Become a Site Supporter and Never see Ads again!

Author Topic: Building a full 007 taping rig from scratch in 2022  (Read 1602 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline fandelive

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Taperssection Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 476
  • I'm a llama!
Building a full 007 taping rig from scratch in 2022
« on: June 19, 2022, 03:36:05 PM »
Hello,

Some guy (I never met, actually) listened to a couple of my tapes and just asked me to help him building a 007 taping rig from scratch. He told me he could manage to secure a spot between the audience and the stage, where press-photographers are allowed to stand during shows (I think it's called "the rail"), in an almost 2000 capacity theater which name starts with wilt and ends with ern. Please don't name it.

He wants to tape high SPLs rock concerts.

Considering the spot and the fact that he's totally new to taping, I adviced him to get a pair of omnidirectional mics (which will be easier to use for a newbie and probably the best choice regarding his spot... Right???) and to mount them at head level, close to his ears. He told me he was ready to spend a good amount of $$$ to get great results, so I suggested him two options:

  • Core Sound High End Binaural Set (using DPA 4061 - I INSISTED on the fact that he absolutely wants LOW SENSIVITY caps, whatever the mics). I know there would be cheaper alternatives if you can find a second hand pair with micro dot connectors and someone who is willing to build a stereo 3.5 jack Y adapter, but I can't supervise the whole thing and you need both caps to be matched and all that kind of trouble...
  • Church Audio CA-14's omnis (for a budget alternative - warned him about the building delay)

I then adviced him to get a 9V battery box to power the mics (either Core Sound and Church Audio will provide that). I wonder if it's a good suggestion since he'll probably get very low levels if he uses line-in. What do you think?

I don't know about the CA-14's (never owned a pair of those), but I've been experiencing DPA 4061's > 9V battery box > Tascam dr-2D line-in (levels set at 95 aka unity gain) and levels barely reached the -20dB threshold.
I've only recently replaced the battery box with a Church Audio CA-9100 preamp (knob set at 9 o'clock) and managed to make the levels peak at -3dB.

Before that, I've experienced a pair of 4.7k modded MM-HLSC-1's > Church Audio CA-9100 preamp (knob pushed to the max)  > Edirol R09-HR line-in (levels set at unity gain) and always got great results.

I've come to the point where I perfectly know my gear and don't have to think anymore about how to combine and set everything up to get great results.

So I question myself... A battery box is way easier to use than a preamp for a newbie, since you only have to control your levels on the recorder. But can you get decent results with a battery box powered low sensivity caps?

As for the recorder: I'm only experienced with devices that are no longer available (Edirol R-09HR and Tascam dr-2D), so I don't even know what to suggest for that point (and, again, I can't supervise the whole thing). He'll probably need help on how the set the recorded up.

I'd like to suggest a rig that's easy to manipulate and safe to set up, so he can get at least decent distorted-free results. Something he won't have to think too much about, like: mics > battery box > recorder <mic-in or line-in> <levels set at unity gain> > decent results > end of the story.

...but is it even possible?

Any suggestion is welcome as I'll probably point my young padawn to this thread :)
Thanks !

-fandelive
« Last Edit: June 19, 2022, 03:41:03 PM by fandelive »
Mics : Sony ECM-717, MM-HLSC-1 (4.7k mod), SP-CMC-4 (at853), 2x DPA4060, 2x DPA4061
Battery box : SP-SPSB-6524 w/bass roll-off filter, MM-CBM-1
Preamp : Church Audio CA-9100
Recorders : Sony MZR-700PC, Edirol R-09HR, Tascam DR-2d

Offline daspyknows

  • Complaint Dept.
  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 8704
  • Gender: Male
  • Don't ask, don't tell, don't get get caught
Re: Building a full 007 taping rig from scratch in 2022
« Reply #1 on: June 19, 2022, 03:45:13 PM »
Schoeps MK4 actives babynbox Tascam DR-2D, Edirol R-9 or Sony A10.  Can provide lots of samples and a number of other tapers can do that also.

Offline fandelive

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Taperssection Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 476
  • I'm a llama!
Re: Building a full 007 taping rig from scratch in 2022
« Reply #2 on: June 19, 2022, 04:27:52 PM »
Schoeps MK4 actives babynbox Tascam DR-2D, Edirol R-9 or Sony A10.

