Author Topic: Thinking about getting a turntable (Read 4656 times)

scervin · « **on:** September 27, 2006, 06:30:45 PM »

So I've thought a bunch about this over the past year and seeing more and more albums is making me think hard about buying a turntable. I had saved a bunch hoping to get a new pre/pro and amps, but when the wife told me I was going to be a dad those plans got put on hold.

I don't want to spend a ton maybe around $1K after it is all said and done. Was first looking at getting the Music Hall MMF-7 or Rega P5, but I don't want to get a really nice turntable and skimp on the phono pre. I'm looking at the Pro-Ject XpressionII and SE preamp. I think if I really get into it and find myself with as much vinyl as CD's, I would maybe then look into the Clear Audio, Thorens, VPI.

Are these like watches in that you either spend less than $200 or more than $1K??

carlbeck · « **Reply #1 on:** September 28, 2006, 07:00:55 AM »

I say go for it!! I love my turntable, completely blows away my $4,000 digital front end without question. I only spent less then $1,000 for my analog front end to boot. I am running a VPI HW-19 with a modified Grado cart that I got for about $750, my pre-amp is a Cambridge Audio 640P for about $175.00. I spent a bunch of money in cleaning materials but average about $1.00 record when I buy a collection used from someone off Craigslist.com. Cheap money for such incredible sound.

I also bought a nice original Thorens when I bought my VPI & it sound amazing as well, I only paid $250.00 for it, you can't beat the sound of vinyl for the money. Eventually I am sure I will have a ton of money into my analog rig, it is so enjoyable. It is what music SHOULD sound like, I am hooked.

Nick's Picks · « **Reply #2 on:** September 28, 2006, 07:20:20 AM »

I also keep thinking about it...but then I see my kids playing indoor frisbee with a fat copy of Europe '72

scervin · « **Reply #3 on:** September 28, 2006, 07:57:03 AM »

It just seems like the dynamics are totally gone when listening to a CD. Starting to bug me a little. I'll do some more looking and might head out to take a listen this weekend.

So what makes the turntable? Is it in the arm, cartridge, stylus, drive system, weight

carlbeck · « **Reply #4 on:** September 28, 2006, 08:02:29 AM »

IMO, it is the whole enchilada. If I had to choose I would say the stylus first, then the arm, then everything else. There are a ton of options in the used market as you know but you really can't go wrong with a VPI in the higher end of the used price or a MMf or Rega in the lower end of the price spectrum. Stick with a major brand with a reputable arm. The cart is a personal preference & can be changed accordingly if you have the pre-amp for it.

TT's are a lot of fun, I appreciate the craftsmanship that goes into a nice turntable, total eye candy to me.

George · « **Reply #5 on:** September 28, 2006, 08:29:02 AM »

I have a rega P3 with a grado gold cart...I finally sent in the cart to have the stylii replaced because it was bent. When I did listen to a record it sounded great, much more organic and lively than its counterpart on cd which sounded articifical and boring.

I would vote for a start rig, check out this site: http://www.ttvj.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=8&zenid=1189ae564fac71b8e1e3dcb15501a141

Maybe a goldring is in your future or a Music Hall 2.1+a fancy cartridge.

it-goes-to-eleven · « **Reply #6 on:** September 28, 2006, 10:13:50 AM »

I've just started screwing around with my LP12 again. It needs a tune up and maybe new stylus and cart.. I really need a good phono pre. A couple nights ago I was doing a test transfer into the 722.. I'm out of practice with the tt.. Completely forgot about it. The next morning I awoke to 6.25 hours of 24/96 (hard drive filled up).. 6 hours of which was just the center groove from tea for the tillerman. I'm thinking of seeding the groove part on dime

I haven't compared the original phono vs. digital yet.. The tt is connected to speakers that are poorly located. My VR4's are setup single source from a directly connected squeezebox3 > dna-125.

I think digital xfers from tt's give an interesting opportunity to compare tt component sound in a more controlled way. So you could 'rip' an album with two different cartridges and then do the back to back blind comps that digital makes so easy. Similarly, going into a store and ripping a record on several tt's would allow you to go home and continue the eval.. Just bring your own phono pre.

It would be interesting to compare a great stylus on a regular consumer table and arm vs. a good table with a lessor stylus. I'm not sure I would put the priority on stylus over table and arm.. I have a pioneer that is a pretty decent consumer auto tt. It has a graphite/carbon kinda looking arm (probably just resin w/filler). I guess I should do a quick xfer. I know it could use a better cart..

Curious what you are using for cleaning, Carl.

scervin · « **Reply #7 on:** September 28, 2006, 10:33:51 AM »

I'm thinking of starting off with either the Goldring 1.2 or Pro Ject Xpression. The cartridge in the Pro ject seems kinda crappy though.

SC

carlbeck · « **Reply #8 on:** September 28, 2006, 10:53:37 AM »

I built a very nice record cleaning machine out of a rolling cart, 1hp shop vac, old turntable platter & VPI cleaning wand. It looks like a pro unit & is the right height for cleaning. I will snap some pics later.

