Topic: Zoom F3

[mcfoster]

Well, as amazon would have it, I have a 4 pack in my hands already. I charged them, and am gonna throw them in and see how long I can record for tonight or tomorrow before they die. I am curious.

[mcfoster]

Well, I tested the batteries with my actives last night. AKG CK1X>Naiant Actives>F3 recording road/ambient noise outside, not sure if SPL's effect drain at all. It was up and running at 4 hours, and was not at 4.5 hours. So for me, one set=1 Set , 2 sets=2sets. A festival if I paid attention, and had a good sized battery to charge them from would be fine with 4 batteries I think as they charge in about 3 hours... Or I could just run off usb-c

[eman]

I got an Energizer UE 20068 20AH charger pack, not high enough amperage to power a laptop but a lot of juice. I tested at High Sierra. The first night left me aghast- 2 sets and it was down to 26%. But then for the rest of the festival after I charged it all the way up it only bumped down to 86% at the lowest for the remainder of the sets and topping off a couple of times. I'd charge my phone off of it too and that didn't make a dent. So I think that first night was a faulty first charge up and things will be fine after this. It takes quite a few hours to charge up. The USB C connector did not come out and you can tell if it does because then the battery charge icon comes on. There is no icon to indicate external power is good- if your screen is up and there's no icon that is your signal that external power is working. I got it because I didn't have time to wait and I oppose Bezos's take over of the world. 
https://www.bestbuy.com/site/energizer-max-20000mah-high-speed-universal-portable-charger-power-bank-with-lcd-display-for-apple-android-google-usb-devices-black/6498909.p?skuId=6498909
As far as batteries with internal charging circuitry, I'd not trust that. I charge my AAs and AAAs with a Powerex charger that you can program the charge/discharge rate and cycle twice to get them perfectly topped off. When you do that you know what's in it because the charger put it there and kept track of it. My program is: Cycle>700 charge>500 discharge> 2 cycles. I've tried single cycle and don't get the same amp hours loaded up. The numbers are remarkably consistent but it tends to call out cheap AAs as junk. That hasn't happened with better batteries.
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1572727-REG/powerex_mh_c9000pro_c9000pro_professional_charger_analyzer.html
I had zero recording errors for the festival and got it looks like about a dozen sets recorded. There's a bunch up on Archive, and the rest of the team did a good job as well.

[ol' dirty taper]

I tested a set of eneloops and only got about 2.25 hours using a pair of Schoeps mk21's with 48V phantom used bluetooth to set the recording then it lost connection. Second try... only 24 minutes with the beyer ck930s and the cv900 preamps + the bluetooth on monitoring.

I have an Ikea Solbana 10000 mAh power bank that is just barely too wide to fit into the back of this unit that I'll probably run with it. *Update on the Solbana, it ran the power hungry ck930s with bluetooth on for just under 17 hours.

Has any progress been made to remove the metal frame on the front?

[eman]

I have not made another attempt. I've been a bit busy and I haven't needed it for a stealth unit yet. Encouraging others to try but understand if you don't want to. I safely got mine to where the two halves were separating but catching on the battery spring, and at that point there would probably be some connectors and wires to fold/stuff. Hopefully then some screws to unfasten the frame would present themselves.

[shpy]

I get 4 Hours with eneloop PRO, with two SE8 mics

[sdbirder]

Are there any decent mini cable free mics that plug directly into the XLR ports?

I recently got my F3 and an Audio-Technica BP4025 stereo mic and LOVING it, but it's a little slow to setup, especially for birding. An all in one setup would be great for quick recordings before the bird flies away.

