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Gear / Technical Help => Post-Processing, Computer / Streaming / Internet Devices & Related Activity => Topic started by: balou2 on March 03, 2006, 07:44:23 PM
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Getting ready to start multitracking. I'm undecided on what to get, therefore don't have a specific budget to work with. I am NOT thinking about breaking the bank on this.
What are your recommendations? I'll be in the field, and my laptop will be small. Looking at both USB and Firewire at this point.
- Edirol FA-101 looks nice. Not too expensive, and does 10 channels.
- M-Audio 18/14
What else?
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I would avoid M-audio products. I can provide horror stories if you like.
Metric Halo is Mac only, as far as I know
Edirol products are somewhat suspect in build quality (resampling digital input, crappy preamps - that's why people buy them and have them modded)
Buy RME and you won't regret it. I'd recommend the multiface for 18in/18 out or the Fireface.
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I like the RME unit, but that is too much for my bank right now. Thanks though.
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Look at the multiface. they're 350-400 used and are 18in/18out. no preamps (8 line in, 8 lightpipe, spdif) but outstaning converters. also very flexible for upgrading down the line. i'm assuming you're looking at a device to do 2 audience mics and 2 sbd lines only?
i use a multi as my home sound card. rock solid and very clean. it's worth the extra $100 or so you'd sink into it on the front end.
Dirk
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Look at the multiface. they're 350-400 used and are 18in/18out. no preamps (8 line in, 8 lightpipe, spdif) but outstaning converters. also very flexible for upgrading down the line. i'm assuming you're looking at a device to do 2 audience mics and 2 sbd lines only?
i use a multi as my home sound card. rock solid and very clean. it's worth the extra $100 or so you'd sink into it on the front end.
Dirk
Thanks Dirk. Actually, I'm not looking for something for board and mics. The UA-5 will do that. I'm just looking for something that will allow me to go 8-12 tracks, directly to a laptop. I would love to get a fatty HD multitrack recorder, but the ones in my budget are not enough. The Fostex I looked at is 8 track, but only let's you do 4 simultaneously. I'd like to run mics on stage (8-12 of them) specifically. Many of the boards I record from are "full" and only allow for a matrix out, which frankly just doesn't sound good since the mix is to the house sound. I could EASILY improve the mix by taking a multi-track stage mix, and running board mix of the vocals. I can combine in post. Does the RME run USB or Firewire out? For some reason I want to think it runs on PCI card.
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Anybody worked with MOTU equipment? The new MOTU Ultralite looks like a good option.
http://www.motu.com/products/motuaudio/ultralite (http://www.motu.com/products/motuaudio/ultralite)
The Traveler looks sweet too, and can run on a battery, both via firewire and standalone as a mixer.
I've not worked with MOTU, only heard their rep, which is fine. Comments?
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I think someone here (steve j?) uses the motu.
I was going to suggest the lynx aes 15 but.. :-\
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I think someone here (steve j?) uses the motu.
I was going to suggest the lynx aes 15 but.. :-\
I see the Lynx AES16, but not a 15. Are they the same animal? The AES 16 is a PCI card. I'd still need an interface to support multi-track inputs (I'm looking for AT LEAST 8, but preferable 10 or more) so this wouldn't work, I don't think. I like Lynx product though....
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Look at the multiface. they're 350-400 used and are 18in/18out. no preamps (8 line in, 8 lightpipe, spdif) but outstaning converters. also very flexible for upgrading down the line. i'm assuming you're looking at a device to do 2 audience mics and 2 sbd lines only?
i use a multi as my home sound card. rock solid and very clean. it's worth the extra $100 or so you'd sink into it on the front end.
Dirk
Thanks Dirk. Actually, I'm not looking for something for board and mics. The UA-5 will do that. I'm just looking for something that will allow me to go 8-12 tracks, directly to a laptop. I would love to get a fatty HD multitrack recorder, but the ones in my budget are not enough. The Fostex I looked at is 8 track, but only let's you do 4 simultaneously. I'd like to run mics on stage (8-12 of them) specifically. Many of the boards I record from are "full" and only allow for a matrix out, which frankly just doesn't sound good since the mix is to the house sound. I could EASILY improve the mix by taking a multi-track stage mix, and running board mix of the vocals. I can combine in post. Does the RME run USB or Firewire out? For some reason I want to think it runs on PCI card.
Multiface/multiset runs proprietary firewire cable to a PCMCIA card. It really doesn't get any better than this, IMO.
8 analog line inputs, 8 inputs via ADAT lightpipe and 2 SPDIF inputs.
If you're taking the lines off the direct outs of a console, this is the ideal device. Like I said, I use mine as my home soundcard. Have my DAT plugged into the SPDIF input, and several other things (cassette deck, FM, XM, etc) plugged into the other various line inputs. In the field I'm using an Alesis HD24, but that's probably not something you're looking for.
