Topic: Zoom F3

[Ozpeter]

I guess that it will be necessary to always slide one way to record, and then the other way immediately to hold.  Maybe they thought that an accidental press of the stop button would be more likely compared to an accidental slide of the record control.  But it does seem a bit risky...

[Gutbucket]

Check the system menu structure to see if there is a setting for what happens when pressing (or sliding) record while already recording. 

Just thinking it might be similar to F8 where the Play button can be set to pause or mark, or pause + mark, as well as being set separately for recording and playback.  I think the Record button function can be modified as well, maybe starting a new recording verses pausing or something, but I can't recall the details of that one.

[cd2go]

Check the system menu structure to see if there is a setting for what happens when pressing (or sliding) record while already recording. 

Just thinking it might be similar to F8 where the Play button can be set to pause or mark, or pause + mark, as well as being set separately for recording and playback.  I think the Record button function can be modified as well, maybe starting a new recording verses pausing or something, but I can't recall the details of that one.

I don’t see that there is unfortunately. Is this something that firmware is able to address?

[darby]

finally got around to using it last night
I set the the display for 4x on each channel for the opener and I ended up going OVER by about 2dB, but it was fine after lowering in post
for the main act, I ran the the display at 1x and had to raise levels in post about 5dB (Schoeps mk22/NBobs > NBox Elite)

SO THE DISPLAY IS BASICALLY A VOLUME CONTROL

I really like the ease of operation and the small size, plus it didn't use too many lights on my ANKER

[cd2go]

Good to hear; yes the simplicity and size are quite appealing, thanks for the update!

[One Cylinder]

How’s the A/D converter on the F3?

finally got around to using it last night
I set the the display for 4x on each channel for the opener and I ended up going OVER by about 2dB, but it was fine after lowering in post
for the main act, I ran the the display at 1x and had to raise levels in post about 5dB (Schoeps mk22/NBobs > NBox Elite)

SO THE DISPLAY IS BASICALLY A VOLUME CONTROL

I really like the ease of operation and the small size, plus it didn't use too many lights on my ANKER

[voltronic]

finally got around to using it last night
I set the the display for 4x on each channel for the opener and I ended up going OVER by about 2dB, but it was fine after lowering in post
for the main act, I ran the the display at 1x and had to raise levels in post about 5dB (Schoeps mk22/NBobs > NBox Elite)

SO THE DISPLAY IS BASICALLY A VOLUME CONTROL

I really like the ease of operation and the small size, plus it didn't use too many lights on my ANKER

So my interpretation of the block diagram was correct; the F3 "waveform amplification" works just like the F6 when track knobs are set to REC LEVEL mode.

Thanks for the report! I'm thinking if all goes well, the F3 may become a popular recommendation for a compact one-box recording setup.

[gaijin]

Mine turned up from B&H yesterday.  As mentioned previously, it is significantly smaller than the pictures made me think it would be.  Setup was simple / did not require manual.  Build quality is about on par with similar devices in this price range, although as mentioned, the battery door does feel rickety / cheap like you'd find on a child's toy.

I'm going to try to get out to a small jazz club this weekend with either Line Audio CM4 or OM1 fed directly into the F3 and will share a sample when available.

I am particularly curious about how "good" it will sound as compared to what I get out of CM4 direct XLR in to my MixPre3-ii - which I love.  For anyone with experience with the Zooms, any predictions?  I anticipate it is going to be a bit more bright / harsh and not as warm, which seems to be a unique quality of the MixPre line as compared to my previous experiences with Zoom devices.  Obviously there will obviously be a bit more preamp noise, but I'm guessing that will be largely insignificant in our applications.

I do note that some are using these line-in with a USBPre providing amplification.  To me this significantly reduces the utility of the device - if I need to have something like a USBPre in front I'd just as soon use my MixPre3-ii instead as it is a smaller footprint and not any better from a security perspective.

Will report back soon.

