Topic: Oade R44 super Mod vs Concert Mod

[jim1274]

I must be slow--how do I find out if there is an audible difference if nobody has done an A/B comparison?  If this were simply a matter of buying a stock one now and just paying a $54 mod cost later, with only shipping as the added cost, I'd have a stock one on the way right now.  (The added cost is only 54 bucks getting the mod right out of the gate.) Did not ask, but it HAS to be significantly more for just the mod later.   Makes sense to me to try to get to the bottom of the mod value before, not after, purchasing (under this scenario).  But it seems that is not to be---this model's mods have not been fully tested from what I'm hearing. 

My leanings in general (on mods) are toward your fringe group, but just trying to be open-minded and make an informed decision.  I'm now wishing this mod thing had not even popped-up on my radar screen and the R-44 was headed to my door from the cheap supplier before I found Oade's store.......

I read the FOSTEX F2RLE link---that was the one I planned to get before deciding to take the 4-channel route.

You don't think the mods could be a step backwards, do you?  Wasted money and warranty risk are the only added "costs" I'm potentially facing?  Not that those aren't enough to take pause....

I hope the rest of my equipment purchases are less difficult....

Doug Oade has got to be praying I buy a stock unit--CAN'T be worth his trouble to do any mod and break-in testing for 54 bucks!

[Will_S]

As to the mods possibly degrading things...hard to say.  On some decks folks offer both "transparent" and "warm" mods, so at least one mod must definitely alter the sound in a way that is less true to the recorded signal than the stock unit.  But the result appears to be a sound most folks prefer.

How about this...buy stock from Oade.  He still gets your business, and is saved the trouble of modding.  Plus, if you decide to have him mod it down the line, it may well cost more (also you'll need to ship it again, and wait again) but if you have him mod it right as the warranty runs out, you don't lose any coverage and maybe even gain an additional 90 days.  Although I agree, most often if the unit is going to fail, it will do so in short order.

And yes, it's unfortunate there are apparently no comparisons out there of stock vs modded R44, or few good comparisons for any of the mods for that matter.

[Gutbucket]

Seeing that the R-44 is a 4 track machine, can you order it modded on two of the 4 channels?  You could then compare the modded to the non-modded channels on the same machine.. answer some of the questions about the sound of the mod, plus we can all argue endlessly about how best to do the comp. 

[jim1274]

To Will S.,

Thanks for taking the time for your further thoughts.  If I was not so anxious to get the unit, I'd "take one for the team" and offer to have it shipped right to a member who has a stock R-44 and wanted to test it and get to the bottom of this issue.  This has been an adventure, to say the least....

I just missed the 2PM ET deadline to order a mod for shipment Monday, so guess I can sit back and see if any owners of Concert mods step-up and take the other side of this debate.  

I like that--save Doug some work--that's the holiday giving spirit!  (Was not trying to be a smart aleck...)

My computer buddy would tell me I'm in "analysis paralysis" mode on this one......

This is a great forum.....


To Gutbucket,

Are you just stirring the pot or serious?  I like the part about "we can all argue endlessly about how best to do the comp"!

Boy, I should have ordered that stock unit before getting in over my head--I could not even find the correct (threaded) end of a mic boom 6 days ago!  I am NOT the guy to be doing a test like this!!!  That is for your PROS!  I am GREEN!

This forum should have a warning label about addition in the newbie section!

[dmonkey]

I suspect that the mod does change the sound of the unit, but the difference is probably slight, and it's definitely not a night-and-day type of thing. That said, regardless of how you order the R-44 (mod or un-mod), I think you're going to love it. It's a great little unit. 

Although it would be cool to hear a comparison. 

[Gutbucket]

To Gutbucket,

Are you just stirring the pot or serious?  I like the part about "we can all argue endlessly about how best to do the comp"!

Well, that last part was a bit tongue-in-cheek.

Not sure how the R-44 mod is done and if it is possible to only mod 2 of the 4 channels or not (I know the R-4 mods were offered in various flavors and some would choose different versions for the two pairs of channels).  Doesn't change the Oade warranty deal but is perhaps the only sure way to answer your curiosity about the sound of the mod.  Just throwing the possibility out there.

Now about how to set-up that comp..

[flipp]

I must be slow--how do I find out if there is an audible difference if nobody has done an A/B comparison?  If this were simply a matter of buying a stock one now and just paying a $54 mod cost later, with only shipping as the added cost, I'd have a stock one on the way right now.  (The added cost is only 54 bucks getting the mod right out of the gate.) Did not ask, but it HAS to be significantly more for just the mod later.   Makes sense to me to try to get to the bottom of the mod value before, not after, purchasing (under this scenario).  But it seems that is not to be---this model's mods have not been fully tested from what I'm hearing. 

My leanings in general (on mods) are toward your fringe group, but just trying to be open-minded and make an informed decision.  I'm now wishing this mod thing had not even popped-up on my radar screen and the R-44 was headed to my door from the cheap supplier before I found Oade's store.......

I read the FOSTEX F2RLE link---that was the one I planned to get before deciding to take the 4-channel route.

You don't think the mods could be a step backwards, do you?  Wasted money and warranty risk are the only added "costs" I'm potentially facing?  Not that those aren't enough to take pause....

I hope the rest of my equipment purchases are less difficult....

Doug Oade has got to be praying I buy a stock unit--CAN'T be worth his trouble to do any mod and break-in testing for 54 bucks!

I believe it works just that way; no additional cost for a mod done later other than the cost of the mod ($54 in this case) plus freight to get it to Doug and then freight to get it back to you. Doing it that way the only thing you save getting the mod done when you purchase the unit is the two additional freight charges.

My recommendation (for what it's worth) is to take WillS's advice, buy the unit stock then just before the factory warranty expires, send it back to Doug for the mod and get an additional 90 days under warranty.