Another option is the Echo Layla.
I'd skip Lynx - they're top of the line but probably out of your price range (based on your first response above).
MOTU is decent overall, but their preamps are poor quality. The D/A conversion is great though.
Dirk
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yeah i fat fingered...aes 16.
I think someone here (steve j?) uses the motu.
I was going to suggest the lynx aes 15 but.. :-\
I see the Lynx AES16, but not a 15. Are they the same animal? The AES 16 is a PCI card. I'd still need an interface to support multi-track inputs (I'm looking for AT LEAST 8, but preferable 10 or more) so this wouldn't work, I don't think. I like Lynx product though....
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Look at the multiface. they're 350-400 used and are 18in/18out. no preamps (8 line in, 8 lightpipe, spdif) but outstaning converters. also very flexible for upgrading down the line. i'm assuming you're looking at a device to do 2 audience mics and 2 sbd lines only?
i use a multi as my home sound card. rock solid and very clean. it's worth the extra $100 or so you'd sink into it on the front end.
Dirk
Thanks Dirk. Actually, I'm not looking for something for board and mics. The UA-5 will do that. I'm just looking for something that will allow me to go 8-12 tracks, directly to a laptop. I would love to get a fatty HD multitrack recorder, but the ones in my budget are not enough. The Fostex I looked at is 8 track, but only let's you do 4 simultaneously. I'd like to run mics on stage (8-12 of them) specifically. Many of the boards I record from are "full" and only allow for a matrix out, which frankly just doesn't sound good since the mix is to the house sound. I could EASILY improve the mix by taking a multi-track stage mix, and running board mix of the vocals. I can combine in post. Does the RME run USB or Firewire out? For some reason I want to think it runs on PCI card.
Multiface/multiset runs proprietary firewire cable to a PCMCIA card. It really doesn't get any better than this, IMO.
8 analog line inputs, 8 inputs via ADAT lightpipe and 2 SPDIF inputs.
If you're taking the lines off the direct outs of a console, this is the ideal device. Like I said, I use mine as my home soundcard. Have my DAT plugged into the SPDIF input, and several other things (cassette deck, FM, XM, etc) plugged into the other various line inputs. In the field I'm using an Alesis HD24, but that's probably not something you're looking for.
Another option is the Echo Layla.
I'd skip Lynx - they're top of the line but probably out of your price range (based on your first response above).
MOTU is decent overall, but their preamps are poor quality. The D/A conversion is great though.
Dirk
Hmmm...interesting. What is the power situation like? Is it bus powered? Can it run from a batter? I checked the site, but didn't find a reference. I'd like to be able to use it as standalone -> 2track also.
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Look at the multiface. they're 350-400 used and are 18in/18out. no preamps (8 line in, 8 lightpipe, spdif) but outstaning converters. also very flexible for upgrading down the line. i'm assuming you're looking at a device to do 2 audience mics and 2 sbd lines only?
i use a multi as my home sound card. rock solid and very clean. it's worth the extra $100 or so you'd sink into it on the front end.
Dirk
Have you seen any used ones recently?
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http://cgi.ebay.com/Nuendo-Multiset-Rme-Multiface-and-pci-card_W0QQitemZ7394175528QQcategoryZ41784QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
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http://cgi.ebay.com/Nuendo-Multiset-Rme-Multiface-and-pci-card_W0QQitemZ7394175528QQcategoryZ41784QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
+t Teddy.
I'll watch this over night and see how much it goes up.
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http://cgi.ebay.com/Nuendo-Multiset-Rme-Multiface-and-pci-card_W0QQitemZ7394175528QQcategoryZ41784QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
+t Teddy.
I'll watch this over night and see how much it goes up.
id hammersnipe that thing.
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Power is 12V, I believe. There are SLAs that will do the job, and there are also a good number of Li-Ion packs out there that will deliver voltage.
If you connect it to the PCI card, it's self powered through the proprietary firewire. Only for the desktop interface, unfortunately.
One thing to reiterate before you "hammersnipe" one though - the Multiface does not have any preamps built in. So if you're not feeding it line level signals you'll need a preamp on those channels.
Way back when, before I had the multitrack setup I have now, I did run the Multiset without any preamps. If you're running at 24bit you're mostly OK with mic level signals because they can be boosted with minimal noise in post. You have no input level control though.
I did a number of live shows like this though, so it's not really a problem. It's not ideal, but it's not so bad either.
Dirk
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Thanks for all the advice. I missed the above listed unit, but may look at another. If not, I think it'll be one of the MOTU units. They both (Ultralite and Traveler) look pretty sweet.