[voltronic]

Mine turned up from B&H yesterday.  As mentioned previously, it is significantly smaller than the pictures made me think it would be.  Setup was simple / did not require manual.  Build quality is about on par with similar devices in this price range, although as mentioned, the battery door does feel rickety / cheap like you'd find on a child's toy.

I'm going to try to get out to a small jazz club this weekend with either Line Audio CM4 or OM1 fed directly into the F3 and will share a sample when available.

I am particularly curious about how "good" it will sound as compared to what I get out of CM4 direct XLR in to my MixPre3-ii - which I love.  For anyone with experience with the Zooms, any predictions?  I anticipate it is going to be a bit more bright / harsh and not as warm, which seems to be a unique quality of the MixPre line as compared to my previous experiences with Zoom devices.  Obviously there will obviously be a bit more preamp noise, but I'm guessing that will be largely insignificant in our applications.

I do note that some are using these line-in with a USBPre providing amplification.  To me this significantly reduces the utility of the device - if I need to have something like a USBPre in front I'd just as soon use my MixPre3-ii instead as it is a smaller footprint and not any better from a security perspective.

Will report back soon.

Looking forward to your report. If it uses the same preamps as the F6, I would be surprised if you found it to be bright or harsh. I record with my CM3s direct into my F6 more than any other combination. I don't have a MixPre-II to compare against, though. I agree that using an external preamp with this kind of defeats the purpose.

As for preamp noise, I doubt you'd notice any. Gain on the F3 is fixed at a fairly low level (again, assuming the F6 preamp design is followed). Your mic self-noise would almost certainly be higher than any noise from the preamp.

[gaijin]

Had my first time out with the device last weekend.  in a very small jazz hall (An Die Musik in Baltimore).  Band was the Paul Carr Legacy Quartet.

Recorded with Line Audio OM1 (48V) in Healy Technique, mounted to a stationary "object" @ DFC, approximately 2 feet away from stage lip and about 3 ft high with no obstructions.  Show was about an hour and a half and I appeared to have about 50% battery left when done (but recording was inadvertently stopped for a while, see point below).

Overall experience with the device was good, however the slide start / stop record thing is decidedly poor.  Especially in a  situation, given the very minor amount of force required to activate the slide function, there is a significant potential for a minor bump or even cables settling in a bag to stop recording inadvertently.  This occurred during this outing, and I lost a portion of the show on this device as a result.  Not a fan.  A simple update requiring a 2 second hold slide would greatly reduce what seems to be a pretty significant risk to me (have a high number of  shows under my belt and have a well worked out "system" - in spite of that this happened to me on the first outing).  I can't recall the last time I've had an issue with a recorder being stopped when I was able to check it (other than perhaps a dead battery).

Re: Tone - To my ear it is definitely brighter and lacks some of the warmth I am used to in this hall with these mics wired into a SD MixPre3/6-ii.  I would say there is plenty of bass there and the recording is pleasing enough, but something is off and weighted toward what I would describe as bright as compared to several previous recordings with the same rig into the MixPre.  Certainly "correctable" with EQ in post but it does reinforce my affection for the "out of the box" SD sound. Obviously I need some more shows under my belt with the device to corroborate these initial thoughts.   These things are hard to nail down - it could be entirely placebo effect.

As mentioned previously by myself and others, the size of this thing is tiny and this is its biggest asset.  Since I purchased my first fully digital recorder (Sony PCM-D1) I have been longing for something very small, with no (inevitably poor) internal mics adding to the footprint, and including XLR connectivity as I have always loved the simplicity of a single reliable cable in between the each mic and the recorder.  Lately, after using other 32-bit devices, this requirement has also made it on to my list.  Especially for  or even semi- the ability to completely ignore gain settings on the device has been a game changer for both me and my setup / ease of deployment.  With those requirements in mind, this device comes closest to a realization of that dream, and as a result I will likely be using this for any place where  and security is a concern. 