Well, I wouldn't exactly call that a starter rig  ;D
You've been actively taping for a long time to the point you became a legend.

What would be the approximative total cost of your rig?
« Last Edit: June 19, 2022, 04:33:31 PM by fandelive »
Mics : Sony ECM-717, MM-HLSC-1 (4.7k mod), SP-CMC-4 (at853), 2x DPA4060, 2x DPA4061
Battery box : SP-SPSB-6524 w/bass roll-off filter, MM-CBM-1
Preamp : Church Audio CA-9100
Recorders : Sony MZR-700PC, Edirol R-09HR, Tascam DR-2d

Offline DavidPuddy

  • Trade Count: (15)
  • Taperssection All-Star
  • ****
  • Posts: 1424
Re: Building a full 007 taping rig from scratch in 2022
« Reply #3 on: June 19, 2022, 05:34:46 PM »
Schoeps MK4 actives babynbox Tascam DR-2D, Edirol R-9 or Sony A10.

Well, I wouldn't exactly call that a starter rig  ;D
You've been actively taping for a long time to the point you became a legend.

What would be the approximative total cost of your rig?

Less than 2500 can be done with used gear

Offline daspyknows

  • Complaint Dept.
  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 8704
  • Gender: Male
  • Don't ask, don't tell, don't get get caught
Re: Building a full 007 taping rig from scratch in 2022
« Reply #4 on: June 19, 2022, 06:27:25 PM »
Schoeps MK4 actives babynbox Tascam DR-2D, Edirol R-9 or Sony A10.

Well, I wouldn't exactly call that a starter rig  ;D
You've been actively taping for a long time to the point you became a legend.

What would be the approximative total cost of your rig?

If purchasing used about $2300-$2700.   Not a starter rig but saw spending a good amount of money so figured he wanted to go all in.  If he changes his mind he can sell for what we paid for it too.

Offline nulldogmas

  • Trade Count: (6)
  • Taperssection All-Star
  • ****
  • Posts: 1305
    • How I Escaped My Uncertain Fate
Re: Building a full 007 taping rig from scratch in 2022
« Reply #5 on: June 20, 2022, 12:16:15 AM »
AT-853 omnis would be a good low(ish)-cost substitute for the CA-14s. DPAs will sound better, Schoeps even better, but as you note those are pricier.

How is the sound from that location? I can't tell if there are fill speakers along the stage lip; if not, he's going to be at risk of having all the PA sound (i.e., the vocals) go over his head.

Offline fandelive

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Taperssection Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 476
  • I'm a llama!
Re: Building a full 007 taping rig from scratch in 2022
« Reply #6 on: June 20, 2022, 01:05:26 AM »
How is the sound from that location? I can't tell if there are fill speakers along the stage lip; if not, he's going to be at risk of having all the PA sound (i.e., the vocals) go over his head.

I saw a video he shot with his smartphone from that spot. Couldn't see any fill speakers (if I'm ever able to recognize one when I see it) but it sounded like a decent balanced mono mix. Judging by the PA speakers only, yes, the sound would go over his head. Definitely. That's also why I recommended omnis. Told him the PA speakers should directly point at him and to avoid standing close to a wall.

Do Sound professionals sell AT 853's? Under which reference (SP-BMC-??)? All I could find are cardioid caps. Is a low sens mod available?
« Last Edit: June 20, 2022, 01:29:01 AM by fandelive »
Mics : Sony ECM-717, MM-HLSC-1 (4.7k mod), SP-CMC-4 (at853), 2x DPA4060, 2x DPA4061
Battery box : SP-SPSB-6524 w/bass roll-off filter, MM-CBM-1
Preamp : Church Audio CA-9100
Recorders : Sony MZR-700PC, Edirol R-09HR, Tascam DR-2d

Offline fandelive

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Taperssection Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 476
  • I'm a llama!
Re: Building a full 007 taping rig from scratch in 2022
« Reply #7 on: June 20, 2022, 01:28:11 AM »
Tascam DR-2D, Edirol R-9 or Sony A10.

