Topic: Coresound

[travelinbeat]

I currently own a set of CSB's which I've loved for years, and gotten tons of great recordings with.  I'm considering upgrading to the HEB's however, I'm begining to notice the flat sound which the CSB's give me, and I'm wondering if anyone knows whether this issue would be resolved with the HEB's.  Please feel free to recommend other stealth-able binaurals, thanks for everything!

[china_rider]

They are not binaurals but HRTF.... Depending on price range you are looking at I would recommend the Sonic Studios line.  I've had several sets for years and been very happy with them.  Check with guysonic to see what would work best for your recording environment.

[Javier Cinakowski]

China Rider, what are you talking about? Binaural and HRTF are both NOT good terms to describe a type of microphone....

 HRTF describes the diffraction and reflection properties of the head, Binuarl recording is a recording technique utilizing the HRTF...  The type of small omni microphones that Core-Sound sells could most certainly be described as binuarl microphones.  A small stereo pair of omnis designed to record near each ear.  "High End Binuarls" = HEB and CSB = Core-Sound Binuarls..

Sounds like you are fluffing your ego by being authoritative about a topic you don't understand...

FWIW the HEB's smoke the Sonic Studio mics...

[Brian Skalinder]

The type of small omni microphones that Core-Sound sells could most certainly be described as binuarl microphones.

I think CSB and HEBs are more accurately described as omnis (that one may use in a binaural configuration).

[lonewolfrecords]

Hi,

I am not totally certain what you mean by a "flat" sound, but having heard many CSB recordings, I think I know what you mean. The HEB microphones are definately a major step-up from the CSB mics, and are much more stealth-able.

As Brian mentioned, both are omni's.

The Core Sound HEB's are either DPA 4060's or 4061 microphones wired into a battery box that core sound makes. I "had" a pair of the 4060 HEB's, but ended up sending the 4060's to DPA to have the microdots put back on so that I could use them with the MMA6000 preamp, which was the best choice I ever made. There is simply no comparison between the core sound battery box recordings and the recordings I made with the MMA6000. The MMA6000 seemed to lift a veil that was present when using the core sound battery box. Now, maybe that is more due to the preamp boosting the level into the recorder, but I also think DPA knows their microphones and how to power them much better than Core Sound does.

I would recommend that you not buy the Core Sound HEB's, and instead buy the actual DPA microphones (either the 4060's or the 4061's). You can then either buy the DPA "battery box" or the DPA MMA6000 preamp depending on your budget. If I had to do it all over again that is the way I would go. Cascade Media is a DPA dealer, and I would recommend them as a starting point for you. I think you will be much happier with that set up in the long run, and have many more options for upgrading if your budget right now only allows for the microphones and battery box.

Core Sound is charging a premium for their battery box and the "matched" microphones. I believe that you can get DPA to match the microphones for you. There are other threads on the list about how close stock 406x microphones are (when bought new - not the used eBay ones). The only other thing that the HEB's do give you are the microphone clips - which are worth about $50USD for the pair ($25USD each).

Hope this helps.

T.

[china_rider]

Damn... Is it PMS time at TS already again?   

I can't really comment on the HEBs since I have never owned a pair (but have heard some very nice recordings.)  I consider the SS mics a big upgrade to the CSBs.  The original poster asked for suggestions other than the HEBs and thats what I gave.

Strictly speaking binaural recording is done, like you said, with the mics close or in the ears and pointed straight out.  The technique can provide very good results when listening over headphones but sometimes miserable ones when listening over loudspeakers which is why I am not a big fan of binaural recording.

You are correct that this may not be the best way to describe a microphone but core does use it in the name.  What I ment to imply is that the DSMs are not traditional binaurals but still take advantage of HRTF and don't suffer from the headphone limitations that other true binaural recordings do.  Not that CSB/HEBs are not binaural mics.  Maybe guysonic can give some more info.  I personally love my DSMs and think they would be a significant upgrade over the CSBs for probably $300+ less than the HEBs.

[travelinbeat]

thanks for all the feedback, guys!

In the case of the DPA's, how would I go about using the mics for a binaural recording?  It appears that the microphones are sold by themselves, I don't know anything about splicing / sodering, etc, would I need to do something like that in order to use the mics for binaural recordings?