At some other venues I frequent where it's not explicitly open taping but more of a "be discrete" policy, I think I would still be more likely to bring out the SD as it is more tonally pleasing direct from the device (to my taste) and the slight increase in size doesn't matter to me as I'm not trying to crotch the thing.

I'll report back again after another go at it this weekend in a large opera hall setting from FOB with the CM4s.  Eager to see how it performs with those mics as well.

Hope this is useful others.  Let me know if you have any questions.  Raw from device WAV sample of a track can be found grabbed here for a week: https://we.tl/t-1IxD6OpCMm

[Ozpeter]

I look forward to hearing this sample later, thanks for posting that and your account of your real-world experience.  I suspect that Zoom did not think in terms of this kind of taping when designing the device and that's why the obvious problems with the record slider (in that situation) were not encountered (presumably) in their testing.  Did you have the switch in the "hold" position, meaning that it was pushed from "hold" all the way to "stop recording?"  Without consulting photos of the device I strongly suspect that someone will come out with a third party physical device to protect the switch from inadvertent operation - or that they will fix the problem with a firmware update (for instance, requiring a two button operation to stop - a long hold of the button might well not have fixed the problem in the bag you encountered if indeed a cable was resting on the switch).

[Edited to add that I'm listening to the sample right now - nice! - but I felt the need to lift the upper frequencies somewhat, as the cymbal sound in particular sounded a bit veiled to me.  But I'm listening with 73 year old ears... yesterday they were only 72 years old... sigh!]

[gaijin]

Thanks for the feedback / thoughts / ideas.  It's my pleasure to share my experience, glad it's helpful.

Few points / thoughts:

• The record switch was locked when I placed the device.  It doesn't take much force at all to disengage the lock.
• Good point about the long hold being shortsighted - it is possible that the cable scenario would still cause the recording to stop.
• I'm not sure what happened but I would suspect that after deploying said object something settled just the right way to slide the switch.
• I did buy the BT module for connecting to phone / monitoring - this would have helped catch this quickly but unfortunately the previously promised March launch for the Android software appears to be vaporware at this point - now saying "Spring 2022"
• Interesting feedback on the equalization - can't say it was unexpected.  There are so many variables affecting what is heard (not the least of which is the playback hardware), so it's certainly within reason that your observation is the exact opposite of mine!  One more reminder not to get too heavy handed with EQ and stay more purist, I suppose.

Lastly, a belated Happy Birthday to you!  I'm hoping I still have ears to speak of by the time I am 73!  Glad to see you're still in the game.

[vwmule]

 "given the very minor amount of force required to activate the slide function, there is a significant potential for a minor bump or even cables settling in a bag to stop recording inadvertently."

We are not target audience but this design flaw is universal and inexcusable.

[gaijin]

"given the very minor amount of force required to activate the slide function, there is a significant potential for a minor bump or even cables settling in a bag to stop recording inadvertently."

We are not target audience but this design flaw is universal and inexcusable.

It's particularly frustrating that they felt the need to "improve" an existing, field proven, verified working design.  Why the typical approach of a slightly recessed record button and a dedicated lock switch needed a redesign is not clear to me and worse, nothing seems to have been made better in the process.  The German notion of "schlimmbesserung" comes to straight to mind.

[Ozpeter]

Thanks for the feedback / thoughts / ideas.  It's my pleasure to share my experience, glad it's helpful.

...

Lastly, a belated Happy Birthday to you!  I'm hoping I still have ears to speak of by the time I am 73!  Glad to see you're still in the game.

Thanks!  I'm chiefly into video these days.  But the F3 tempted me until I saw that it doesn't support M/S monitoring.  I do have the F1 - that has an option to lock the buttons during recording, and you have to press "stop" and "record" at the same time to stop recording and unlock.  I would have thought that would be the way to fix this problem on the F3 (presumably it doesn't have that option hidden in the menus somewhere?   Given its family resemblance to the F1, it would have been the obvious thing to do).