Topic: Audio DVD Creator Interesting Observation

[mhibbs]

If I burn a 24/96 fileset in Audio DVD Creator, my DVD player WILL output a 96khz signal via the optical out.  I was under the impression that most consumer players wouldn't output more than 48khz via the digital out.  If I play a store bought DVD-A disc, it does appear to be limited to 48khz and I have to change to analog to get the full resolution using the DAC of the player instead of my Denon receiver.  Does the DVD-V spec allow for high-res digi output?


mitch

[Lil Kim Jong-Il]

If I burn a 24/96 fileset in Audio DVD Creator, my DVD player WILL output a 96khz signal via the optical out.  I was under the impression that most consumer players wouldn't output more than 48khz via the digital out.  If I play a store bought DVD-A disc, it does appear to be limited to 48khz and I have to change to analog to get the full resolution using the DAC of the player instead of my Denon receiver.  Does the DVD-V spec allow for high-res digi output?


mitch

Both specs will allow digital output at all supported rates.  There is some DRM issue - perhaps in the DVD authoring itself or your particular deck treats the two formats differently.  If you could get a DVDA authored in wavelab or discwelder, you could test to see if your player is just blindly prohibiting the 96K digital output for DVDA formatted disks. 

[mhibbs]

I kinda thought it might be a DRM thing...and I'd try what you suggest, except I made 5 coasters last night trying to make a f$%kin DVD-A in Wavelab that my player would actually play.  Apparently my player likes DVD+R and DVD-R media as long as you are creating a DVD video disc.  Making a DVD-A in Wavelab on +R media results in a disc that causes my player to just cycle the laser back and forth until I eject the disc (tried it on a friends' player...same story).  Burning a DVD-A in Wavelab on -R media causes the onscreen menu to recognize DVD Audio, but it never boots the menu and never plays (didn't get to try this on another player).  I can load the -R disc on my computer and goto the Tools>Import DVD-Audio tracks function in Wavelab, and it detects the disc as a DVD-A, sees the menu, can skip among tracks, etc....points back to my player.  I just find it interesting that I've never burned a single DVD video on ANY media that it won't play, and I can't seem to burn a single DVD-A that it will.  After a significant amount of frustration and a bottle of red wine, I downloaded Audio DVD Creator and plan to use it until I feel the need to record at 192, or until I can isolate the problem to my player and not my authoring process.


mitch 

[Lil Kim Jong-Il]

well, one more vote in favor of audio-DVD-creator then.  ;-)

I was looking around on google last night and I could not find any indication that there is a specific DRM control in the DVD data format that would configure output port behaviors (which is sort of what I expected).  I suspect that your player just looks at the DVD-A and if it is CSS protected, then it blocks 24/96 at the digital out.  That seems like the most simple solution to implement.

If you do get a DVD-A made by someone on here that plays in your unit, I am very interested to know if it puts out the 24/96. 

[wboswell]

After a significant amount of frustration and a bottle of red wine, I downloaded Audio DVD Creator and plan to use it until I feel the need to record at 192, or until I can isolate the problem to my player and not my authoring process.


mitch 

As mentioned before, I can't come up with a reason to use anything other than audio dvd creator at the moment.  Wavelab's process/product had me speaking in tongues with eyes rolling in the back of my head...

[NewHomebrew]

As mentioned before, I can't come up with a reason to use anything other than audio dvd creator at the moment.  Wavelab's process/product had me speaking in tongues with eyes rolling in the back of my head...

I'm glad I'm not the only one.  Wavelab is giving me fits with all this montage business.  I actually turned here to ask a Wavelab question but I'll try this other program instead.

[Ray76]

As mentioned before, I can't come up with a reason to use anything other than audio dvd creator at the moment.  Wavelab's process/product had me speaking in tongues with eyes rolling in the back of my head...

I'm glad I'm not the only one.  Wavelab is giving me fits with all this montage business.  I actually turned here to ask a Wavelab question but I'll try this other program instead.