Scott, do you really want to buy new? Used is a better deal & there is plenty of info on how to set up a turntable using cheap basic tools. Some of the cheaper better tools are located here:
http://www.turntablebasics.com/align.html

scervin · « **Reply #9 on:** September 28, 2006, 11:16:31 AM »

I've been looking used, but I'm not going to spend $1K+ on audiogon. Not much else there.

BTW, that is a great page linked above!

sc

jpschust · « **Reply #10 on:** September 28, 2006, 05:24:39 PM »

get a scout with the jw-9. man it rules.

scervin · « **Reply #11 on:** September 28, 2006, 06:14:33 PM »

Quote from: jpschust on September 28, 2006, 05:24:39 PM

get a scout with the jw-9. man it rules.

Wish I could, but again I'll have a newborn in 10 weeks so I can't be spending that kind of cash.

carlbeck · « **Reply #12 on:** September 28, 2006, 06:20:25 PM »

The reality of it is that even a cheapie table will sound better then a digital rig. Too bad I don't still tape analpg like back in the old days!

Tim · « **Reply #13 on:** September 28, 2006, 06:34:13 PM »

Quote from: carlbeck on September 28, 2006, 06:20:25 PM

The reality of it is that even a cheapie table will sound better then a digital rig.

really? you get that much "bang for the buck"? I've never heard a good table, or a cheapie for that matter, on a hi-fi system.

carlbeck · « **Reply #14 on:** September 28, 2006, 07:12:08 PM »

Quote from: Tim on September 28, 2006, 06:34:13 PM

Quote from: carlbeck on September 28, 2006, 06:20:25 PM
The reality of it is that even a cheapie table will sound better then a digital rig.

really? you get that much "bang for the buck"? I've never heard a good table, or a cheapie for that matter, on a hi-fi system.

Seriously, I honestly feel you do. I can't really explain it until you hear it but it so organic. It just sounds "RIGHT", what it did for me was make me realize how horrible my digital front end sounds. I had to up the ante pretty seriously with my new DAC to even LISTEN to digital, the Benchmark had to go ASAP. That isn't a slam against the Benchmark either, it is a fine DAC but compared to a table, forget it. My new DAC makes digital a little more bearable for me & it is a top notch DAC! What that tells me is that you have to spend a lot more money in the digital relm to come close to even a meager analog set up. My digital front end costs almost 4X more than my analog front end, what does that tell you

carlbeck · « **Reply #15 on:** September 28, 2006, 07:14:28 PM »

BTW- Nick will be here any minute. We are listening to the sources we did from this last WSP run, maybe he will share his thoughts as well on the old analog vs. digital argument.

All I can say is do NOT listen to a turntable unless you plan on getting one, if you can live with the material available it will cause all your CD's to gather dust

Tim · « **Reply #16 on:** September 28, 2006, 07:21:59 PM »

thanks Carl - I know what you mean, "know it when you hear it"

what dac do you have now?

George · « **Reply #17 on:** September 28, 2006, 08:44:26 PM »

I definitely think you get more bang for the buck with an entry level tt. I had a pos fisher tt with a stanton 500 cart and it sounded a hell of a lot more fun to listen to for long sessions compared to my paltry digital rig in comparison (via headphones).

carlbeck · « **Reply #18 on:** September 28, 2006, 10:47:24 PM »

Hey Tim-

I have a Onkyo DV-SP1000 multi player as a transport & a Electrocompaniet EDC-1 for a DAC, read all about it here:
http://www.electrocompaniet.no/products/digital/ecd1.html

It's the best DAC I have ever heard, very nice, smooth, as analog like as you can get with an upsampling convertor. I think upsample convertors are a little more "digital" sounding vs. non upsample but this convertor has multiple inputs of every kind which is impotant to me & also has smooth refined sound.

Tim · « **Reply #19 on:** September 29, 2006, 03:02:31 AM »

thanks carl - much appreciated

I guess I need to hear a good analog rig sometime soon

chris · « **Reply #20 on:** October 11, 2006, 05:27:16 PM »

Tim,

Someday soon you need to visit my place, near City Park area. Although I've the TT upgrade bug once again, my mod-Thorens TD150 through my YPH phono stage sounds pretty darn good. But beware, the TT route is for complete audio JUNKIES.....I need to find some rehab for this addiction sooner than later.

Also, FWIW, the BIX, Bluenote Piccolo and Clearaudio Emotion all look VERY interesting tables, esp at their price points.

GO CARDS!

C Evans

Tim · « **Reply #21 on:** October 11, 2006, 05:32:33 PM »

Quote from: chris on October 11, 2006, 05:27:16 PM

Tim,

Someday soon you need to visit my place, near City Park area. Although I've the TT upgrade bug once again, my mod-Thorens TD150 through my YPH phono stage sounds pretty darn good. But beware, the TT route is for complete audio JUNKIES.....I need to find some rehab for this addiction sooner than later.

Also, FWIW, the BIX, Bluenote Piccolo and Clearaudio Emotion all look VERY interesting tables, esp at their price points.

GO CARDS!

C Evans

Yes please! I'd love that Chris

we're not too far from each other - I'm downtown

GO CARDINALS!