Curious why you think it has to be more to get the mod done later? It's the same mod and takes the same parts and time to do it now as it does in the future. Perhaps that's one reason Doug will only mod units he sells. If he did other units maybe he would charge more but then he opens another set of problems for himself. Simpler for him to limit his mods to his units so he isn't swamped with work. I seem to recall him saying he was cutting down on bench work due to health (back) issues but I haven't seen much of a slowdown. I can only imagine how much greater a workload he would have if he modded units he didn't sell. It would be more than a full time job.

[Gutbucket]

My recommendation (for what it's worth) is to take WillS's advice, buy the unit stock then just before the factory warranty expires, send it back to Doug for the mod and get an additional 90 days under warranty.

[jim1274]

The stock option is a done deal if that is the case--same total cost except an extra set of shipping charges.  I'll email him right now to confirm.  That just seems too good to be true.  He has to handle the thing twice--not insignificant cost just in "processing" it to my mind.

Busman just confirmed my mic purchase....looking at Manfrotto Basic 12 stand right now...trying to figure out if I need silver cables...

Coming together.....FINALLY!   I am pumped! 

Thanks to all who have helped me!!!!   This forum is great!

[newplanet7]

If you go the silver cables route pm darktrain as he's got some swinging deals.
Check the retail section for his thread. http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,110932.0.html

[jim1274]

Thanks!  That is EXACTLY what I was looking at now when taking a break to check this thread.  When I joined Team Edirol R-44, Brian G told me to get some silvers, so I went straight to the Marketplace and found Darktrain.  (Are silvers a no-brainer, or is that another hotly debated subject?  No--don't answer that!  What was I thinking---enough debating for me today!  But is it an obvious choice?)

I'm just trying to figure out the stand, brackets, and adapter puzzle now on an a Manfrotto 3336---getting ready to email micsupply.com now to see if this is what I need: http://www.micsupply.com/package2.htm

Almost to the finish line!  Thanks to all!!!!

[newplanet7]

Yep you guessed it!
Cables are also a heavily debated topic 
Get the silvers and be done with it though.
At the price that darktrain sells them for it's a no brainer.

For you're stand.
Not sure what the end terminates in but this is the rapid adapter I use
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=product&A=ShowProduct&Q=&sku=546490&addedTroughType=replacementLink


Then to go from the rapid adapter to t-bar I use one of these
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/286147-REG/AKG_KM217_3_8_Female_to_5_8_.html


Are you going to be using a t-bar?
This is what I use. Very versatile.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/286149-REG/AKG_KM235_1_KM235_1_Stereo_Microphone_Bar.html


Here's how it assembles



If you're using the t-bar another great piece of hardware to get in order to achieve
din, xy, ortf set-ups with your mics  by giving one of them a lift higher than the other
EXAMPLE



is this, which is a great riser. I'd get two if I were you to get a good height.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/47070-REG/Sennheiser_MZA216_Sennheiser_MZA_216_Thread_Adapter.html


And grab two more of these for the top of the risers to go into the bottom of the shock
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/286147-REG/AKG_KM217_3_8_Female_to_5_8_.html


ALWAYS A GOOD IDEA TO HAVE EXTRA ADAPTERS

[jim1274]

Have I said lately how much I love this forum?  I am indebted to all for the incredible help afforded me.  Hope to be able to repay the favor someday.

Thankfully, sounds like the silvers are priced such that it looks like an easy decision!  Darktrain PM already in the mail!

Now just have to decipher the hardware and mounting issues, then "Miller Time"? 

Probably a stupid question, but....

I'm going to need a much longer than the typical 15' cable for this tall stand?  Unless I am completely missing the picture, if the mics are up high with the stand extended, I'll need to go down the stand, over to a table or some such, then up and back into the R-44.  Is it best just to get a LONG set of cables to cover a variety of situations and be done with it?  I did some research and the length limit before quality is lost does not seem to be an issue.  Guess I better find out how much these are per foot before thinking LOOOONNNNGGGGG....

[Will_S]

Have I said lately how much I love this forum?  I am indebted to all for the incredible help afforded me.  Hope to be able to repay the favor someday.

Thankfully, sounds like the silvers are priced such that it looks like an easy decision!  Darktrain PM already in the mail!

Now just have to decipher the hardware and mounting issues, then "Miller Time"? 

Probably a stupid question, but....

I'm going to need a much longer than the typical 15' cable for this tall stand?  Unless I am completely missing the picture, if the mics are up high with the stand extended, I'll need to go down the stand, over to a table or some such, then up and back into the R-44.  Is it best just to get a LONG set of cables to cover a variety of situations and be done with it?  I did some research and the length limit before quality is lost does not seem to be an issue.  Guess I better find out how much these are per foot before thinking LOOOONNNNGGGGG....

My advice...get a well built set of 15' cables.  From what I hear, Darktrain's silver cables fit the bill, whether or not the silver part makes an audible difference, having good connectors and good construction is always important.  The 15' cables should usually suffice...your stand will usually be 8-9' tops, which leaves you enough cable to run to a bag by the base or onto a short table (although usually I'd recommend not having a long run of cable on the floor, too easy for folks to kick etc).

And then get a pair of cheapo 25' or maybe even longer cables for when you need it.  Nothing wrong with stringing a few cables together in a pinch, so a pair of 15' plus a pair of 25' is really as good as a pair of 40', but less of a hassle when you only need a short run.

Personally I have a pretty nice set of 15' cables, a decent pair of 25'ers that has me covered for 99% of what I do, and a pair of super-cheapo 15'ers for use in "emergencies" when 40' isn't quite enough.

[newplanet7]

Wills answer was a good one.
I have a pair of 20'ers and a pair of 15'ers.