If buying new, would an Edirol R-07 make it? Listened to a tape done with CA-11 > CA Ugly BB > Edirol R-07 combo on dime and it doesn't sound overloaded. I guess I can find information about that device unity gain somewhere...
Mics : Sony ECM-717, MM-HLSC-1 (4.7k mod), SP-CMC-4 (at853), 2x DPA4060, 2x DPA4061
Battery box : SP-SPSB-6524 w/bass roll-off filter, MM-CBM-1
Preamp : Church Audio CA-9100
Recorders : Sony MZR-700PC, Edirol R-09HR, Tascam DR-2d

Offline unidentified

  • Trade Count: (9)
  • Taperssection Regular
  • **
  • Posts: 222
  • Gender: Male
Re: Building a full 007 taping rig from scratch in 2022
« Reply #8 on: June 20, 2022, 07:19:11 AM »
How is the sound from that location? I can't tell if there are fill speakers along the stage lip; if not, he's going to be at risk of having all the PA sound (i.e., the vocals) go over his head.

I saw a video he shot with his smartphone from that spot. Couldn't see any fill speakers (if I'm ever able to recognize one when I see it) but it sounded like a decent balanced mono mix. Judging by the PA speakers only, yes, the sound would go over his head. Definitely. That's also why I recommended omnis. Told him the PA speakers should directly point at him and to avoid standing close to a wall.

Do Sound professionals sell AT 853's? Under which reference (SP-BMC-??)? All I could find are cardioid caps. Is a low sens mod available?

SP-CMC-4U, and yes regarding the low sensitivity mod.

Offline nulldogmas

  • Trade Count: (6)
  • Taperssection All-Star
  • ****
  • Posts: 1305
    • How I Escaped My Uncertain Fate
Re: Building a full 007 taping rig from scratch in 2022
« Reply #9 on: June 20, 2022, 08:01:25 AM »

SP-CMC-4U, and yes regarding the low sensitivity mod.

And I believe these are the omni caps:

https://soundprofessionals.com/product/UE-O/

Online Gutbucket

  • record > listen > revise technique
  • Trade Count: (15)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 14688
  • Gender: Male
  • "and the rowers keep on rowing!"
Re: Building a full 007 taping rig from scratch in 2022
« Reply #10 on: June 20, 2022, 09:52:25 AM »
I've been experiencing DPA 4061's > 9V battery box > Tascam dr-2D line-in (levels set at 95 aka unity gain) and levels barely reached the -20dB threshold.

A few DR2d specific things-
If running this battery-box > line-in configuration, bump it up to 100 to make use of use the additional 5 units of available gain.  Not sure what difference in dB that equates to, but it may be just about right for that combination.  The important thing is not to set it below 95 in an attempt to accommodate an input that is too hot.  No problem with settings higher than 95.  The only issue in that case is that the available range between 95 and 100 is rather small, and adjustment is only available through the menu.

Alternate configuration is battery box > mic-input (set to low sensitivity, PIP turned off).  You'll then have additional gain available (95 line-in equates to about 65 mic-in / low-sens),which is adjustable while recording if necessary via the input level control and/or remote.

He told me he could manage to secure a spot between the audience and the stage, where press-photographers are allowed to stand during shows (I think it's called "the rail"). [...]
He wants to tape high SPLs rock concerts.

Suggest that he look for smallish fill PA speakers located across the front of the stage, or either side pointing toward the center and position himself near them or arrange for a clear line of sight between himself and them.
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

Offline opsopcopolis

  • Trade Count: (3)
  • Taperssection All-Star
  • ****
  • Posts: 1889
Re: Building a full 007 taping rig from scratch in 2022
« Reply #11 on: June 20, 2022, 11:11:30 AM »
Definitely agree with the Omni rec. Brand/mic is personal preference, but I love my churches and wouldn’t want to stealth with a $2k rig.

