Topic: iPod HD recorder (from DAT-Heads)

[Nick Graham]

There's been a flood of posts lately asking about using the iPod as a recorder, figured this might come in handy.

http://www.macworld.com/2005/05/secrets/julygeekfactor/index.php

Brian, you wanna put this in the archive?

[Brendan]

no levels....nothing worked for me when i plugged my mics in...

[greenone]

Article also says mono only...

[Sanjay]

unless you modify a dock connector

[John Kelly]

Recording on the iPod?  Not.  Gonna.  Happen.

Not on the current iPods anyway, maybe newer models will add stuff, but I still doubt it.

[OFOTD]

Recording on the iPod?  Not.  Gonna.  Happen.

Not on the current iPods anyway, maybe newer models will add stuff, but I still doubt it.

I think this is alot closer actually than you may think.  Several people have been able to get a Linux firmware onto 3G IPods already.  It would seem to me that El Sirchek is on the right path.  It lies in the dock connector.  With the exception of the dock connector everything is there hardware wise.   The software seems right around the corner. Imagine a SPDIF in dock connector. 
 
We'll have to wait and see! 

[John Kelly]

I think this is alot closer actually than you may think.  Several people have been able to get a Linux firmware onto 3G IPods already.  It would seem to me that El Sirchek is on the right path.  It lies in the dock connector.  With the exception of the dock connector everything is there hardware wise.   The software seems right around the corner. Imagine a SPDIF in dock connector. 
 
We'll have to wait and see!

I seriously doubt it.  The market for such a device is so small that I doubt any company would ever want to create it.

But I could be wrong...

[OFOTD]

I think this is alot closer actually than you may think.  Several people have been able to get a Linux firmware onto 3G IPods already.  It would seem to me that El Sirchek is on the right path.  It lies in the dock connector.  With the exception of the dock connector everything is there hardware wise.   The software seems right around the corner. Imagine a SPDIF in dock connector. 
 
We'll have to wait and see!

I seriously doubt it.  The market for such a device is so small that I doubt any company would ever want to create it.

But I could be wrong...

I used to think that very same thing as well.   I also used to think that about my Xbox until I realized there was a whole other world out there. More of an issue of 'whynot' instead of 'why'.   I have seen discussions and screenshots of people using their 3 and 4G's as web servers and such.  If someone is going to turn their's into a friggen web server then a recorder doesn't seem to be far off or implausable.   

As far as a company making a new dock connector, i'm sure all it will take is some college kid majoring in elec. engineering to come up with something.  Hell maybe even leegeddy can conjour up something. 

[BLOODYJACK]

The firmware can be changed to make this a recorder all the hardware is there and the dock connector does have analoge in so getting analoge in would be easy. There is no digital in on the dock connector so forget spdif in.

[John Kelly]

I used to think that very same thing as well.   I also used to think that about my Xbox until I realized there was a whole other world out there. More of an issue of 'whynot' instead of 'why'.   I have seen discussions and screenshots of people using their 3 and 4G's as web servers and such.  If someone is going to turn their's into a friggen web server then a recorder doesn't seem to be far off or implausable.   

As far as a company making a new dock connector, i'm sure all it will take is some college kid majoring in elec. engineering to come up with something.  Hell maybe even leegeddy can conjour up something.

The XBox analogy is way off.  What did it take to turn the XBox into a webserver?  Simply a modchip, which is made to play pirated games anyway.  There is a much larger market for modchips than webservers, which is why they can afford to be made.

Dock connector inputs, however, are very specific to our hobby.  There are already recorders available for the people who want to use the iPod for lectures and such, so there would be little to no market there.  The taper market is so small that it makes very little sense to create a device specifically for us.  If you look at the rest of the devices we use, they're all professional devices that can be used outside of our hobby.  Even the 722/744 are marketed more towards film professionals than us.

I think you also vastly overestimate the necessary hardware required to create such an input.  If it were easy it would probably be done already.



But again, I could be way off base.  All I know is I've been hearing questions about iPod recording since 3 or 4 years ago and not once has anything come out of it.

[BLOODYJACK]

Dock connector inputs, however, are very specific to our hobby.  There are already recorders available for the people who want to use the iPod for lectures and such, so there would be little to no market there.  The taper market is so small that it makes very little sense to create a device specifically for us.  If you look at the rest of the devices we use, they're all professional devices that can be used outside of our hobby.  Even the 722/744 are marketed more towards film professionals than us.