+t's all around!
Mike
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have you concidered the presonus firepod?
sweetwater has them for $499. a friend of mine just switched from a motu 828 (mk1) and says he prefers the firebox. said it has a better build and no issues with his win xp laptop. it has been getting good reviews on sweetwater user comments. not sure if it can be powered for field use though.
good luck and have fun
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have you concidered the presonus firepod?
sweetwater has them for $499. a friend of mine just switched from a motu 828 (mk1) and says he prefers the firebox. said it has a better build and no issues with his win xp laptop. it has been getting good reviews on sweetwater user comments. not sure if it can be powered for field use though.
good luck and have fun
I was just about to post the same thing. +t
Presonus Firepod is an excellent choice. In my opinion, MUCH better than MOTU in terms of preamp quality.
I have Digimax preamps in my multitrack rig (3 of them) and I also have a Firebox for smaller (2-6 channel) laptop recordings. Can't recommend them enough.
Dirk
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have you concidered the presonus firepod?
sweetwater has them for $499. a friend of mine just switched from a motu 828 (mk1) and says he prefers the firebox. said it has a better build and no issues with his win xp laptop. it has been getting good reviews on sweetwater user comments. not sure if it can be powered for field use though.
good luck and have fun
Emm...yummy. That's a sweet looking box. All the technical specs look great, AND it's got 8 mic/line level inputs, opposed to the other mentioned boxes which have mostly 1/4 inch inputs. I checked out the specs, and this will take 12-24 VDC or AC. I don't know that I'd use battery on this, only because I would be utilizing phantom for at least one of the subgroupings. Nice find...may have to reconsider. The only drawback I see is the mobility factor. The MOTU Ultralite is still the smallest...decisions, decisions.
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First, let me say that I would stay far away from the M-Audio 1814. I tried it out for a while and was never able to get the drivers to work properly to allow multitracking. Granted, I was working with a Windows lappy back then; but I was thoroughly unimpressed with M-Audio's support.
With regards to the Traveler: I agree that the pre's need work. As a matter of fact, I am sending my Traveler off to be modded (http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=54338.0http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=54338.0) later this week. Now that being said, I've had pretty much all positive experiences with the Traveler. I normally run only 6 channels (four mics and SBD L-R line in); but I have done ten channels successfully (8 lines in plus S/PDIF in from a MiniMe). Up to now, the only errors I've encountered have been user errors...and dumb ones at that.
I should point out that I am using a Powerbook G4 to run the setup, a switch I made before I got the MOTU. I just got tired of wrestling with Windoze's sporadic weirdness.
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I should point out that I am using a Powerbook G4 to run the setup
I think this is a key point when you're talking about MOTU. I've convinced 3 studio owners here in town to switch from their MOTUs to a Steinberg or other interface. All were on Windows platforms and were having hellish times with drivers, popping, cracking audio, and all kinds of other crazy shit. None of them wanted to believe it was the MOTU until I brought my Steinberg gear over and plugged it in. The minute I did, ALL their problems went away like magic.
So I guess maybe I wasn't the one doing the convincing - the hardware really spoke for itself. In my experience, MOTU has been crap on Windows. It has been working well for the one guy I know who runs a mac though.
This is not to say everyone on Windows has problems with MOTU; just that it seems a lot more common. Everything was designed for mac originally from what I understand. So naturally it runs solidly on that platform.
As always, take plenty of grains of salt with the above statements. YMMV. It always will.
Dirk
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If the lappy he's planning to use is Windoze-based, the MOTU would probably not be my first choice.
The minute I did, ALL their problems went away like magic.
Some might say they had the same problems sticking with a Windoze box. ;D
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If the lappy he's planning to use is Windoze-based, the MOTU would probably not be my first choice.
The minute I did, ALL their problems went away like magic.
Some might say they had the same problems sticking with a Windoze box. ;D
This is great advice. I would likely consider going back to MOTU and asking if they've had issues with MS platforms. I'm sure someone would give me the schoop. right now I've really thinking about the Presonus that Dirk mentioned. It's bigger than the Traveller, but I'll take bigger if the stability comes with it. I will most definitely be running Windows.
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I've really thinking about the Presonus that Dirk mentioned. It's bigger than the Traveller, but I'll take bigger if the stability comes with it.
Is it really bigger though? I thought the Traveler was a 1U box as well? IIRC they're the same size except for the rack ears...?
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I've really thinking about the Presonus that Dirk mentioned. It's bigger than the Traveller, but I'll take bigger if the stability comes with it.
Is it really bigger though? I thought the Traveler was a 1U box as well? IIRC they're the same size except for the rack ears...?
Whoops...my bad...I was thinking Ultralite. Thanks Dirk.