The photo pit is definitely not the best place to tape a show, though as others have said, if there’s repeaters in the lip of the stage it could sound solid. I’ve made a handful of tapes from that sort of location and they tend to be mostly drums and will almost definitely lack vocals
Mics: Berliner CM-33, CA-14 card, CA-11 card & omni, AT-853, Sony ECM-907
Recorders: Tascam DR-60D, Tascam DR-05, Sony Hi-MD

Offline daspyknows

  • Complaint Dept.
  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 8704
  • Gender: Male
  • Don't ask, don't tell, don't get get caught
Re: Building a full 007 taping rig from scratch in 2022
« Reply #12 on: June 20, 2022, 11:20:39 AM »
Been stealthing with a $2K-$3K rig for 30 years.   Go big or go home.   :headphones:

Offline detroit lightning

  • Trade Count: (8)
  • Taperssection Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 700
Re: Building a full 007 taping rig from scratch in 2022
« Reply #13 on: June 20, 2022, 02:44:47 PM »
Another idea: DPA 4061's > DPA Dvice > Iphone/Android phone

Assuming they already have a phone, 4061's can be gotten used pretty easily - I see a set in the yard sale for $600 now. $659 for the dvice. So not cheap, but as stealthy as you can get & doesn't require a separate recording device.

Offline edtyre

  • Trade Count: (84)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 2256
  • Gender: Male
  • Team Philly " No Excuses, Just Tapes"
Re: Building a full 007 taping rig from scratch in 2022
« Reply #14 on: June 21, 2022, 06:03:32 PM »
Been stealthing with a $2K-$3K rig for 30 years.   Go big or go home.   :headphones:

18 years for me, I’ll agree if you are serious about taping
get the goods right away, if you decide to get out, you can sell
without losing any money

My first rig cost 750, after I made one recording I was disappointed
My second rig cost 1400 I was still pretty much looking for better
Third times the charm!
music>mics>pre>recorder

Offline morst

  • Trade Unionist
  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 5105
Re: Building a full 007 taping rig from scratch in 2022
« Reply #15 on: June 23, 2022, 01:18:22 AM »
Been stealthing with a $2K-$3K rig for 30 years.   Go big or go home.   :headphones:
what's that, a dollar a show?
#amortized!

Offline daspyknows

  • Complaint Dept.
  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 8704
  • Gender: Male
  • Don't ask, don't tell, don't get get caught
Re: Building a full 007 taping rig from scratch in 2022
« Reply #16 on: June 23, 2022, 03:15:06 AM »
My MK4s have made close to a 1000 shows over 30 years.   

Offline fandelive

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Taperssection Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 476
  • I'm a llama!
Re: Building a full 007 taping rig from scratch in 2022
« Reply #17 on: June 23, 2022, 04:46:15 AM »
My MK4s have made close to a 1000 shows over 30 years.

It's all about personal perspective and parameters. I must have taped 30 shows in 15 years.

If I had infinite money in the bank, I'd probably run two Schoeps rigs (omnis and cards) in a row, but that's not the case.

And it's not a 2 to 3k question. You also have to spend money on tickets, travel, hotels, food, storage concerns for your recordings... Which multiplies the bill for each new show you attend.

I just can't afford it.

With that being said, I'm happy when a Schoeps tape of a favourite artist of mine pops up.

I'm actually happy whenever a tape doesn't sound distorted, or metallic, or muffled, or any other thing that can ruin a recording.

I also don't accumulate a shitload of recordings I'm never listening to. But I'm not being critical with people who do.

Just be happy.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2022, 02:20:19 PM by fandelive »
Mics : Sony ECM-717, MM-HLSC-1 (4.7k mod), SP-CMC-4 (at853), 2x DPA4060, 2x DPA4061
Battery box : SP-SPSB-6524 w/bass roll-off filter, MM-CBM-1
Preamp : Church Audio CA-9100
Recorders : Sony MZR-700PC, Edirol R-09HR, Tascam DR-2d

Offline opsopcopolis

  • Trade Count: (3)
  • Taperssection All-Star
  • ****
  • Posts: 1889
Re: Building a full 007 taping rig from scratch in 2022
« Reply #18 on: June 23, 2022, 11:46:45 AM »
I prefer the tone of my CA-11s to almost every Schoeps tape I've ever heard... ducks and hides
Mics: Berliner CM-33, CA-14 card, CA-11 card & omni, AT-853, Sony ECM-907
Recorders: Tascam DR-60D, Tascam DR-05, Sony Hi-MD

Offline detroit lightning

  • Trade Count: (8)
  • Taperssection Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 700
Re: Building a full 007 taping rig from scratch in 2022
« Reply #19 on: June 23, 2022, 12:13:37 PM »
If they’re new to taping, some CA14s > batt box > recorder is a no-brainer. Can do it for $200 or less with used gear, and get perfectly fine/nice recordings.

