Taperssection.com
Gear / Technical Help => Photo / Video Recording => Topic started by: Sanjay on May 27, 2008, 11:23:39 PM
-
I decided today to give some thought to image processing. I mostly use Adobe Bridge/CS3 for my processing but have also used Aperture and Nikon Capture NX.
All are the same images, shot in RAW and converted to JPG straight with no adjustments at the highest setting. The only differences are how each program reads the RAW file.
Which do you prefer, I'll reveal to you if you PM me. In a week I will post it. I'm interested to see if people can pick it out and which they prefer.
Please feel free to guess which is CS3, Aperture, and Nikon Capture NX!
Example A: Original "http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2085/2529405875_e86ac30406_o.jpg"
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2085/2529405875_21de783253.jpg)
Example B: Original "http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3117/2529405833_7ccde2face_o.jpg"
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3117/2529405833_6309d9042a.jpg)
Example C: Original "http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2329/2529405817_cbfe5d6849_o.jpg"
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2329/2529405817_8da16d5591.jpg)
-
Not sure if its my screen or my eye site but "C" stands out to me like a sore thumb. The colors are clear and the picture comes out of the screen w/ equal contrast and balance.
Peace
-
Looking at the pics posted, not the original fullsized, I prefer C.
A looks too thin/washed-out even slightly over-exposed while
B looks over saturated, particularly in the yellow shirt
C is a little thin but not nearly as much as A
Those impressions are using a large CRT monitor. When I opened the laptop to view them on an LCD, I got a nice place holder from flickr stating "this photo is currently unavailable" but the full sized image is accessible and it doesn't suffer from the same fate I see on the CRT. Haven't open the other two yet on the LCD and none of the full sized on the CRT. My choice may change after I look at all three on both screens.
<edit 1 full size image on LCD, I prefer B </edit 1>
<edit 2 full size image on CRT, I still prefer B but C is almost as pleasing and is much closer to B than when I view C on the LCD.
Incidentally, I voted for C in the poll, that was only after viewing the small pics on the CRT. After viewing the full sized images, I would switch my vote to B. My CRT has never been calibrated which probably has some baring on my choice. Wish I knew what the actual color of the shirt is. I'm not gonna guess the software used since I right clicked and saw that info. </edit 2>
A loses and B wins on both CRT and LCD while C more resembles A on the LCD but is much closer to B on the CRT. Which screen I viewed the images on didn't have a big affect on my choice of which I preferrd overall but it did make a big difference in how I saw image C. There may be a bigger difference on what the image is viewed on than what software is used to produce the image.
Interesting comparison. Thanks for posting.
-
Thanks,
The image links should be fixed. Sorry about that.
This is going to be very interesting.
-
going from best to worst
B I am guessing CS3/Adobe Camera Raw
This one has the most detail/definition, and the focus is much better than the other two. It is oversaturated on the yellow shirt slightly, but the exposure is perfect. Lots of detail.
C I am guessing Aperature
Focus is lost, and the exposure looks a tad lacking. However, I think the color representation may be the best in this one, if the exposure was just a tad better
A I am guessing Nikon Capture NX!
To me, the detail and focus are both lost in this one, the color is much weaker, and lacks definition.
I guessed based on what I have read. I have only used CS2/Camera raw with Canon. I do not like the DPP with the canon a whole lot (but that may just be lack of experience) However, I will say there is a lot of blogs etc saying that the Capture NX! is actually the best to convert raw prior to doing minor edits in CS3. So if i had a second guess(provided i am wrong in my first guess)..i would says B = NX! C = Camera Raw and A = Aperature
intersted thread sanjay! i hope phanophish and Frank jump in, since they both shoot Nikon...could have more insight.
-
B would be my choice as it is the only image that retains all of the highlights. The others both loose the detail on the bench. I'll agree with the slightly over saturated comments, but I like the rich colors so might be a bit biased there as well.
-
Can't weigh in, no pictures! Question though: Can the Nikon D2X Modes be used in Aperture? I've been using Capture NX with D2X Mode I and Mode III almost exclusively. Also, does it give you control over Active D-Lighting?
-
Can't weigh in, no pictures! Question though: Can the Nikon D2X Modes be used in Aperture? I've been using Capture NX with D2X Mode I and Mode III almost exclusively. Also, does it give you control over Active D-Lighting?
I don't have any f-ing Idea why the pictures keep becoming unavailable, but they should be back. Thanks!
I believe that only Capture NX will give you control over Active D Lighting, I could be wrong.
