Topic: getting back into taping after a break

[JimLash]

Hi Tapers,
I am getting back into taping after taking a break for the past 4 years. Ive been taping shows for the better part of 20 years or so before going into "semi-retirement" 4 years ago. My rig consists of Schoeps CCM4's > Sonosax SX-M2 > MicroTrack 24/96 CF Recorder. I also have a pair of Sonic Studios DSM mics and a Sony PCM-M1 Dat recorder.  Ive noticed a whole bunch of nifty new solid state recorders that have come out over the past 4 years and Im seriously considering getting a new recorder and maybe a new mic pre for the CCM4's. I used to be a fairly hardcore fob stealth taper and liked the fact that I could stuff my entire rig down my pants and get it into any show. However now Im not sure how much stealth taping I really want to be doing anymore and so Im thinking about maybe getting a slightly larger recorder. I will probably be mainly recording friends bands and shows that allow taping as it is simply easier. (Yes im getting kind of old and tired! and stealth taping is somewhat of a young mans game and even a team sport to a certain extent) So....the reason for this post is to get some comments and recommendations from some of you. I love my CCM4's and so that is the starting point for any new rig I may get. I am familiar with the Sound Devices decks but dont want to spend that much on a new recorder right now. With that in mind what are some recommendations for recorders and/or mic pres for CCM4's these days? Thanks for your thoughts.
Jim

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(Yes im getting kind of old and tired! and stealth taping is somewhat of a young mans game and even a team sport to a certain extent)

I agree, I did stealthing and took a break and came back and don't stealth anymore.

I'd personally keep the sax and just look at a recorder. The new Sony PCM-M10 is small enough that you could have the option for stealthing if you want to, but seems to hold up with a hot line input. If I wasn't going to use my 722, I'd probably get the M10.

[JimLash]

Would you recommend the Sony M10 over the Marantz 661 or Fostex FR-2LE?

[JimLash]

Well the M10 certainly looks like a serious contender especially for around $300. One small concern I would have is the 1/8" line input. Any comments on what to use cable wise for going from XLR to 1/8" input?

[JD]

Well the M10 certainly looks like a serious contender especially for around $300. One small concern I would have is the 1/8" line input. Any comments on what to use cable wise for going from XLR to 1/8" input?

If you keep your sonosax in the chain, you can use it's 1/8" out, then just use a standard 1/8 to 1/8 cable.

[su6oxone]

I use CCM4s as well and think that the Marantz 661 is a fantastic all-in-one recorder to use with them.  It is small, sturdily built, has a very low noise floor, and powers the CCM4s for over 4 hours with Sanyo 2700mAh rechargeable AA batteries.  If you buy it stock it won't cost that much either, if you buy it on ebay with cashback you can probably get it for $500-550.  I have a stock one and it sounds great.  And if you ever decide to stealth occasionally, it is a great deck for that use as well. 

Here's one show I taped open with CCM4 > stock 661:

http://www.archive.org/details/bd2009-11-16.ccm4.flac16

[JimLash]

Wow! What a great idea! Ive never used that output on the Sonosax before. Would I take any quality hit on using the 1/8" output instead of the xlr outs? If not then I think Im getting the M10!

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Would you recommend the Sony M10 over the Marantz 661 or Fostex FR-2LE?

If your keeping the sax and would like the option for stealthing, then definitely yes. I ran the Fostex before going to the 722. One problem with it (the fostex) is that your max signal (either mic or line after adjusting trim in your favor) is like +4dbu. The M10's line signal before clipping is like +24dbu so you can run a hotter signal out of your sonosax if you like the sound of it. Plus, it's easy on the wallet.

Others can/will comment on the marantz, I know a couple who use them, but I haven't personally.

[JimLash]

The 661 is also very intriguing. How are the built in mic pres compared to the Sonosax?

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Wow! What a great idea! Ive never used that output on the Sonosax before. Would I take any quality hit on using the 1/8" output instead of the xlr outs? If not then I think Im getting the M10!

I pulled the sax manual to check and it doesn't say anything related to a lower output which would be my chief reason for using XLR>3.5mm connecting cable (unless the connector is in an ergonomically bad place).

[fmaderjr]

For you, I think the Marantz 661 might be ideal, as su6oxone suggested. Then you can still stealth if you wish to and for open recording the 661 is sure to be better than the FR2-LE as well. Going bigger the 661 is not necessarily better. I hate my Fostex FR2-LE and would much rather use a preamp into the M10's line in.

Anyone want to buy a Busman FR2-LE that he finally got to work, but left a piece of plastic or a screw rattling around inside that I can't get out?

[willndmb]

For you, I think the Marantz 661 might be ideal, as su6oxone suggested. Then you can still stealth if you wish to and for open recording the 661 is sure to be better than the FR2-LE as well. Going bigger the 661 is not necessarily better. I hate my Fostex FR2-LE and would much rather use a preamp into the M10's line in.

Anyone want to buy a Busman FR2-LE that he finally got to work, but left a piece of plastic or a screw rattling around inside that I can't get out?

i like my fr2le

why can't you get it out?
open the "strap" handles and the few screws on the back
slow and gently lift and twist the back "off"
it is held on my wires so go slow

[Will_S]

Other than an apparently botched mod, what do you hate about the FR2LE?  Couldn't be happier with my stock FR2LE...well I could be if it could record 2 more tracks via line in, but for an all-in-one stereo unit that will run forever on a user-replacable internal battery, I think it's great.

[fmaderjr]

Yeah, I guess the botched mod spoiled my attitude (clicks on every recording no matter what brand of memory card used). Now I hate hearing that rattling noise.

But I really didn't care for the form factor or the internal battery system much. Also sometimes had trouble getting the gain I wanted, and if I need a pre to get the gain I'd rather go with something small like the M10. I don't see the point in a FR2-LE unless used as an all in one box (and apparently most owners think it does this very well). It's just not for me. Would much rather use a littlebox (or MixPre) + small recorder. Plus then you have the small recorder for stealth.

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Yeah, I guess the botched mod spoiled my attitude (clicks on every recording no matter what brand of memory card used). Now I hate hearing that rattling noise.

But I really didn't care for the form factor or the internal battery system much. Also sometimes had trouble getting the gain I wanted, and if I need a pre to get the gain I'd rather go with something small like the M10. I don't see the point in a FR2-LE unless used as an all in one box (and apparently most owners think it does this very well). It's just not for me. Would much rather use a littlebox (or MixPre) + small recorder. Plus then you have the small recorder for stealth.

Agreed, with the trim system and low max input signal (even for line in), I think it's best used as an all-in-1, and I prefered using mine with a battery pack external to the box. I liked mine when I had it, very few beefs with it, but like most recorders it does have its quirks.

I figured, if you have a sax, and you like the sax, keep the sax (IMHO). Then it's a matter of finding something that has nice A/D and can handle a hot signal (from the sonosax). To me, the M10 fits that description, especially if you are interested in stealthing or are on a budget.