Offline nulldogmas

  • Trade Count: (6)
  • Taperssection All-Star
  • ****
  • Posts: 1305
    • How I Escaped My Uncertain Fate
Re: Building a full 007 taping rig from scratch in 2022
« Reply #20 on: June 23, 2022, 02:31:57 PM »
If they’re new to taping, some CA14s > batt box > recorder is a no-brainer. Can do it for $200 or less with used gear, and get perfectly fine/nice recordings.

If they can find CA-14 omnis, definitely.

Offline fandelive

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Taperssection Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 476
  • I'm a llama!
Re: Building a full 007 taping rig from scratch in 2022
« Reply #21 on: June 23, 2022, 03:35:35 PM »
If they’re new to taping, some CA14s > batt box > recorder is a no-brainer. Can do it for $200 or less with used gear, and get perfectly fine/nice recordings.

If they can find CA-14 omnis, definitely.

Currently 2 in stock on CA's website.
Mics : Sony ECM-717, MM-HLSC-1 (4.7k mod), SP-CMC-4 (at853), 2x DPA4060, 2x DPA4061
Battery box : SP-SPSB-6524 w/bass roll-off filter, MM-CBM-1
Preamp : Church Audio CA-9100
Recorders : Sony MZR-700PC, Edirol R-09HR, Tascam DR-2d

Offline fandelive

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Taperssection Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 476
  • I'm a llama!
Re: Building a full 007 taping rig from scratch in 2022
« Reply #22 on: June 23, 2022, 04:35:28 PM »
There's actually an existing thread about that venue in the venue info section.

Here's what tapers have to say about the sweet spot:

Last I was there was for As the Crow Flies 18 months ago. They made folks set up on the level right in front of FOH, so a bit back from the sweet spot.

I'd go low profile and further forward...


Ditto....the board is under an overhang and for taper friendly bands they make you setup there in most cases. As Chect said if you lowpro you can grab the space at the rail dfcfob and it will sound killer

I ignore what DFC means. FOB is front of board. Also, I thought the rail was a reference to the space between the fence that keeps people away from the stage and the stage itself. But I might have been mistaken? Would be a curious place for the board...
Mics : Sony ECM-717, MM-HLSC-1 (4.7k mod), SP-CMC-4 (at853), 2x DPA4060, 2x DPA4061
Battery box : SP-SPSB-6524 w/bass roll-off filter, MM-CBM-1
Preamp : Church Audio CA-9100
Recorders : Sony MZR-700PC, Edirol R-09HR, Tascam DR-2d

Offline jefflester

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Taperssection All-Star
  • ****
  • Posts: 1321
  • Gender: Male
Re: Building a full 007 taping rig from scratch in 2022
« Reply #23 on: June 23, 2022, 05:01:01 PM »
There's actually an existing thread about that venue in the venue info section.

Here's what tapers have to say about the sweet spot:

Last I was there was for As the Crow Flies 18 months ago. They made folks set up on the level right in front of FOH, so a bit back from the sweet spot.

I'd go low profile and further forward...


Ditto....the board is under an overhang and for taper friendly bands they make you setup there in most cases. As Chect said if you lowpro you can grab the space at the rail dfcfob and it will sound killer