The montage feature is easy with wavelab. Cant speak for DVDA..
pm me if you need help with montage ...

[NewHomebrew]

Thanks Ray, my main question is, do you add track marks when you are making your montage?

[Ray76]

Thanks Ray, my main question is, do you add track marks when you are making your montage?

no...i just mix there...track in CD wave.

[NewHomebrew]

Ok, I got it.  So you need to make a montage for each song if you want it to appear as a separate track?

[Ray76]

Ok, I got it.  So you need to make a montage for each song if you want it to appear as a separate track?

i never montaged em seperately....I always transferred the complete file to wavelab, opened new audio montage...mixed and rendered the whole file, saved and then opened in CD Wave..

Teddy

[sygdwm]

what i do is open the first wave. then edit>create audio montage from wav>right-click the area to the right of the first wav in the montage window>insert audio files>set gaps to 0 where the "wand" is>save>author dvd-a. thats the short version.

[Ray76]

what i do is open the first wave. then edit>create audio montage from wav>right-click the area to the right of the first wav in the montage window>insert audio files>set gaps to 0 where the "wand" is>save>author dvd-a. thats the short version.

is there a demo version of audio dvd creator??i dont want to spend money on something that my brain cant comprehend..

[sygdwm]

sorry i was referrring to wavelab5.

Ok, I got it. So you need to make a montage for each song if you want it to appear as a separate track?

i tried to answer this question. i know nothing of audio dvd creator other than people simply use this for compatabilty of their dvd-a players.

[Lil Kim Jong-Il]

is there a demo version of audio dvd creator??i dont want to spend money on something that my brain cant comprehend..

Yes.  An unregistered version has some limitations, such as the number of tracks but will allow you to author audio DVDs.

i know nothing of audio dvd creator other than people simply use this for compatabilty of their dvd-a players.

I use it because
- it is $60 less than the least expensive DVDA authoring software (excluding the newer OSS stuff that is still in alpha)
- although I have a DVDA capable player, many people do not and I want wider compatability especially for the stuff I give away
- based on what I've read about wavelab and discwelder here, audio DVD creator is much much easier to use. 

[nickgregory]

I use it because
- it is $60 less than the least expensive DVDA authoring software (excluding the newer OSS stuff that is still in alpha)
- although I have a DVDA capable player, many people do not and I want wider compatability especially for the stuff I give away
- based on what I've read about wavelab and discwelder here, audio DVD creator is much much easier to use.

agree with this wholeheartedly....the ease of use is significant imo as well

[sygdwm]

touche. i know the wavelab learning curve was steep at first as noone showed me i had to figure it out myself. and yes i have a *demo* copy. i dont have anyone locally who has 24bit playback capability, so i never run in to that.

[Ray76]

is there a demo version of audio dvd creator??i dont want to spend money on something that my brain cant comprehend..

Yes.  An unregistered version has some limitations, such as the number of tracks but will allow you to author audio DVDs.

i know nothing of audio dvd creator other than people simply use this for compatabilty of their dvd-a players.

I use it because
- it is $60 less than the least expensive DVDA authoring software (excluding the newer OSS stuff that is still in alpha)
- although I have a DVDA capable player, many people do not and I want wider compatability especially for the stuff I give away- based on what I've read about wavelab and discwelder here, audio DVD creator is much much easier to use. 

Does that mean that you can create discs with it that can be played on a normal dvd player??

Teddy

[nickgregory]

Does that mean that you can create discs with it that can be played on a normal dvd player??

yes

[Ray76]

Does that mean that you can create discs with it that can be played on a normal dvd player??

yes

I see. Thanks Nick. Thats interesting, as I dont have a dvda player.+T

[sygdwm]

I see. Thanks Nick. Thats interesting, as I dont have a dvda player.+T

ray- ever thought of turning your spending spree into playback? just curious.

[Ray76]

I see. Thanks Nick. Thats interesting, as I dont have a dvda player.+T

ray- ever thought of turning your spending spree into playback? just curious.