[commongrounder]

This little recorder is just crying out for a dedicated plug-in stereo mic. There has been discussion on several forums about this idea. There is the CEntrance PM1 mic set (less than 200 bucks) designed for their own recorder. They will fit the F3, but due to the orientation of the XLR plug, you can’t get an X/Y orientation, just an A-B. Also, the PM1 has a self-noise of 20db(A). Comparing that to the BP4025s 14db(A), you will hear more noise (hiss) in the background. Whether this is acceptable will depend on how quiet the source audio you are trying to capture is. 20db(A) is too noisy for nature recording, IMHO. Maybe some company will make a stereo mic head with low noise cardioid capsules like the 4025, plus an attached pair of XLR connectors that fit the spacing and orientation of the F3, creating a compact unit. I’m sure there will be some DYI mic designs showing up, given some time.

[Ozpeter]

At last someone makes a recorder without built in mics - and then... 

I'm slightly surprised that it doesn't accept even Zoom's own clip on mics like the F1 does.  Maybe they could make a simple adapter which converts the XLR connectors into their own proprietary connector.  Or maybe a 3rd party could do that.  Then you could connect their MS mic to the front.  No, wait a minute, it doesn't support MS mics...

[commongrounder]

Yeah, I know. This is a tapers forum and stealth is a priority.  Apologies for the tangent into the “outside” world!
That zoom proprietary connector is intriguing.  The modules clearly have active electronics in them, as well as the mic capsules, so there has to be contacts for supplying power. If an adapter were to be made, the only source of power would be the phantom supplies through the XLRs, and I’m doubtful there is enough there to run the circuits. It would help if there was publicly available info about the modules internals.
It really isn’t true that the F3 doesn’t support mid-side mics, it just doesn’t support monitoring in decoded m-s. I use my F3 with my mid-side mic setup all the time. I just can’t listen to the decoded audio until it gets loaded into my computer later on. I suspect there will be a firmware update along the way that will add mid-side functions (at least monitoring, if not decoded recording). I’m sure Zoom is well aware of it by now.

[voltronic]

This little recorder is just crying out for a dedicated plug-in stereo mic. There has been discussion on several forums about this idea. There is the CEntrance PM1 mic set (less than 200 bucks) designed for their own recorder. They will fit the F3, but due to the orientation of the XLR plug, you can’t get an X/Y orientation, just an A-B. Also, the PM1 has a self-noise of 20db(A). Comparing that to the BP4025s 14db(A), you will hear more noise (hiss) in the background. Whether this is acceptable will depend on how quiet the source audio you are trying to capture is. 20db(A) is too noisy for nature recording, IMHO. Maybe some company will make a stereo mic head with low noise cardioid capsules like the 4025, plus an attached pair of XLR connectors that fit the spacing and orientation of the F3, creating a compact unit. I’m sure there will be some DYI mic designs showing up, given some time.

I wouldn't be so sure that mics with 20 dB self noise are unsuitable. I don't do nature recording, but I do classical recording all the time with my 4061s which are rated 26 dB self noise, and the mics never draw attention to themselves. Many others who use the 4060/4061 as their main pair can attest to this. The noisefloor of your venue, even if it is a quiet concert hall or secluded location in the woods, is likely going to have its own noisefloor.

[Gutbucket]

Yep. Depends on the situation.  I use DPA 4060 with a self-noise a few dB lower than 4061 for classical and nature recording and have never had a mic self-noise problem with them for any live classical performance recording.  I have noticed self-noise at times in some nature recording situations.  Difficult to compare though, as some nature recordings tend to be used at higher than normal playback levels making the recording's noise-floor apparent regardless of its source, due to a limited overall dynamic range and everything happening down at the quiet end of that range.  Sure, other nature recordings exhibit extreme dynamics (close thunder storm recordings for example) and thus cannot be amplified as much (without limiting or compression), so the the noise floor remains below perception.  Of course, classical recordings vary widely in dynamics too (delicate small ensemble chamber music vs big bombastic symphonic works) but in general tend not to be played back significantly louder than the original performance. 

[Gutbucket]

I'm slightly surprised that it doesn't accept even Zoom's own clip on mics like the F1 does.

Not having used the F3 myself, I just assumed it would had the capability to accept the same directly-attachable Zoom mics that are compatible with all other F-series recorders.