I ignore what DFC means. FOB is front of board. Also, I thought the rail was a reference to the space between the fence that keeps people away from the stage and the stage itself. But I might have been mistaken? Would be a curious place for the board...
FOB doesn't mean directly in front of the board, it means anywhere in front of the board, just to differentiate from an OTS, generally behind the board. "FOB" means anywhere between the stage and the board. And rail can mean a fence that separates the stage from the crowd ("rail rats"), but in taper talk it means an elevated divider/wall between sections. At this venue, there are even multiple "rails" between the board level and the stage, at the front of each terraced section. I've haven't recorded there in years, but my recollection is that the first "rail" is maybe even a little close, though it depends on how much stage fill PA there is and how much stage volume vs PA volume the band has.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2022, 05:05:04 PM by jefflester »
DPA4061 HEB/AT943 -> CA-UGLY -> R-09
Samson C02/Superlux S502/iSK Little Gem -> DR-680MKII
AKG CK63 -> AKG C460B -> DR-680MKII
AKG CK63 -> nBob actives -> Baby NBox -> R-09/DR2d

Offline checht

  • Trade Count: (5)
  • Taperssection Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 494
  • Gender: Male
  • Old and in the Way
Re: Building a full 007 taping rig from scratch in 2022
« Reply #24 on: June 24, 2022, 09:34:19 PM »
Want to mention the new Zoom F3 as a good recorder for a noob, as there's no levels to set. Small, has p48 if desired, looks pertty promising.
Schoeps MK41s > nbob KCY >
Naiant PFA 60v > Sound Devices MP-6 II  or  Naiant IPA > Roland R-07
Vanguard V1s matched pair
Recordings at LMA

Offline fandelive

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Taperssection Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 476
  • I'm a llama!
Re: Building a full 007 taping rig from scratch in 2022
« Reply #25 on: June 25, 2022, 06:30:47 AM »
Want to mention the new Zoom F3 as a good recorder for a noob, as there's no levels to set. Small, has p48 if desired, looks pertty promising.

No levels? Does that mean you have limiter or automatic gain control applied by design and you can't disable it?

Can give ugly results in case you have sudden level fluctuations.
Mics : Sony ECM-717, MM-HLSC-1 (4.7k mod), SP-CMC-4 (at853), 2x DPA4060, 2x DPA4061
Battery box : SP-SPSB-6524 w/bass roll-off filter, MM-CBM-1
Preamp : Church Audio CA-9100
Recorders : Sony MZR-700PC, Edirol R-09HR, Tascam DR-2d

Offline hedfro

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 9
Re: Building a full 007 taping rig from scratch in 2022
« Reply #26 on: June 25, 2022, 07:29:44 AM »
No limiter. No level ‘cause its 32bit i guess
Tascam DR-40X, Tascam DR-2D, Roland R-07
CA-14 Cards, SP-CMC-4U-Phantom (AT 853)

Online grawk

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Taperssection Regular
  • **
  • Posts: 58
  • Gender: Male
Re: Building a full 007 taping rig from scratch in 2022
« Reply #27 on: June 25, 2022, 09:18:03 AM »
i came here to suggest the f3 as well. 32bit for low pro is a game changer. But the dvice is a pretty great solution too, and less likely to get noticed by security.

Offline MakersMarc

  • Trade Count: (15)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 7316
  • Gender: Male
  • 😈
Re: Building a full 007 taping rig from scratch in 2022
« Reply #28 on: June 26, 2022, 01:46:46 PM »
Been stealthing with a $2K-$3K rig for 30 years.   Go big or go home.   :headphones:

18 years for me, I’ll agree if you are serious about taping
get the goods right away, if you decide to get out, you can sell
without losing any money

My first rig cost 750, after I made one recording I was disappointed
My second rig cost 1400 I was still pretty much looking for better
Third times the charm!

You can 'get by" with AT 853, or Church Audios, but the gulf between the Churches and the ATs, and say MK4/4V>nbox plat_deck, is vast. If you can't swing the latter, I'd go DPA 4060/61>Church audio preamp>the handheld deck of your choice. If you go used should be like $600-800 for the mics, $100 for a used Church preamp, and $100-200, or less, for a good used deck. The DPA rig punches way above $1000 imho. Drag is the 4060/61 are omnis, but if you get close indoors in a good room, they do well, and kill outdoors. IMHO.
😈 Mk4v/41v>nbob actives>Baby nbox>Oade warm mod Marantz 620.

Open: 4v/41v>nbobs>Nicky mod Naiant PFA>Oade warm mod 661.

Home: the Stereo Hospital budget refurb rig: Lappie>DragonFly Cobalt/Red with Jitterbug>Nikko NR520/Sansui 221>B&W V202 speakers.

