Topic: Looking to Upgrade Rig -- Suggestions?

[VH Drummer]

The time has come for me to finally upgrade my rig. I mostly do stealth taping. My ideal price range is $250 or less. Does anyone have any suggestions on what to get? Thanks!

[achalsey]

What do you use now?  The Sony M10 is very popular in that price range.  The Roland R-05 is also small, affordable, and good quality.

[chinariderstl]

I second the Sony PCM-M10 suggestion, can't beat it in my opinion.

If you are looking for little mics, I would suggest either the Audio-Technica AT853a's or one of the Church Audio sets of mics.

You can also grab a Naiant Tinybox or Naiant Tinyhead to power the mics, or a battery box / pre-amp from Sound Professionals or Church Audio.

I would check out these threads.

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=158945

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=159857

[yltfan]

What do you have now, and how are you trying to improve on your recordings?

If you are only prepared for stealthing, I would invest in stuff that will give you a better open taping setup, even if it's just about getting your stealth rig up on a stand.

[flipp]

Without more information on what you wish to upgrade - mics, pre, recorder - and which is highest priority; my smartass suggestion is a larger budget.

Both of the above are good suggestions but without knowing what you use now and what item you most wish to upgrade specific suggestions will be difficult.

[VH Drummer]

Yeah, I figured I needed to give more detail.

Right now I have a pretty underwhelming set-up:  Sony ECM DS70P mic and Sony MZ-NH700. Yes, I know--a MiniDisc. I don't get a chance to tape that often anymore due to my being away at college. Though when home for break, I noticed my MiniDisc finally kicked the bucket. My biggest concern is the actual recorder, with any microphones or pre-amps being secondary. I got some real nice captures with that set-up, but since the actual recorder is past its time, I need to upgrade.

Thanks for your responses so far!

[flipp]

The SONY M10 gets lots of fluffing here on TS. I've never used one, not even seen one in person so I can't comment. Since you have such a limited budget check the TASCAM DR2D mentioned in the following thread - http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=159931.0 I haven't used one of those either but if that deal is still available you might then be able to find a set of Church Audio mics in the yard sale (or ebay thread) and get an upgraded rig for very close to your budget. Good luck.

<eta> the Sony M10 can be had in the $200-225 range from several online retailers but if you can't go over your target budget, the DR2D and used mics (Church, SP, or AT) would be my recommendation; however, if you're happy with the Sony mic, think about getting a recorder now and upgrading mics later </eta>

[yltfan]

^Yes, Tascam DR2D for $90 can't be beat. Grab one now, like I did. I bet the M10 is better, but the Tascam will do the trick, plus you can 4 channels!

[VH Drummer]

Thanks for the tip on the Tascam recorder! I just picked one up.

[yltfan]

Assuming the Tascam has plug-in power (big assumption, I actually have no idea), you can spend the rest on some mics. I like my AT853's, other folks like the Church Audio mics. You should be able to find a used set of of one of those in your price range.

[LikeASong]

My biggest concern is the actual recorder, with any microphones or pre-amps being secondary.

I've just seen you've got a DR2D on the cheap - I envy you for that

Now that you have another $100-150 spare, it's maybe the time to re-think that sentence I quoted. I'm a low profile taper and I've taped with that EXACT SAME setup you have been using (DS70P mic plus minidisc) for quite some time. Then I upgraded the recorder to a Zoom Q3HD (200 bucks) and the recordings were more or less the same quality (only lossless instead of lossy-minidisc). Then I upgraded the microphones to a Church Audio pair (100 bucks) and the recordings improved from "average-good" to "very good-excellent". Like that. A bad mic with a 600 bucks recorder will give you a bad recording. A good mic with a cheap recorder will give you a good recording. Easy

So, my advice right now is - take that extra money you have, and get some of the excellent deals that Chris Church (owner & builder of Church Audio gear) is doing as final year sale for a pair of mics plus preamps/battery boxes. Virtually anything he sells (you can ask for info on different models, most common are CA-11's, CA-14's and CAFS) will improve significantly your recordings' quality! Good luck

[darktrain]

Yes, mics should be your first upgrade

[earmonger]

Definitely change mics. The DS70P looks kind of cool but has meager bass and lots of self-noise.  Compared to what you'll get with better mics, your old recordings are going to sound like your ears were wrapped in a towel.

I've moved up to Church Audio CA-14 omni mics, which are splendid and still in your price range. If you record amplified music you don't really need a preamp, though you might want to get a battery box.

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=159385.0

However, good as Church Audio is, he's often back ordered because he builds everything himself by hand, so getting your mics can take weeks.

If you are impatient or want to save a little money, you can also get good tiny mics fast from Sound Professionals. The BMC-2 are the size of a pencil eraser and clip nicely to a hat or shirt collar.

