Topic: Sony M10 - line input level??

[yates7592]

I see from the M10 manual that the rated line-in input level is 2V, which I believe is approx. +8dBu.

Does anyone know if this is 'nominal' or 'maximum' ?

I am comparing with R-09HR which has a nominal value of +2dBu and maximum of +28dBu. I knoiw the R-09HR takes a very hot signal, so maybe +8dBU on the Sony is the maximum also?

[aaronji]

guysonic says (over) +24 dBu:  http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=130924.msg1722931#msg1722931...

[yates7592]

Thanks for the info.

+24dBu is pretty good, far better than the R05 as far as I understand, and not far off the R09HR.

[aaronji]

My pleasure...

Yes, +24 dBu is pretty good.  Pretty much not going to overload for almost any combination of mics and SPLs, unless you add a lot of pre-amp gain.

[yates7592]

One more question, for the 'rated input level 2V' in the M10 manual, does anybody know at what rec level this 'rated' value relates to? I'm guessing 5 ??

[willndmb]

One more question, for the 'rated input level 2V' in the M10 manual, does anybody know at what rec level this 'rated' value relates to? I'm guessing 5 ??

if you mean the side dial, then 4 is the spot where you are at "unity"
you will see some debate over it but I tested it with different white noise levels on different devices and every time it came up as 4
going up and down a number changed it approx 2.5db each way

[nassau73]

I've only had a chance to use my new M10 twice so far in a concert environment so I'm still getting used to the recorder.

As I work to acquaint myself on the nuances, I've been reviewing the various posts on the 7 part PCM-M10 thread. Most recently, this morning I went back to part 2 which is from 3 years ago. Now that everyone has been using this recorder for awhile, is there any change to the statement from Guysonic (which was part of a very informative and eloquent testing/ analysis):
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"M10 seems best choice over 09HR especially for using MIC input modes as M10 shows little (1 spike @~ 10K Hz) or virtually no high frequency digital noise.

Suggest battery box powered mics to ONLY use MIC input jack as M10 has overload resistant MIC input ability to +2 Dbu.

And if using external preamplifiers having active gain, use only the LINE input jack OVERLOAD RESISTANT TO OVER +24Dbu.
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I've always used my battery box to line in on my MZ-RH1. And for the 2 concert recordings I've made so far on the M10, I've also used the battery box to line in recording at 24/48. I've found that I had to have the REC level fairly high going line in - 6.5 and I was up to 8 during my last effort - still not hitting the -12 LED's during the times I was able to check. Mic sensitivity was set to low and limiter was on.

I'll have a chance to play around a bit tomorrow during a daytime outdoor show (so there will be light to see what I'm doing).

I was going to try using the mic sensitivity set to high since the manual doesn't seem to say that the sensitivity setting applies only to the internal mics.

But after reading Guysonic's analysis, I might also try going mic in.

Any opinions now that several years have passed?

I'm still absorbing information from tapers section that I don't fully understand so I appreciate all the posts from "those who know" :-)

BTW - right now the mics I have are Audio reality and the battery box spec is a 150Hz high pass filter.

[F.O.Bean]

I have run 9100>line in and had the m10 cranked to 10 and recorded the show just fine

[earmonger]

I was going to try using the mic sensitivity set to high since the manual doesn't seem to say that the sensitivity setting applies only to the internal mics.

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BTW - right now the mics I have are Audio reality and the battery box spec is a 150Hz high pass filter.

I'm also a recovering minidisc user and by habit I still go mic-->battery box-->Line-In on the PCM-M10. Works fine for me.   Guysonic knows a hell of a lot more than I do about audio and electronics, but my amateur thinking is that going through Mic-In adds gain from the built-in preamp, and at a loud concert I don't need gain--or another processing stage.

Someone should correct me if I'm wrong, but as I understand it Mic Sensitivity governs only the Mic-In jack, not Line-In--High Sensitivity raises the gain on the preamp behind the Mic-In jack.

All mics have a different output, but my go-to pairs  (two versions of Church Audio, one ancient and unknown, one CA-14 omni), through a Sound Professionals 12V battery box into Line-In,  usually call for 5 or 6 to make the green light start to blink when things get loudest--my rule of thumb .  Since Mic-In has a preamp behind it, the gain on the knob would  be lower through Mic-In for the same result--and different if you have the sensitivity at high or low. You'll just have to find the sweet spot for your mics. Try recording your stereo through Mic-In and through Line-In, getting approximately the same levels by turning the gain knob. and see if there's any appreciable difference in the sound quality.

I also note that you are using a high pass filter. That was helpful at times with the MD because big bass could really freak out the MD. But you definitely should experiment with turning the high-pass filter off or using the 30Hz filter on the battery box.  The bottom key on a piano is 27.5 Hz, and rock bass goes lower, so you're really missing something with the bass roll-off at 150 Hz.  Especially if you are going battery box to Line-In, the PCM-M10 can handle those big woofers, and you will get much fuller-sounding recordings.

[yates7592]

One more question, for the 'rated input level 2V' in the M10 manual, does anybody know at what rec level this 'rated' value relates to? I'm guessing 5 ??

if you mean the side dial, then 4 is the spot where you are at "unity"
you will see some debate over it but I tested it with different white noise levels on different devices and every time it came up as 4
going up and down a number changed it approx 2.5db each way

I'm not sure I do mean unity gain. The manual talks about 'rated input levels' for both line-in and mic-in. For line-in this figure is 2V which I think is in excess of 6dBu. I'm not sure that input level would be at no.4 because the max input measured by Guysonic is (>)24dBu. I guess that would be at about dial level no.1 (the lowest useful setting according to him). If the levels jump 2.5dB per 1 unit on the dial, that would make the +6dBu level way higher than no.4? I must be missing something here. Just trying to roughly calibrate what max input dBu levels are for the useful dial range on the m10 from say 1 to 9 (1 being +24dBu, others unknown as far as I am aware).

[morst]

I see from the M10 manual that the rated line-in input level is 2V, which I believe is approx. +8dBu.

Does anyone know if this is 'nominal' or 'maximum' ?

I assume +2v is the maximum level the inputs can take without 'brickwalling.' That's a lot hotter than the zoom H2, which can only handle .775V maximum!