next day and then do it all over again. its nice being able to get home, plug the 722 in to charge, and its ready for the next show.
in order to get 40 gigs of space in CF media, you'd spend well over $525.
So factor in all of it - its more work in a way, to have the CF. Another cool thing is with the 722, you can record to both CF and HD at the same time. In a stealth situation this would prove an ideal way to do a "switcheroo" - erase the card (or give it up) and you have yourself a copy on the hard drive.
its also a RAID 1 setup
can you place md5's on a CF card ala the 722 HDD ???
if not, you could just transfer both files and then compare in EAC/Wavelab
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its also a RAID 1 setup
Eh?
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from what I've seen a 702 bottoms out around $1850 new and the 722 at $2375. if you subtract out the cost of a 4GB CF card, it's still about a $450 difference.
So really there's a $525.00 dollar difference between the 722 and the 702.Thats alot for a 40 gig hard drive imo.I'm sure it's nice to have that HD at festivals though.
but keep in mind you're not just paying $525 for a 40g drive - its $525 that covers the drive, the hardware and software that integrates it, firmware to create files, folders, etc...
i actually really dig the fact that it has a drive -it allows me to tape a few shows without having to worry about space. and yes, for festivals its great.
Sometimes when i do a few nights of shows in a row, i don't have time nor energy to spend time and offload files from a card when i get home, in order to prepare for the next nights show. Usually i've got the munchies and then i crash. work the next day and then do it all over again. its nice being able to get home, plug the 722 in to charge, and its ready for the next show.
in order to get 40 gigs of space in CF media, you'd spend well over $525.
So factor in all of it - its more work in a way, to have the CF. Another cool thing is with the 722, you can record to both CF and HD at the same time. In a stealth situation this would prove an ideal way to do a "switcheroo" - erase the card (or give it up) and you have yourself a copy on the hard drive.
its also a RAID 1 setup
can you place md5's on a CF card ala the 722 HDD ???
if not, you could just transfer both files and then compare in EAC/Wavelab
well its writing to TWo mediums the SAME data, so what do you mean by eh ???
is it a RAID 0 im thinking of?
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well its writing to TWo mediums the SAME data, so what do you mean by eh ???
is it a RAID 0 im thinking of?
Ah, I see. The 722 may write to HD and CF simultaneously, so there's redundancy. Gotcha. That doesn't really make it RAID1, but yeah, I get what you're saying - the redundancy is surely a benefit to some.
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well its writing to TWo mediums the SAME data, so what do you mean by eh ???
is it a RAID 0 im thinking of?
Ah, I see. The 722 may write to HD and CF simultaneously, so there's redundancy. Gotcha. That doesn't really make it RAID1, but yeah, I get what you're saying - the redundancy is surely a benefit to some.
exactly
actually, i *think* in the 722 manual that it says it is a RAID 1 setup
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either way i say for the extra $500 its worth it
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either way i say for the extra $500 its worth it
true that, i'll also be getting an 8GB CF card for if/when my HD decides to crap on me again like it did at moedown on night 1, i lost the whole moe set :'( wouldnt have happened if i had a CF card
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I think with the v2 upgrade on the 702, $500 is nowhere near worth it:
-160GB 2.5in HD ($175)
-usb2/firewire 2.5 in HD case ($35, I already have one, has a 30GB drive stolen from a busted laptop in it now)
-usb power pack (~$20)
4x the space for less than half price, and I have the option of bringing it or leaving it at home. you could set up an equivalent 40GB drive for less than $90. The extra bulk adds up to something about the size of a wallet, and is easier to keep cool.
to me that's more flexible, to some it's probably just extra crap they don't want to deal with. but I think it'd work pretty well in the situations where you need more space.
Also: flash is far less sensitive to heat than mechanical HDs...If the 722 gets as hot as some people say it does, I don't think I'd ever trust just recording to the HD. Have many people had HD problems?
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seems just about everyone who has commented on how worthwhile the internal HD is owns and uses a 722/744
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seems just about everyone who has commented on how worthwhile the internal HD is owns and uses a 722/744
ONE BOX vs. one box + extra cabling/batteries/space isnt worth it for me
i have gotten LAZY running mics>722 ;D
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tj has a pretty sweet setup with that v2 all cabled up in his bag. i dont know if there are pics of the setup somewhere, but if you are running a v2 > 722, you should definitely ask him what parts he is using (cables, lengths, batteries, etc.)
i just am surprised with what happened with the cf card this weekend...
the only issue i can see with the hard drive is the heat, and if you are not doing tons of festivals, this is kind of a non issue...
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tj has a pretty sweet setup with that v2 all cabled up in his bag. i dont know if there are pics of the setup somewhere, but if you are running a v2 > 722, you should definitely ask him what parts he is using (cables, lengths, batteries, etc.)
i just am surprised with what happened with the cf card this weekend...
the only issue i can see with the hard drive is the heat, and if you are not doing tons of festivals, this is kind of a non issue...
i did all good (25+ hrs) and moedown (20 or so hrs) and only ahd one problem at moedown, no clue what happened, and taboot, it happened the first nite of the festie and not after that ??? all good was WAY hotter overall and i did more recording. i think it was a firmware issue, since i was running 1.79 beta, instead of the 1.74 i ran previously
so i think it was just a random issue somehow, and wouldve been solved if i would have been running a CF card as well(which i plan to buy an 8GB CF Card)
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I need to start playing PowerBall :P
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I need to start playing PowerBall :P
Isn't being a lawyer enough? :D
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I need to start playing PowerBall :P
Isn't being a lawyer enough? :D
really?
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Have many people had HD problems?
none...been running it for over a year now....and havent heard of any HD problems from anyone of my friends that I know running it...
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Have many people had HD problems?
none...been running it for over a year now....and havent heard of any HD problems from anyone of my friends that I know running it...
what firmware you runnin ???
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Have many people had HD problems?
none...been running it for over a year now....and havent heard of any HD problems from anyone of my friends that I know running it...
what firmware you runnin ???
1.49 I believe...it is a couple of releases back
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I need to start playing PowerBall :P
Isn't being a lawyer enough? :D
Yeah but being a father and husband cancels that out >:(
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I need to start playing PowerBall :P
Isn't being a lawyer enough? :D
Yeah but being a father and husband cancels that out >:(
Well, just remember that alimony and child support won't be nice, either ;D
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I need to start playing PowerBall :P
Isn't being a lawyer enough? :D
Yeah but being a father and husband cancels that out >:(
Well, just remember that alimony and child support won't be nice, either ;D
No - I don't plan on banging the receptionist (even though she wants it) >:D
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I need to start playing PowerBall :P
Isn't being a lawyer enough? :D
Yeah but being a father and husband cancels that out >:(
Well, just remember that alimony and child support won't be nice, either ;D
No - I don't plan on banging the receptionist (even though she wants it) >:D
Does she have my number?