Topic: strange audacity issue creating a tao problem.

[dean]

So I downloaded this excellent torrent:  http://bt.etree.org/details.php?id=530339&viewcomm=442573#comm442573

It's 24/96, so after I decode the flac I open the wav in audacity.  I change the sample rate to 44.1 and export to 16bit and it's adding about 2 seconds to the end of each track in the new wav.

WTF?  I don't recall having this problem before.  Any ideas?

[page]

1) Are you resampling it during export or prior?
2) Is it already split? If so, if you combine two tracks and then export using labels, does it still create TAO style gaps?

[dean]

1) Are you resampling it during export or prior?
2) Is it already split? If so, if you combine two tracks and then export using labels, does it still create TAO style gaps?

Tracks are already split, so I'm doing this on an individual track basis.

For resample, I change the project rate from 96 to 44.1, then export.  (When I do this 16/48 > 16/44 I don't have this problem - though I'm always moving an entire file when I do that, as opposed to single tracks, as it's the result of a dat transfer).

[page]

1) Are you resampling it during export or prior?
2) Is it already split? If so, if you combine two tracks and then export using labels, does it still create TAO style gaps?

Tracks are already split, so I'm doing this on an individual track basis.

For resample, I change the project rate from 96 to 44.1, then export.  (When I do this 16/48 > 16/44 I don't have this problem - though I'm always moving an entire file when I do that, as opposed to single tracks, as it's the result of a dat transfer).

Combine two tracks in audacity and add a label in the middle and then do what you've been doing. My suspicion is you still get a gap at the end of one of the files but not the other (so bad tracking).

[dean]

1) Are you resampling it during export or prior?
2) Is it already split? If so, if you combine two tracks and then export using labels, does it still create TAO style gaps?

Tracks are already split, so I'm doing this on an individual track basis.

For resample, I change the project rate from 96 to 44.1, then export.  (When I do this 16/48 > 16/44 I don't have this problem - though I'm always moving an entire file when I do that, as opposed to single tracks, as it's the result of a dat transfer).

Combine two tracks in audacity and add a label in the middle and then do what you've been doing. My suspicion is you still get a gap at the end of one of the files but not the other (so bad tracking).

I'll give that a shot tomorrow night and report back.  What do you mean by "bad tracking"?  Also, thanks much for the troubleshooting, Page.   

[dean]

Combine two tracks in audacity and add a label in the middle and then do what you've been doing. My suspicion is you still get a gap at the end of one of the files but not the other (so bad tracking).

Exactly what happened.  Still got a gap at the end of the last track.  Also presented another problem, as when you export from 24 to 16 using Export Multiple it changes where your actual tracks begin.  Ugh.

So, seems like my options are:
1.  See if there's a 16 bit torrent available.
2.  Manually remove the extra space at the end of each track after I resample and dither.

Any other options you can think of?  Also, if you can explain the "bad tracking" comment I'd really appreciate it.

Thanks for you help, Page!

[fozzy]

don't use audacity?  [/sarcasm]

Is this a known bug or missing option that may have been fixed in newer audacity, seems like a legacy CD padding option that may need to be added/removed an an audacity option

[dean]

don't use audacity?  [/sarcasm]

Is this a known bug or missing option that may have been fixed in newer audacity, seems like a legacy CD padding option that may need to be added/removed an an audacity option

Yeah, I know Audacity ain't all that, but I'm cheap and lazy, and since it meets my needs 99.9% of the time it's hard to motivate myself to move on, you know?

And to prove my laziness even more, there's several newer versions of Audacity that I've yet to download, so I'm using a really old, crappy version.

[page]

1) update to the new version of audacity. Period.
2) I recomend pulling in all of the tracks and adding labels, then exporting the entire show. Put your last label about 1-2 seconds of the last track off (and make sure you set your labels according to the wiki so that they end the last track on a proper boundry.

My bad tracking remark was related to there seems to be (unfortunately) a drift and pad function that some editors use when doing dither. It's in the same vein as SBEs.

edit: i had a show where I had to repair a track on and exported just that track and had the same issue, while if I exported the entire project (export multiple I think) then I didn't since it was at the end of the last track.

[dean]

Awesome.  Thanks!

Question, if I download new audacity, what happens to the projects I have partially complete in old audacity?

[page]

Awesome.  Thanks!

Question, if I download new audacity, what happens to the projects I have partially complete in old audacity?

Should be ok. I don't think I ran into any issues when I upgraded. I know there isn't any problem going from the various 1.3 versions and up. Going back might be another story, but up isn't bad.

[morst]

It's 24/96, so after I decode the flac I open the wav in audacity.  I change the sample rate to 44.1 and export to 16bit and it's adding about 2 seconds to the end of each track in the new wav.

WTF?  I don't recall having this problem before.  Any ideas?

Audacity has always done this. Bugs the heck out of me, since I'd like to be able to track at 24/48 and convert individual files to 16/44.1. Perhaps this thread can help me!?