Offline mrfender

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Taperssection Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 274
Re: Building a full 007 taping rig from scratch in 2022
« Reply #29 on: June 26, 2022, 02:27:45 PM »
Been stealthing with a $2K-$3K rig for 30 years.   Go big or go home.   :headphones:

18 years for me, I’ll agree if you are serious about taping
get the goods right away, if you decide to get out, you can sell
without losing any money

My first rig cost 750, after I made one recording I was disappointed
My second rig cost 1400 I was still pretty much looking for better
Third times the charm!

You can 'get by" with AT 853, or Church Audios, but the gulf between the Churches and the ATs, and say MK4/4V>nbox plat_deck, is vast. If you can't swing the latter, I'd go DPA 4060/61>Church audio preamp>the handheld deck of your choice. If you go used should be like $600-800 for the mics, $100 for a used Church preamp, and $100-200, or less, for a good used deck. The DPA rig punches way above $1000 imho. Drag is the 4060/61 are omnis, but if you get close indoors in a good room, they do well, and kill outdoors. IMHO.

I'm in that area where I'd like to step up from AT/CAs but it's tough to justify the cost (for me any way).  I'd almost consider CM4s but you're probably not going to stealth easily with those.
DR-01, DR-05, DR-22wl, DR-40, PCM-M10, Roland R-07
CA-11 omni, CA-14 card/omni, at853 cards/omni, Nak CM-300 cards/omni

Offline Scooter123

  • "I am not an alcoholic. I am a drunk. Drunks don't go to meetings."
  • Trade Count: (9)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 3012
Re: Building a full 007 taping rig from scratch in 2022
« Reply #30 on: Yesterday at 05:57:22 PM »
I bought some crappy Church Audio mikes and a battery box and after awhile realized that I wanted to get into this hobby seriously.  So if the taper is serious, buy the best mikes you afford, like Neumann or Schoeps. 

What I did to vet the possible mikes was to download 50-75 of the best sounding shows off The Dime and then looked at the gear being used.  The top 80% of the shows were Neumann's or Schoeps, with a smattering of DPA, AKG, and yes even some Church Audio mikes.  But the overwhelming majority of the good sounding shows were Schoeps or Neumann.  Schoeps stealths a little better and a bunch of California tapers use them, so I went on board with Schoeps and a NBox. 
Regards,
Scooter123

mk41 > N Box  > Sony M-10
mk4 > N Box > Sony M-10

Offline kindms

  • Trade Count: (6)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 5698
    • The Breakfast
Re: Building a full 007 taping rig from scratch in 2022
« Reply #31 on: Yesterday at 06:37:26 PM »
I bought some crappy Church Audio mikes and a battery box and after awhile realized that I wanted to get into this hobby seriously.  So if the taper is serious, buy the best mikes you afford, like Neumann or Schoeps. 

What I did to vet the possible mikes was to download 50-75 of the best sounding shows off The Dime and then looked at the gear being used.  The top 80% of the shows were Neumann's or Schoeps, with a smattering of DPA, AKG, and yes even some Church Audio mikes.  But the overwhelming majority of the good sounding shows were Schoeps or Neumann.  Schoeps stealths a little better and a bunch of California tapers use them, so I went on board with Schoeps and a NBox.

I wonder how much schoeps being one of the only serious mics to have modular options in years past played in to that. lovely microphones either way
AKG c426, AKG414 XLS/ST, AKG ck61, ck22, >nBob colettes >PFA > V3, SD MixPre >  TCM-Mod Tascam HDP2, Sony M10
Little Bear tube Pre >Outlaw Audio 2200 Monoblocks > VR-2's

Offline nulldogmas

  • Trade Count: (6)
  • Taperssection All-Star
  • ****
  • Posts: 1305
    • How I Escaped My Uncertain Fate
Re: Building a full 007 taping rig from scratch in 2022
« Reply #32 on: Yesterday at 07:16:23 PM »
So if the taper is serious, buy the best mikes you afford, like Neumann or Schoeps. 

"Best mikes you can afford" is going to vary depending on, well, what you can afford. Agreed that those are the best, though, for those who can front the money.