-
Not sure if its my screen or my eye site but "C" stands out to me like a sore thumb. The colors are clear and the picture comes out of the screen w/ equal contrast and balance.
Peace
I amde my choice before you added links to the actual pictures working/nonworking and based only on the pics you posted. ;D
Peace
-
I still don't have a clue! Everything looks like crap on my monitor at work, but the hue and saturation of the second one is obviously different and greater than the other two. But even on a good monitor I don't think I know enough to tell which is which.
-
Couldn't tell you which tool was used because I don't have experience with all those tools. As far as color correctness goes, I'd have to go with "A". Especially in the color of the jeans. In "B", the jeans have a purplish hue to them. In "C", the blue seems a little off. This is based off the full size images.
-
I like B>C>A
-
B, hands down.
-
B>A>C
B - looks well balanced. the yellow on his shirt looks correct.
A - too dark in spots, but i see the most detail in his jeans. the curve on the left side of the bench looks pixelated.
C - ground tiles look too light, not much detail in the bench he's sitting on, and i don't like the color of his jeans
-
Tough to make a call on color representation, since I wasn't there for the original scene, but...
A -- a bit brighter / washed out relative to B, but the blues in the jeans look right to me
B -- most contrast of the three, perhaps a bit more detail (though maybe the added contrast is fooling me), but the blues in the jeans look a bit purple to me
C -- most washed out / softest of the bunch, blue jeans look a bit too blue
At first glance, on my Dell Latitude laptop, I prefer B.
-
Well, it's a nice test in that it stretches the correct exposure more than 2 stops between foreground and background. But it would seem more a test of the camera's program mode than the Raw Converters.
Seems the D300 camera was in "Pattern" mode at f11/400th/320 ISO. A little "hot" for me. I think all of these raw processors would have done better if "Program" mode had come off this shot half a stop. It's trying to save the background and sacrificing detail in the foreground. Capture NX (b) is saturating a bit more for punch, I guess.
a. This is CS3
b. This is Catpture NX
c. Aperture, I guess!
Which do I prefer? A or B. I use Adobe Lightroom...I only see the Raw Conversion as a first step and then it's all about ease of use in adjusting sets of photos to the look the way I want. C is washed out, but again, coming off the shot a half stop would fix that.
-
Well, it's a nice test in that it stretches the correct exposure more than 2 stops between foreground and background. But it would seem more a test of the camera's program mode than the Raw Converters.
Seems the D300 camera was in "Pattern" mode at f11/400th/320 ISO. A little "hot" for me. I think all of these raw processors would have done better if "Program" mode had come off this shot half a stop. It's trying to save the background and sacrificing detail in the foreground. Capture NX (b) is saturating a bit more for punch, I guess.
a. This is CS3
b. This is Catpture NX
c. Aperture, I guess!
Which do I prefer? A or B. I use Adobe Lightroom...I only see the Raw Conversion as a first step and then it's all about ease of use in adjusting sets of photos to the look the way I want. C is washed out, but again, coming off the shot a half stop would fix that.
Good observations. I did shoot it in P mode, honestly it was just a snapshot and I used the first picture I pulled off my camera. That said, does the pattern mode really make a difference in how it's converted from RAW to JPG? Since it was a shitty shot, I didn't think it tried to compensate and it just converted them as they were recorded and if I wanted to change it, I could. Maybe I'm wrong, but by this same observation wouldn't the RAW converter or program screw with shots taken at dusk and concerts to try and autocorrect against the settings I had? If so then I might need to start shooting in RAW and JPG to compare the two. I admit I'm very green on this whole thing and have basically been using Adobe Bridge and cs2/cs3 for 2.5 years and nothing else...
That said good observations, you were the first to get it completely right.
And to Brian, for color representation, in the original scene, his shirt was ungodly bright yellow, which is why i took the picture, however his jeans were not that purple and in the camera's viewfinder do not look that purple either.
-
I prefer C. It has the best balance between shadows and highlights (watched on a samsung 713bm lcd screen with no color calibration at all).
-
It's been a week and since we already had a correct answer.
It's
A. CS3
B. Nikon Capture NX
C. Aperture
-
There's a minor issue with doing this comparison online: the color profiles of all three photos are different. The first is Adobe RGB, 2nd is Nikon Adobe RGB (Nikon's version of Adobe RGB) and the last is sRGB.
Only the last image has the correct profile for the web, which is sRGB and for this to be a better comparison all images should've been posted with that profile.