1) Are you resampling it during export or prior?
2) Is it already split? If so, if you combine two tracks and then export using labels, does it still create TAO style gaps?

The only way I have ever found to get audacity to resample is to export. How else could you do it? And I'm a little embarrassed to admit that I don't know jack about markers/labels, I always track by splitting.

Awesome.  Thanks!

Question, if I download new audacity, what happens to the projects I have partially complete in old audacity?

They work fine in the new one, but you may have to start by running the new version and then opening the project file.

[dean]

So now I'm having trouble with my own files, not just d/l's.  Looks like I'll have to track each show 2x - once in 24 bit, once in 16.   

[Kush]

Why not use r8brain for the resample/dither instead of audacity?

For your own files/recordings. Amplify, fades, etc. using Audacity and export as .wav. Track with cd wave and save using the 24 bit option. Then use r8brain batch for the resample and dither.

For downloaded torrents. Open r8brain and perform the batch resample and dither.

[dean]

Don't think r8brain runs on Mac, does it?

Why not use r8brain for the resample/dither instead of audacity?

For your own files/recordings. Amplify, fades, etc. using Audacity and export as .wav. Track with cd wave and save using the 24 bit option. Then use r8brain batch for the resample and dither.

For downloaded torrents. Open r8brain and perform the batch resample and dither.

[Kush]

I didn't know you were using a Mac, r8brain is Windows only, sorry.

[dean]

^ No sweat - I should have made note of that right away, actually.   

[SmokinJoe]

I noticed this same problem with Audacity a couple of years ago.  Stopped using it for resampling because of it.

In the back of my mind, I recall copying files from my Linux PC to my windows laptop and doing the conversion there, for some reason it worked better. Maybe a newer version of Audacity on the Windows at the time.

If I recall, I think it's not quite so bad if you do it in multiple steps.  Like:
load 24/96, save as 16/96
load 16/96, save as 16/44.

Now I use a program called "ssrc" which is a commandline program. I'm probably the only one here who uses it.  Free software, open source, runs very slowly, but seems to do a superior job. If you can compile C code on your Mac. http://shibatch.sourceforge.net/

[greenone]

It's 24/96, so after I decode the flac I open the wav in audacity.  I change the sample rate to 44.1 and export to 16bit and it's adding about 2 seconds to the end of each track in the new wav.

WTF?  I don't recall having this problem before.  Any ideas?

Audacity has always done this. Bugs the heck out of me, since I'd like to be able to track at 24/48 and convert individual files to 16/44.1. Perhaps this thread can help me!?

I'm using 1.3.6 on a Mac and have never run into this problem. Admittedly, I've only been running 24-bit for a couple months now, but I track once in 24-bit by dropping markers, then export multiple directly to FLAC from 24/48. Then I change the sample rate at bottom left and re-export multiple, selecting 16-bit with the options button. Never seen any padding of any kind.

[morst]

I'm using 1.3.6 on a Mac and have never run into this problem. Admittedly, I've only been running 24-bit for a couple months now, but I track once in 24-bit by dropping markers, then export multiple directly to FLAC from 24/48. Then I change the sample rate at bottom left and re-export multiple, selecting 16-bit with the options button. Never seen any padding of any kind.

Wow, cool, that works! Guess I'm a 1.3.6 guy now!!! Sweet! This saves me a LOT of hassle making 2448 filesets!

[greenone]

I'm guessing/hoping this works with 1.3.10 (the latest version) but haven't tried it yet. Dean, you PM'ed me yesterday to say this worked for you as well - are you on the latest version? I think the problem lies in exporting to WAV vs. exporting to FLAC, not 1.3.6 vs. other builds.

[dean]

I'm guessing/hoping this works with 1.3.10 (the latest version) but haven't tried it yet. Dean, you PM'ed me yesterday to say this worked for you as well - are you on the latest version? I think the problem lies in exporting to WAV vs. exporting to FLAC, not 1.3.6 vs. other builds.

Indeed, it worked on 1.3.10 on Mac!  Thanks for your help, as ever, Dave!!!

[greenone]

Bitchin'. Might as well upgrade while I'm at it...

EDIT: Check this out  - looks like it may have been isolated to 1.3.10 to begin with. Though it's not clear from your OP whether it was inserting silence or inserting the first two seconds of the following track.
http://forum.audacityteam.org/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=18847
http://forum.audacityteam.org/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=19154

[dean]

Bitchin'. Might as well upgrade while I'm at it...

EDIT: Check this out  - looks like it may have been isolated to 1.3.10 to begin with. Though it's not clear from your OP whether it was inserting silence or inserting the first two seconds of the following track.
http://forum.audacityteam.org/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=18847
http://forum.audacityteam.org/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=19154

1.3.10 inserts two seconds of the following track.  My ancient version (1.2.5, I think) was introducing silence.