Offline checht

  • Trade Count: (5)
  • Taperssection Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 494
  • Gender: Male
  • Old and in the Way
Re: Building a full 007 taping rig from scratch in 2022
« Reply #33 on: Yesterday at 09:18:07 PM »
I bought some crappy Church Audio mikes and a battery box and after awhile realized that I wanted to get into this hobby seriously.  So if the taper is serious, buy the best mikes you afford, like Neumann or Schoeps. 

What I did to vet the possible mikes was to download 50-75 of the best sounding shows off The Dime and then looked at the gear being used.  The top 80% of the shows were Neumann's or Schoeps, with a smattering of DPA, AKG, and yes even some Church Audio mikes.  But the overwhelming majority of the good sounding shows were Schoeps or Neumann.  Schoeps stealths a little better and a bunch of California tapers use them, so I went on board with Schoeps and a NBox.
Concur with above and want to offer an alternate theory.
Not sure we can count on this being a causal relationship. What if all the 'best' tapers use Schoeps/Neumanns, and their expertise puts them reliably in the sweet spot, allows them to do great post-productoin work, etc?

Correlation looks a lot like causation in the real world. Just sayin'
Schoeps MK41s > nbob KCY >
Naiant PFA 60v > Sound Devices MP-6 II  or  Naiant IPA > Roland R-07
Vanguard V1s matched pair
Recordings at LMA

Offline Scooter123

  • "I am not an alcoholic. I am a drunk. Drunks don't go to meetings."
  • Trade Count: (9)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 3012
Re: Building a full 007 taping rig from scratch in 2022
« Reply #34 on: Yesterday at 10:38:58 PM »
Having used Churchs, some other kind I cannot now remember, DPA and Schoeps and borrowed Neumanns, this is what I found:

Being in a crappy location (under a balcony, at the back of the theater, next to some talkers, or over at the side), what I found was that good microphones do a better job in a crappy location than cheaper microphones; and conversely, a crappy microphone in a great location can make a good tape.  Obviously, good microphones in a good location make as good a tape as one can get.  Small clubs or stack tapes close in?  DPAs did really well and are excellent stealth mikes. 
Regards,
Scooter123

mk41 > N Box  > Sony M-10
mk4 > N Box > Sony M-10

Offline detroit lightning

  • Trade Count: (8)
  • Taperssection Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 700
Re: Building a full 007 taping rig from scratch in 2022
« Reply #35 on: Yesterday at 10:57:41 PM »
Everything devolves into a shoeps or everything else argument. It’s so lame.

Offline fandelive

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Taperssection Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 476
  • I'm a llama!
Re: Building a full 007 taping rig from scratch in 2022
« Reply #36 on: Today at 04:39:18 AM »
There's also a omnis VS cards question you'll have to ask yourself.

I've always found Schoeps cards to be surgically precise... to the point I sometimes feel like listening to raw studio recordings rushes  where all the post processing and mastering work (eq, reverb, delay, compression, and so on...) is missing.

That's why I tend to prefer omnis over cards. It's, a live event we're trying to document.

It's a matter of taste. Again, I won't spit on a Schoeps tape. I won't spit on any decent recording tape. It's been said before but reaching the sweet spot is more than half the job done.

I bet you 99.99999% of the tapers would favor omnis if stars where always aligned regarding taping conditions (sweet sounding spot, sweet audience, sweet everything). Cards and subcards are better at cutting the shit off. Omnis are better at capturing the whole experience of a live concert.

BTW: Can we get anything better than DPA's for omnis???
« Last Edit: Today at 05:50:52 AM by fandelive »
Mics : Sony ECM-717, MM-HLSC-1 (4.7k mod), SP-CMC-4 (at853), 2x DPA4060, 2x DPA4061
Battery box : SP-SPSB-6524 w/bass roll-off filter, MM-CBM-1
Preamp : Church Audio CA-9100
Recorders : Sony MZR-700PC, Edirol R-09HR, Tascam DR-2d

 

RSS | Mobile
Page created in 0.123 seconds with 59 queries.
© 2002-2022 Taperssection.com
Powered by SMF