Topic: String quartet in a living room?

[jnorman34]

i have been asked to record a local string quartet in the living room of one of the members where they practice.  the room is about 17x23' with 8' ceiling and carpet floor.  big marble fireplace gives a little reflection, but mostly the room is quite dead sounding.  in mystudio, i might use a pair of omnis for this, but generally, omnis work better in more live spaces.  i may use an ORTF/NOS pair, but i was also thinking of just individually micing each instrument.  however, individual micing often doesnt give you a good sense of "group" playing together.  how would youse guys do this?  thanks.

[easy jim]

I would use a near-coincident main pair plus a pair of split/flanking omnis.  I'll generally pull the omnis further back from the performers than where I place the center pair, and I'll tweak the center pair until it feels/sounds just right when monitoring as a source by itself.

I've used a similar style, in a similar room, to record chamber music with much success.  Adjusting the levels and mixing in post to stereo allows for a fair amount of fine tuning to get a final result I like.  I usually end up with the omnis a fair bit lower in the mix to get it sounding 'right' to my ears.

[ilduclo]

some nice omni's should give you a great sound. dpa 4060's recco'd

[RebelRebel]

i have been asked to record a local string quartet in the living room of one of the members where they practice.  the room is about 17x23' with 8' ceiling and carpet floor.  big marble fireplace gives a little reflection, but mostly the room is quite dead sounding.  in mystudio, i might use a pair of omnis for this, but generally, omnis work better in more live spaces.  i may use an ORTF/NOS pair, but i was also thinking of just individually micing each instrument.  however, individual micing often doesnt give you a good sense of "group" playing together.  how would youse guys do this?  thanks.

definitely would NOT mic each person.. I would run a modified NOS 12 or 14 inches in between capsules, and 100-110 degrees angle of incidence and call it a day. no need for additional mics.. just a single pair, put em in the right place, where the balance is best, and off you go.  You should get a desireable result.

If mercury can get a great result with an entire orchestra using 3 mics, a string quartet should be adequately covered with 2.

[boojum]

Definitely just two mics.  You might try consulting Williams "Stereo Zoom," which is on file in this forum, for pointers on mic angles and spacing.  His are more exact than just a standard NOS or ORTF becasue they can be made to fit the exact room and sound field breadth.

Chamber music was contmeplated as being played in small spaces, room/chambers so you have a very good chance of getting an excellent recording if you do your homework.

Let us know how it comes out and post a couple of samples.


Cheers

[dean]

If they set up horseshoe style, and if you have two fig 8 mics, blumlein would work very nicely for you.  I do a bunch of blumlein with a cellist I record frequently, with various other instruments.  I find the pattern really captures the warmth of string instruments (though my 414s are practically made for string instruments).   

[RebelRebel]

If they set up horseshoe style, and if you have two fig 8 mics, blumlein would work very nicely for you.  I do a bunch of blumlein with a cellist I record frequently, with various other instruments.  I find the pattern really captures the warmth of string instruments (though my 414s are practically made for string instruments).   

I have found that Blumlein can be quite a disaster in a bad sounding room. In good acoustics, and assuming that I can fit everything within the angle of incidence, I will choose it every time. In bad acoustics, never.

[Gutbucket]

I'm another big fan of Blumlein, especially for this type of music, but not in a small, mediocre room.  I'd set up a modified NOS first with your cards like suggested above (or some other Stereozoom-ism if you can monitor well enough to make a good decision) to help focus on the players, not the sound of the room. You might try adding some very subtle ambience in post.

If I had additional tracks or another recording rig I'd also set up an omni pair in the center of the arrangement, and monitor to decide on the A-B spread (maybe somewhere between 2'-4', or tighter and use a Jecklin disc if you have one).  You can always discard the second pair, but it might work out well and give you a choice later.  Get the omnis closer in to the enter of the circle or horseshoe. 