Oh yeah. Ive got my eyes on Brian Costigans corals for starters. Im finished with the recording gear for a good long while. Its right where i want it.
ima grab one of those 4960s too..

[sygdwm]

fwiw. pioneer makes a great dvd-a player (mine is 563a). no problems w/ buffer/gaps/compatabilty. little more $ though. its now my universal. couldnt be happier.

[Ray76]

fwiw. pioneer makes a great dvd-a player (mine is 563a). no problems w/ buffer/gaps/compatabilty. little more $ though. its now my universal. couldnt be happier.

i will certainly look into that one as well. Thanks bud.

[Ray76]

ray, you're getting into playback?  lookout audiogon   this'll be your bathroom rig in a few months

 

Well, lifes too short to not have what you want when you can get it...

Ive been really blessed this past year...Specially with your ill decided gear sell.

hows your gear comin Jason?

[TenoRichards]

...do you add track marks when you are making your montage?

Hey guys. Coming late to the party am I..... Ray, move to Berlin went w/out a hitch. Being phoneless and internet-less is cause for the heeby-jeebies though. Tosca starts in a couple weeks. You BETTER be coming to tape it! Tix are on me.

You certainly CAN track easily in Wavelab 5. I lu-huv the Montage in it. No, making a montage for each song would be the wrong way to go. Can't imagine the batch processor time that would take! The thing one needs to remember is that editing in Montage is a great way to keep processing time to a minimum; rather than rendering each step of the way you are editing non-destructively to the original file. The .mon is its own seperate file, which references the original .wavs.

Tracking is super easy, just as easy as CDWav. Actually, I like it much more as it's precision is easier to manage for me. Make sure you check the option quantize to CD frame, though. I DO add the track marks in the Montage arena. You can choose to also add them into a new render of the montage (into a new .wav file) for later editing in another program, or just ease of use.

If you are working w/ different files, you would just use "add file" feature, placing your cursor into the montage wherever you want the file/song to go. This would be useful in making a compilation disc, but in live recordings you most likely would have added the entire .wav, then track from there. When you have added an entire live recording, it's soooo easy to then make compilations, as you can edit out, create crossfades, all sorts of coolio sh*t, and NOT touch the original file. I find the Montage helpful cuz I will record seperate evenings of the same opera, and can listen to interpretations of different nites easily, using a different track for each nite. Very helpful for me to have each file right beside each other.

My 2 pfennig. Ich bin ein Berliner!!!
Andrew

[Ray76]

...do you add track marks when you are making your montage?

Hey guys. Coming late to the party am I..... Ray, move to Berlin went w/out a hitch. Being phoneless and internet-less is cause for the heeby-jeebies though. Tosca starts in a couple weeks. You BETTER be coming to tape it! Tix are on me.

You certainly CAN track easily in Wavelab 5. I lu-huv the Montage in it. No, making a montage for each song would be the wrong way to go. Can't imagine the batch processor time that would take! The thing one needs to remember is that editing in Montage is a great way to keep processing time to a minimum; rather than rendering each step of the way you are editing non-destructively to the original file. The .mon is its own seperate file, which references the original .wavs.

Tracking is super easy, just as easy as CDWav. Actually, I like it much more as it's precision is easier to manage for me. Make sure you check the option quantize to CD frame, though. I DO add the track marks in the Montage arena. You can choose to also add them into a new render of the montage (into a new .wav file) for later editing in another program, or just ease of use.

If you are working w/ different files, you would just use "add file" feature, placing your cursor into the montage wherever you want the file/song to go. This would be useful in making a compilation disc, but in live recordings you most likely would have added the entire .wav, then track from there. When you have added an entire live recording, it's soooo easy to then make compilations, as you can edit out, create crossfades, all sorts of coolio sh*t, and NOT touch the original file. I find the Montage helpful cuz I will record seperate evenings of the same opera, and can listen to interpretations of different nites easily, using a different track for each nite. Very helpful for me to have each file right beside each other.

