Topic: Large Diaphragm mic positions?

[princecaspian]

How would you set up 2 Large Diaphragm mics in a concert taping situation?

Do you use the same positions as you would with a small diaphragm i.e. ORTF, NOS, XY, etc.

Thanks,

Matt

[darby]

are you talking about multi pattern mics?
if so, yes you would...
but you might try various setups to see which you prefer
I ran AKG 414s for 3 years and tried alot of different things
for Cardiod I liked DIN (20 cm @ 90 degrees)
never really liked ORTF (17 cm @ 110 degrees) indoors for cardiod and outdoors I ran Subcardiod
for Subcardiod I liked NOS (30 cm @ 90 degrees)
for Hyper I liked DINa (17 cm @ 90 degrees)
I really liked the Figure 8 running Blumlein (0 cm @ 90 degrees)
but you need to have a quiet crowd and be fairly close
there are people here that like Omnis (wide spaced or Jecklin disc)
I personally don't like to use Omnis

but like I said... try different things and have fun!

[princecaspian]

Yeah, maybe something like a Neumann TLM 170 R [   http://www.neumann.com/?lang=en&id=current_microphones&cid=tlm170_description    ]

Would setting them up just facing the stage (AB pattern?) be sacrilege/ineffective?

[darby]

Yeah, maybe something like a Neumann TLM 170 R [   http://www.neumann.com/?lang=en&id=current_microphones&cid=tlm170_reports    ]
Would setting them up just facing the stage (AB pattern?) be sacrilege/ineffective?

depending on the pattern and how far away you are that would WORK
but you may like to put some angle between the caps
no 1 configuration works for all situations... try different stuff and see what YOU like best
I'm sure someone else will mention the Stereophonic Zoom
http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,119057.0.html
read that and see what you think as well

[dean]

Yeah, maybe something like a Neumann TLM 170 R [   http://www.neumann.com/?lang=en&id=current_microphones&cid=tlm170_reports    ]
Would setting them up just facing the stage (AB pattern?) be sacrilege/ineffective?

depending on the pattern and how far away you are that would WORK
but you may like to put some angle between the caps
no 1 configuration works for all situations... try different stuff and see what YOU like best
I'm sure someone else will mention the Stereophonic Zoom
http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,119057.0.html
read that and see what you think as well

Good call on stereophonic zoom, Mike.

With AB set up you may not get the stereo separation you'd like.  But as Mike says, your ears are the boss.  He's also entirely correct when he says it depends on the situation, and that you've got the same options with LDs as with SDs.

Unlike Mike, I LOVE running omni LDs, indoors or out, whenever I can get away with it.   

[chrisnubar]

almost straight ahead, seperated if possible, and the closer to the stage the better, like the fifth row. but that's not really possible. they will get whaled unless you have a bodyguard.

[Brian Skalinder]

I always liked my C414B-ULS and -XLS coincident, with included angles appropriate to the situation.  Never t particularly cared for near-coincident or split, unless it was split omnis on-stage.

[Gutbucket]

The basic Stereo Zoom technique is using less angle between mics when either the distance between them is larger or when choosing a more directional pattern.  Conversely you'd use more angle the closer together they are or the less directional the pattern.   There are various reasons to choose different combinations along that continuum.  That's the general approach regardless of mic type. 

Of course, the particularities of the mics and personal preference are more important.

[page]

I always liked my C414B-ULS and -XLS coincident, with included angles appropriate to the situation.  Never t particularly cared for near-coincident or split, unless it was split omnis on-stage.

I've heard similar sentiments from at least one other person. I wonder what makes those specifically (more) palatable in coincident configurations?

[DSatz]

Prof. Williams' charts ("Stereophonic Zoom," etc.) are based on the assumption that the polar pattern of the microphones is consistent throughout the frequency range. That assumption is generally not true for large-diaphragm microphones, unfortunately. Partly that's due to their size (the microphone disturbs the sound field beginning in the upper midrange) and partly that's due to the fact that nearly all large-diaphragm microphones use dual-diaphragm capsules.

One person in this thread mentioned Blumlein--that's perhaps the best case among the well-known setups that have catchy names, in that a figure-8 pattern can still be reasonably well maintained across a reasonable part of the range. On the other hand the constraints of setup geometry still apply; Blumlein can only capture a relatively narrow physical stage width, which often would mean that you'd have to place it pretty far away from the sound sources, and then you'd be picking up too much room sound relative to the direct sound. Blumlein is ideal on paper, and occasionally in the real world as well--but unfortunately only occasionally.

The A/B approach may actually have more to recommend it than the usual coincident or closely-spaced approaches that work well with small, single-diaphragm microphones, but be prepared for some trial and error ...

--best regards

[stevetoney]

I'm just moving on from u89i's, but I agree completely with Brian's post above.  With the u89's, I didn't think they sounded nearly as good (as other configs) in the DIN, DIN, or ORTF configurations.  I'm not sure why, they just didn't.  In XY, they sounded alot better indoors using the directional mic patterns.  However, my favorite and the best sounding patterns were mid-side at the stage lip either indoor or outdoor, blumlein from DFC to FOB outdoors (easily the best sounding), and split omni from DFC outdoor.  When splitting omni's, the mics needed to be at least 3 feet apart before they started sounding best.  I'm not sure why the dynamic interaction between the mics is such that putting them side-by-side doesn't sound as good as the other configurations, but the proof is in the pudding as they say...it's just a fact that's how it is.