I think you also vastly overestimate the necessary hardware required to create such an input.  If it were easy it would probably be done already.



But again, I could be way off base.  All I know is I've been hearing questions about iPod recording since 3 or 4 years ago and not once has anything come out of it.

The I-pod HAS ANALOGE LINE INPUTS on its dock connector it would only take a firmware update to make it a recorder you could hack a connector and a 3.5 stereo jack together very easily in fact that is being done already if you actualy read the link attached to this thread but I would not be suprised if an interface is not being worked on as we speak.

Most tapers use the JB3 to record and as good as it is I would hardly say it was a "professional device"

[John Kelly]

The I-pod HAS ANALOGE LINE INPUTS on its dock connector it would only take a firmware update to make it a recorder you could hack a connector and a 3.5 stereo jack together very easily in fact that is being done already if you actualy read the link attached to this thread but I would not be suprised if an interface is not being worked on as we speak.

Most tapers use the JB3 to record and as good as it is I would hardly say it was a "professional device"

I meant to mention the JB3 as an exception, as it is the only one I can think of.  But that was really just an accident anyway.

And as for analog inputs, who cares?  There are already a billion devices out there that will record an analog signal...  The deal breaker most of us are looking for is a device with a bit perfect digital input that records to digital media.  Looks like those are shipping now or soon anyway...

[BLOODYJACK]

Analoge input would be fine , because it already has the hardware to obtain 24bit 96k (bit perfect as you call it) it just needs to be turned on by apple.
The only hard disk recorder I see is the Sound Devices and its not cheap or stealthy.
There are some flash recorders on the horizon but flash will need to come down in price a 2gig will only get you 1.5 hours of 96k

[Ray76]

Analoge input would be fine , because it already has the hardware to obtain 24bit 96k (bit perfect as you call it) it just needs to be turned on by apple.
The only hard disk recorder I see is the Sound Devices and its not cheap or stealthy.
There are some flash recorders on the horizon but flash will need to come down in price a 2gig will only get you 1.5 hours of 96k

I am wary of anything that wasnt intended for audio recording(cept for the jb3). Anything that wasnt INTENDED for audio recording probably wouldnt hold my interest or have the features to set me up for sucess.like the A>D of the jb3 for example. Noone anticipated using it for recording, so the greatest detail wasnt put into making it noisless , etc. . Just cuz something will fit there doesnt mean it should. Ipod=music playback
maudio, sd 722, marantz, edirol, etc=recording. Know your role, I say. Damn these all in one boxes. When they do everything, they normally do it mediocre. I have an ipod, but I play music on it, what it was for.
bought a 722 and maudio(7 on the list!) for recording.

Ray

[BLOODYJACK]

I agree the Sound devices new hard disk recorder is the best way to go in fact the 4 channel version is even better you can have stereo from the sound board on one pair of channels and your mics on the other pair.
But if Apple ever open up the recording capabilities of the I-pod it would certainly surpass the capabilities of the JB3 and be stealthy.
Just checked after writing this the I-pod is only 16 bit bleh it can record 96k sample rate though

[John Kelly]

Analoge input would be fine , because it already has the hardware to obtain 24bit 96k (bit perfect as you call it) it just needs to be turned on by apple.

Bit perfect only refers to digital inputs simply recorded the passed signal and not resampling.  An analog input is by nature not bit perfect, because there are no bits for it to process.

The only hard disk recorder I see is the Sound Devices and its not cheap or stealthy.

Plus Edirol, Marantz, and the upcoming M-Audio.

But if Apple ever open up the recording capabilities of the I-pod it would certainly surpass the capabilities of the JB3 and be stealthy.

There is no way you could ever know that.  What if the recording capabilities Apple decided to open up was a simple record function with no way to control the quality?  What if there were no meters?  What if it was limited to mp3?  Or limited to a certain size?

[tonyvt]

There have been some rumors circulating of enhanced recording features being built into the upcoming iTunes 4.9 to support podcasting.
Scroll to the bottom of this link. http://www.macosrumors.com/
My fingers are crossed that something cool will be announced at MacWorld in July.

[BLOODYJACK]

The signal from your mic is analoge and somewere in the recording chain an A2D has to convert it to digital so you allways need an analoge input somewere?
The I-pod has convertors built in hence the analoge inputs and there is no digital input on the I-pod.
I was clarifying this because I belive this thread is about useing the I-pod as a hard disk recorder.