It looks like they have repriced them to include clips, so make sure you don't end up ordering an extra set of clips.

http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/SP-BMC-2

They have battery modules too. You'd go mic-->battery module-->Line-in.

http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/category.cgi?item=SP-SPSB-10

[adrianf74]

Chris Church currently has a great deal on mics and power options right now... I'd definitely look at those.   Cheap mics = cheap sound.  Even those his mics are pretty inexpensive, they rival many of the other similar mics that are more expensive.  I've owned AT933's, CA-14 omnis and cards, DPA 4061 (omnis), Countryman B3 (omnis) and AT853 cards.  I personally prefer the sound of the AT853's, however, they're pretty hard to come by so if I didn't have the option of getting those, I'd grab the CA-14 cards (or omnis) depending on where you'll be standing/setting up for shows.   

Battery box is probably fine -- I think preamps are overkill for most loud rock shows but they do have their place for pop shows/jazz/classical/etc.

I'm not a huge fan of Sound Professionals products - I think they're overpriced for what they are.  Chris is saying that all orders before the end of today will ship by mid-February and I'm sure the 6 week wait will be worth it.

[darktrain]

There is a set of those church micro omnis on ebay right now for i think 80 bucks, thats one way to go

[fmaderjr]

Right now I have a pretty underwhelming set-up:  Sony ECM DS70P mic and Sony MZ-NH700. Yes, I know--a MiniDisc. I don't get a chance to tape that often anymore due to my being away at college. Though when home for break, I noticed my MiniDisc finally kicked the bucket. My biggest concern is the actual recorder, with any microphones or pre-amps being secondary. I got some real nice captures with that set-up, but since the actual recorder is past its time, I need to upgrade.

The M10 is a great choice for a recorder, but if you buy one and run your Sony ECM DS70P mic into it, you may not hear any difference in your recordings. Mini-Disc quality is surprisingly good as long as you aren't using one of the long play modes.

On the other hand if you buy a Church Audio mic and battery box and run it into the Mini-Disc your surely will hear an improvement in your recordings (unless the Mini-Disc is no longer working properly). Church mics are a huge upgrade to your Sony ECM DS70P mic. A Sony M10 is also a huge upgrade to your Mini-Disc, but the change in audio quality may be hard to hear. When I recorded with a Hi-MD, I used the High LP mode (which is equal to the best standard Mini-Disc quality) and the recordings sounded incredible. (I didn't use Hi-MD quality because I could hear no difference and didn't want to have to swap discs during a show).

Unless you are big on using a recorder's internal mics (which I don't recommend), if you can't afford to buy a complete set up right now, I would buy your new mics and battery box first and a new recorder when you can afford it.

[LikeASong]

^ basically what I said. I've recorded many many times with MiniDisc and the proper audio quality (using the same mics obviously) was the same than when I upgraded my recorder.

 By the way, fmaderjr, the guy has *already* bought a Tascam DR2D, so a pair of good mics are definitely the way way way to go!!!

[taperwheeler]

You should hit up the Live Music Archive and listen to recordings made with the various mics, recorders, and combinations listed to see what sounds good to you.

[Fried Chicken Boy]

Battery box is probably fine -- I think preamps are overkill for most loud rock shows but they do have their place for pop shows/jazz/classical/etc.

^^ This.  To expand on that, I would also suggest sticking with a "plain" battery box and not one with rolloff filters: just unnecessary switches you don't need to worry about and you can take care of any EQ'ing in post.  Also, I would go for a battery box that uses 9v batteries as opposed to the slightly smaller ones that use 12v batteries.  The size difference isn't all that much, 12v batteries aren't as commonplace as the 9v, and there is a shorter powering time for 12v as opposed to 9v (roughly 50 hours vs. 250 hours, conservatively).

[adrianf74]

Battery box is probably fine -- I think preamps are overkill for most loud rock shows but they do have their place for pop shows/jazz/classical/etc.

^^ This.  To expand on that, I would also suggest sticking with a "plain" battery box and not one with rolloff filters: just unnecessary switches you don't need to worry about and you can take care of any EQ'ing in post.  Also, I would go for a battery box that uses 9v batteries as opposed to the slightly smaller ones that use 12v batteries.  The size difference isn't all that much, 12v batteries aren't as commonplace as the 9v, and there is a shorter powering time for 12v as opposed to 9v (roughly 50 hours vs. 250 hours, conservatively).

And to add to this, the Church Audio Ugly "Battery Box" is probably as least complex a battery box one can buy (and for $29 + shipping).  It's small, idiot proof, and never fails me.

[adrianf74]

You should hit up the Live Music Archive and listen to recordings made with the various mics, recorders, and combinations listed to see what sounds good to you.

Unless the OP knows the venue and how the mics were set up, the LMA only goes so far.  For the money, CA-14 cards or omnis are probably the best best in the case of the OP unless he can find some AT-853's.  I wouldn't buy the SP-CMC-4's at $200 + 4.7k mod because they're WAAAY overpriced at that point.   Chris has a sale on CA-14's right now I think for $110 + shipping (which is dirt cheap).