This is important because not all browsers currently interpret images correctly based on the embedded profiles and most assume that all images are in the sRGB profile. This could lead to images using Adobe RGB (and other profiles other than sRGB) to be show incorrectly by browsers compared to what you might see in an application that properly manages color spaces, such as Photoshop, Capture NX, Aperture, Lightroom, etc.
In this case, not only are the images different due to the the raw rendering of all the applications, but also due to the incorrect rendering of your particular browser and the platform you are on (gamma difference between Mac and PC).
For example, some people mentioned that B looks too saturated, especially in the yellow shirt. It looks like that too me as well using Safari on the Mac, but in Photoshop the Nikon Adobe RGB (same as regular Adobe RGB) color profile displays it less saturated and the yellow is more mellow.
Anyway, just something to keep in mind. For best result, save all images for the web using (or convert to) the sRGB color profile.
Personally, I prefer the Aperture version. I find that it renders the most neutral image with the most realistic colors with decent contrast and corresponds to the Neutral Picture Control of the D300. Then again, Aperture is my main photo application so I could be a bit biased. ;)
Also, Capture NX is the only application out of the three that can read the internal Picture Controls in the D300, so B is probably closest to what you saw on the camera LCD. From the looks of it, the camera was set to Standard which creates rich images, maybe a bit too saturated, with skin tones that are a bit too "gummy" and smooth for my taste.
-
It's been a week and since we already had a correct answer.
It's
A. CS3
B. Nikon Capture NX
C. Aperture
i liked A best. i think it's got more details (eg looking at the ground tile). B seems too vibrant & C just has less detail compared to A.
Curious though, which one would you say was closer to the actual color of that guys shirt?
-
Just curious, did anyone calibrate with a spectrophotometer on the monitor before the comparison?
Which one?
The difference in blue / red saturation on A & B surprised me. There seems to be a definite skew between them.
Sanjay, is A (Photoshop CS3) the most accurate on the shirt color? ...what would be my wager.
RGB is always something of an annoyance to me. Too many players, too many "standards", and the gamut differences are astronomical.
Sanjay probably has nightmares of these from school-
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b0/Gamut_rgb.png/128px-Gamut_rgb.png)
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d6/Gamut_nature.png/128px-Gamut_nature.png)
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/d/d3/CIExy1931_srgb_gamut.png/240px-CIExy1931_srgb_gamut.png)
-
I honestly never took more than a basic photography class in school, I just taught myself and snuck into darkrooms after hours.
Cools you are right, I did not notice or account for the profiles in the jpegs, that was my bad. However my monitor is calibrated, and I came to many of the same conclusions, however despite this my workflow favors using bridge > PS3 so I never changed anything.
I guess we can call this a flawed comparison.
-
damn sanjay! your website looks great! i just looked it over fully, im very impressed.
sorry for the thread jacking..
-
I guess we can call this a flawed comparison.
All comparisons are flawed, the fact that we see significant differences is a good sign that this is a valid comparison. ...especially since it is your workflow, which counts the greatest. Occam's Razor or something much like it...
Hey, I'm still trying to find a copy of Phase One's Capture One to play with.
A few of my clients have it, but I never get a chance to play on it. :'(
I like the shot anyhow, and the comp is interesting.
Your website is great! You've been keeping busy.
There's so much on the road to the elusive "artistic value" in photography.
-
Are you on mac or PC? I think I may have a mac version around here from my old employer, he was a huge fan of it.
Thanks for the compliments on the website, I really need to spend a few days and really hone the portfolio since I want to do more photojournalism and less event stuff. I also want a chance to break out more of my Medium format stuff, but then I need a good scanner and it just goes on and on....
Send me some of your photography sometime, I'd love to see it! And Jim keep up your good work you do awesome concert stuff.
-
Macs, PCs, Linux, Sparcs, SGI, ...all sorts of toys and relics around the shop.
At home I lean toward PC so that I can access work apps, but I really should put more time into a dedicated graphics station.
At work, I get to drive other folks' machines allot. Sort like being the garage attendant at the fanciest restaurant in town, except that I have to go to them. ;D
Recent years I've been disappointed with my composition.
When my mentor passed away a while back, my zeal drifted away like a ghost.
I keep feeling like I will get it back.
I will get it back, damn it! JazzFest2009, baby!
Anyhow, I'll see if I can put some of my stuff up before I leave town.
I have some Tri-X Pan from 1974 that's dying to get out of it's glassine. ;D
-
B looks the best to my eye.