That said, I've no idea of the quality of the directly-attachable Zoom microphones.

[commongrounder]

This little recorder is just crying out for a dedicated plug-in stereo mic. There has been discussion on several forums about this idea. There is the CEntrance PM1 mic set (less than 200 bucks) designed for their own recorder. They will fit the F3, but due to the orientation of the XLR plug, you can’t get an X/Y orientation, just an A-B. Also, the PM1 has a self-noise of 20db(A). Comparing that to the BP4025s 14db(A), you will hear more noise (hiss) in the background. Whether this is acceptable will depend on how quiet the source audio you are trying to capture is. 20db(A) is too noisy for nature recording, IMHO. Maybe some company will make a stereo mic head with low noise cardioid capsules like the 4025, plus an attached pair of XLR connectors that fit the spacing and orientation of the F3, creating a compact unit. I’m sure there will be some DYI mic designs showing up, given some time.

I wouldn't be so sure that mics with 20 dB self noise are unsuitable. I don't do nature recording, but I do classical recording all the time with my 4061s which are rated 26 dB self noise, and the mics never draw attention to themselves. Many others who use the 4060/4061 as their main pair can attest to this. The noisefloor of your venue, even if it is a quiet concert hall or secluded location in the woods, is likely going to have its own noisefloor.

I agree that the 4060/4061s are great sounding mics. I believe audibility of self-noise depends on the amount of masking the intended sound source provides. I admit to being spoiled; my main soundscape recording rig uses Sennheiser MKH8020s with a self-noise of 10db(A). I have a pair of Earthworks QTCs (21db(A)) that I’ve tried for nature recording. They sound great, but the noise is intrusive. I hate using noise reduction software, so I stick with the Sennheisers (which work great with the F3, BTW)

[sdbirder]

This little recorder is just crying out for a dedicated plug-in stereo mic. There has been discussion on several forums about this idea. There is the CEntrance PM1 mic set (less than 200 bucks) designed for their own recorder. They will fit the F3, but due to the orientation of the XLR plug, you can’t get an X/Y orientation, just an A-B. Also, the PM1 has a self-noise of 20db(A). Comparing that to the BP4025s 14db(A), you will hear more noise (hiss) in the background. Whether this is acceptable will depend on how quiet the source audio you are trying to capture is. 20db(A) is too noisy for nature recording, IMHO. Maybe some company will make a stereo mic head with low noise cardioid capsules like the 4025, plus an attached pair of XLR connectors that fit the spacing and orientation of the F3, creating a compact unit. I’m sure there will be some DYI mic designs showing up, given some time.

I wouldn't be so sure that mics with 20 dB self noise are unsuitable. I don't do nature recording, but I do classical recording all the time with my 4061s which are rated 26 dB self noise, and the mics never draw attention to themselves. Many others who use the 4060/4061 as their main pair can attest to this. The noisefloor of your venue, even if it is a quiet concert hall or secluded location in the woods, is likely going to have its own noisefloor.

I agree that the 4060/4061s are great sounding mics. I believe audibility of self-noise depends on the amount of masking the intended sound source provides. I admit to being spoiled; my main soundscape recording rig uses Sennheiser MKH8020s with a self-noise of 10db(A). I have a pair of Earthworks QTCs (21db(A)) that I’ve tried for nature recording. They sound great, but the noise is intrusive. I hate using noise reduction software, so I stick with the Sennheisers (which work great with the F3, BTW)

Thanks everyone for the ideas! I'm definitely not a fan of noise, so 20db(A) would be out of the question. While perusing Google Images for mics I ran across the  Wildtronics Micro Mic XLR Microphone and ordered one for $91.60 shipped. Small, low noise 14db(A) and it looks like it'll plug directly in for quick mono recordings. I can switch to my BP4025 if time permits. I'll let you know how it works out. https://www.wildtronics.com/micro-xlr.html