To be clear, I'm suggesting to use one stereo pair or the other, not to mix them.  Then you can then make a decision on which to use when you can listen back in your 'known' monitoring situation.

[Roger Gustavsson]

Preferable a larger room. Recordings made in my own livingroom sounds too dry. Have made some recordings in the old (17th century) church in the neighborhood, sounds a lot better!

[DSatz]

jnorman, for one thing hi, and for another thing this is going to sound pretty bad no matter how you mike it, because room acoustics are responsible for about 80% of the result whenever you use simple (two-mike) stereo recording methods.

Basically if they want a nice natural sound, the room you described is simply not suitable for recording, unless you close-mike each player and create a totally artificial ambience and room reverberation electronically. Which you shouldn't have to do, and they shouldn't want you to do.

--best regards

[guysonic]

I've had acceptable results in a couple of musicale (house concert) scenarios, with string ensemble and a lute.
I used omnis and a j-disc baffle *amongst the players, down fairly low, at the level of the lute (to get as much of him as i could with the fiddles.
It wasn't anything of commercial value, but, it was a nice capture. I also got Max the dog barking, and whatever noises the house offered on its own.

*typical string quartet is a U shape, as an on-stage presence.
If you close the "U" with a line, you in essence, get a "D".
I was just on the line, or, within the closed "D", within the players, as an on-stage presence. The violins were standing, the cello was seated, as was the lute.
So I got a nice continuo line from the cello, nice lute presence, and a slight bit of distance from the higher freq instruments; not so direct to their note striking mechanical noises.

Close up to cello inside an orchestra recording using HRTF baffled omni array found here: http://www.sonicstudios.com/hayden.htm

Classical/Jazz/Acoustic Sampler - Recorded by Jim Dukey using same HRTF mic array of Cello, Violin, Saxophone, Duets, Trio + Big Band: DOWNLOAD this file: http://74.208.10.48/mp3/dukeyguy.mp3

Not great sounding live room with soft acoustic guitar, acoustic bass, and mandolin musicians offset (non-symmetrical mic/musician placement recordings) made with same HRTF mic array with session photo found on page: http://www.sonicstudios.com/nobanjo.htm

When room is a problem and using stereo array mic , I tend to use 'thirds' positioning relative to walls, and sometimes ceiling to make the best of a poor ambient.  If possible, encourage musicians not to be playing in center of room, but offset to have nonsymmetrical to walls placements.

[intpseeker]

U-shape and Healy in the middle of the U. I've had good results...or as good as the room will allow.

[WiFiJeff]

Next to pianists the most frequent ensembles I get at the weekly chamber series I record are string quartets, have two to do this week and next.  My setup is generally governed by the space and where the players choose to locate on the stage.  The hall is a geodesic dome with stadium seating used mostly as a lecture hall, center aisle the main stage approach, very good sound but brighter when empty than when the audience files in.  The instrumentalist area comes right up to the front row of seats, where I set up.  I can't pull the mic stand too far back or I'll block the aisle, so when the quartet decides to sit forward I have to set up pretty close to right in front of them.  This makes the ratio of the distance to the second violin and cello versus the viola and first violin more extreme than when I can step back a bit, and creates a bit of a balance problem.  I generally do two separate stereo recordings, when I have time for setup.  One is omnis on a Jecklin disk (mostly Josephson C617s with LD Gefell caps), the other Blumlein (AKG C426).  Both of these produce very nice recordings, but friends with highend audio playback almost invariably prefer the Blumlein.  On good headphones I would say this is also the case for the stereo image, but the omni sound is more accurate ("clinical" is the description if you want to diss it).  I would hesitate to try the Blumlein in a room with poor acoustics, though, for reasons others have given.  If what you hear in the room is tolerable, the Jecklin/omni route will reproduce it well, otherwise cardioids in ORTF or DIN (but I think you'll have to be careful in placing and aiming them to avoid balance problems with the closer violin and viola versus 2nd violin and cello).

Jeff