My 2 pfennig. Ich bin ein Berliner!!!
Andrew

Hey Andrew.
I think they were saying that the tracks created in wavelab werent properly aligned on sector boundaries..

[Ray76]

i bought the damn dvd audio creator today and cant get the fuiggin thing to work.

freezes up when writing the first track.

ima email and ask for my 39 bucks back.

[sygdwm]

do you have wavelab5 ray?

[Ray76]

do you have wavelab5 ray?

I sure do partner.

Only thing is my dvd player isnt dvdacompliant ..

i need to upgrade...

shit.

[sygdwm]

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pna/product/detail/0,,2076_15020669_2046370,00.html

prices vary. youre overseas so i didnt really search. this thing plays everything i throw at it. gapless!

[nickgregory]

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pna/product/detail/0,,2076_15020669_2046370,00.html

prices vary. youre overseas so i didnt really search. this thing plays everything i throw at it. gapless!

if your going to get a unit at this price point I would suggest a pioneer elite DV-45A...smoking unit...just got one...you will see them pop up anywhere from $219-$300...plays everything I have thrown at it and has a fantastic picture.

as for your problems with DVD-Audio Creator, I would shut down, restart, use different 24 bit files...there must be something that is causing it outside of the ordinary as so many of us use it without a problem

[Ray76]

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pna/product/detail/0,,2076_15020669_2046370,00.html

prices vary. youre overseas so i didnt really search. this thing plays everything i throw at it. gapless!

'

thanks yall.

ill order one of those two  tonite.ive heard others mention them, so they gotta be solid. ive read somewhere that pioneer makes the best laser products or has the best laser or something....
ill try thy dvd audio creator again. thank again yall.

[sygdwm]

i paid 175 for mine at bb when they first came out. best money ive spent on my mid-fi playback. i use it as my universal.

[nickgregory]

i paid 175 for mine at bb when they first came out. best money ive spent on my mid-fi playback. i use it as my universal.

good price..on the elite, there was an outfit selling them new on audiogon a couple of weeks ago when I got mine...$219...hi fi heaven I believe it was...authorized pioneer dealer...

[Lil Kim Jong-Il]

I recall other people having problems writing from within the audio-dvd-creator context.  I don't do that.  I use it to author the DVD filesystem structure onto a networked volume and use xcdroast on that machine to burn.  You can do the essentially same thing.  I recommend writing the authored DVD title set to a folder on your local harddrive, then use DVD-decryptor to write the DVD.  Other people use something like Nero, but any program that will write the contents of a folder to DVD will work.

[Ray76]

I recall other people having problems writing from within the audio-dvd-creator context.  I don't do that.  I use it to author the DVD filesystem structure onto a networked volume and use xcdroast on that machine to burn.  You can do the essentially same thing.  I recommend writing the authored DVD title set to a folder on your local harddrive, then use DVD-decryptor to write the DVD.  Other people use something like Nero, but any program that will write the contents of a folder to DVD will work.

oh..didnt know i could do that!
thanks man.

[nickgregory]

I have used Audio DVD to author and write in teh same process and have had no problems...ymmv

[Ray76]

it maybe has something to do with my pIII pc.

its alright my 64 bit one is almost finished...but this one is 2 yrs old.

[dklein]

A little late (and I hate wavelab too) but there is an easy way to get the montage going if you've already tracked in CDWave.  Here's my cheat sheet

1.  create a cue sheet that refers to the 24 bit file (use CDWave)
2.  file, open, import cue sheet as audio montage
3.  set mode to dvd-audio, add track titles if you want them in the menu (under the DVD-A tab) and save the montage
4.  file, new dvd audio project
5.  click on the green + sign to add the montages
6.  functions, settings and set the title – keep it short so it’ll fit onscreen
7.  set all the menu stuff up (view safe area)
8.  Save the project
9.  function, create and set to ignore so no plugins will be applied to the data

The reason I'm still doing this is because I record in 24/44.1 and have a DVD-A capable player so I can get my 24 bit without any SRC.  I suppose someday soon I'll cut over to 48k (or 96).