Edirol has a 4 track hard disk recorder neither cheap or stealthy the others you refer to are not hard disk recorders there flash recorders see my previous post.
Fostex has a flash recorder that takes PCMCIA mini hard drives so technicaly that can be a hard disk recorder if you hand over the cash for the drives after spending $1200 on the unit.

There is no way for you to know that Apple wont update the firmware to 96k recording with meters my original point is the hardware is in place to do this if they choose.
In fact with podcasting on the horizon it is going to happen. I do know for a fact that a number of companys are working on recording interfaces.

[John Kelly]

In fact with podcasting on the horizon it is going to happen. I do know for a fact that a number of companys are working on recording interfaces.

Please provide links, I'd like to see this.

[BLOODYJACK]

There are no links yet
most companys have NDA Agreements
Take the M-audio fast-tracker for example rumor has it released next month but the only thing you will find on the web about it is one photo taken at the recent Frankfurt show.

[John Kelly]

So they have NDA agreements and yet you know about it?  M-Audio doesn't have any NDA agreements with resellers about the flash tracker, and resellers are releasing information as soon as they get it.

[BLOODYJACK]

Well that’s because the flash-tracker is imminent, after a product has been shown at a show its then public.
My point was until the show nobody new it existed and typically I would guess from experience that product was on the drawing board a year ago if not more.
Yes I have signed some NDA,s so I cannot say anymore

[greenone]

The signal from your mic is analoge and somewere in the recording chain an A2D has to convert it to digital so you allways need an analoge input somewere?
The I-pod has convertors built in hence the analoge inputs

Which likely sound like complete and total shit. There's a big difference between "it can be done" and "it can be done right". I see your point about clarifying this, but as it exists now, with the hacks that exist now, I still don't see anything better than mono recording through an analog input...which is nowhere near what any music taper would want. For speech, great. For music, useless...

[BLOODYJACK]

Let me try and clarify there are already stereo line inputs available on the docking port and with the linex firmware right now you can record stereo at a 96k sample rate.
I have not tried it but the codecs used are no worse than any other cheese ball hard drive players out there and the sample rate is twice that of the JB3
Sticking a 24 bit A2D on to a 16 bit devices just means you truncate the 8 bits that the better A2D gives you this stuff is not rocket science

[Brian Skalinder]

I have not tried it but the codecs used are no worse than any other cheese ball hard drive players out there and the sample rate is twice that of the JB3

The sound of the analog input and ADC depends on far more than just the codecs used.  So even if the codecs used are the same as other HD players that happen to include recording capability, they may sound either better or worse in this particular implementation.  I'm betting worse since the other HD recorders actually had the feature designed in from the beginning, whereas this is purely an afterthought.  I suppose we'll find out when someone actually gives it a try.  In the meantime, none that I've actually heard sound especially good analog-in, IMO (Neuros, another I don't recall, and the surprisingly best of the bunch JB3).  And besides, the real beauty of the JB3 is it reliably records digital-in, a feature the iPod does not - and will not - offer.  I'd rather run quality outboard 16-bit / 44kHz ADC > digital-in recorder than crappy to mediocre analog-in at 24/96.

At any rate, I'll believe it's a viable option for our purposes when I see one working reliably - and sounding good  - in the field.  Somehow, I suspect it'll be quite some time from now, if ever.

[BLOODYJACK]

You know all I was trying to do was explain what was available on the I-pod because that’s what the topic was about and there seemed to be some confusion.
If you posters actually read the link attached to this thread and understood it you would know all this anyway so I am going to shut the fuck up.
 

[rvpigeon]

i've had linux on my ipod for a while, i dont ever use it though. it's pretty much fucked up all across the board, they can't even get mp3 playback to work smoothly, and the battery status display doesnt work. playback of recordings over 32khz freeze every time, and the recordings don't sound very good anyway, there are lots of weird clicks and buzzes that come in regularly (even with a good mic). its a cool trick though

[tscales]

Anybody else try recording with some decent mics to evaluate it, imperically, rather than speculate?

-T

[John Kelly]

Doubtful, but just a warning to ya if you plan to stick around these parts:  don't end your posts with "-T" as it has quite a different meaning on here.

+T to get ya started.

[Ray76]

Anybody else try recording with some decent mics to evaluate it, imperically, rather than speculate?

-T

nope purely speculation.

ray +t