-Brian

[lonewolfrecords]

thanks for all the feedback, guys!

In the case of the DPA's, how would I go about using the mics for a binaural recording?  It appears that the microphones are sold by themselves, I don't know anything about splicing / sodering, etc, would I need to do something like that in order to use the mics for binaural recordings?

-Brian

Hi Brian,

You can use the DPA 406x exactly the same as you have used the CSB's. They are smaller than the CSB's, but the same principle. You would need to either order the DPA DMM0004 miniature clips (need 2 - $19 ea list price) or find another option for securing them to glasses, a hat or whatever you have done in the past with your CSB's. There are several ideas on old threads if you do a search.

There is no need to do any soldering or splicing if you bought the DPA mics from a dealer. They will come with microdot connectors on the end of each microphone, and then you would buy a 2 channel miniature power supply (such as the DPA MPS6030 - which is 2 channel with a mini-jack output - List price $177, a dealer should be less) or the DPA MMA6000 preamp (list price $521 - the dealer should be less). The 2 channel power supply or the MMA6000 will have 2 female microdots for connecting your microphones. It is very simple.

Using list prices from DPA you are looking at:
(2) 406x mics $850 ($425 ea. list)
(1) MPS6030 $177 list
(2) DMM0001 $38 ($19 ea list)
Total: $1,065 list (street prices will be much less). The Core Sound HEB's are $990 w/the fixed response battery box and $1,020 for the switchable filter battery box. I am pretty certain that a street price for all of the DPA items listed will be closer to $850-$900, maybe less. Don't know what matching would add to the cost, but I would definately recommend that you contact Cascade Media or another dealer and see what they quote you, and then compare to what Core Sound is charging.

Hope this helps.

T.

[Kyle]

If you go with the DPA's but end up low on funds, I believe Chris Church can make a fine (and reasonably priced) battery box that should suit you well.

But, ultimately, the DPA MMA6000 is the way to go.

[Javier Cinakowski]

China-Rider, I just don't like you... I think you suck at life... 

















JK     


(sorry, have a nice day!)

[travelinbeat]

lonewolf-- thanks for the heads up on that, I appreciate all the work you've undertaken to give me a good idea of what I'm looking at!

I generally tape loud indoor rock shows (Coheed and Cambria, Atreyu, etc) but I also enjoy the flexibility of being able to tape quieter shows such as small venue acoustic performances.  I use a RockBoxed H120 now, and my question is what is a microdot.  Would I essentially plug two mics into two mic jacks?  Also I've never used a pre-amp-- the MMA6000 is a preamp, correct? How are preamps used?  Are they stealthable?  By looking at it, it seems that it has some knobs and stuff on it:



Does the device feature any sort of a "hold" or "lock" which would prevent those knobs from twisting around once they're set?  (I'm assuming also that the inputs for the device are located on the opposite side as photographed).  Please let me know what good preamps are exactly, and how to use one! (as well as what micro-dots are!)

Thanks for being patient with me

[WiFiJeff]

Does the device feature any sort of a "hold" or "lock" which would prevent those knobs from twisting around once they're set?  (I'm assuming also that the inputs for the device are located on the opposite side as photographed).  Please let me know what good preamps are exactly, and how to use one! (as well as what micro-dots are!)

Thanks for being patient with me

The MMA6000 preamp knob clicks into a setting which will not easily move once you've set it.  Each click is a 2.5 dB boost, from 0 dB (where it is only acting as a battery box) to +37.5 dB.  I like this because it makes it easy to reproduce your setting or adjust it as needed.  I've never had it move accidently, and I carry the MMA6000 inside a coat pocket, knob-end up.  The inputs are also on the top, the shiny dots on the lower right and left side of the face in your picture.  The output 1/8" stereo plug is on the other end, I use a right angle 1/8" plug with a rubber band to keep it from pulling out (never has).

Jeff

[lonewolfrecords]

Hi,

Jeff's pretty much covered your questions.

I would just add that the MMA6000 preamp is not all that much bigger than the Core Sound battery box. It is about twice as wide as the CS battery box, but about the same length and depth. So it is no problem stealthing it.

Microdots are just a type of connector - they look like a coax cable connector, except miniature.

Take care,

T.

[travelinbeat]

thanks for that-- the only remaining question I can think of is why would people bother using a preamp instead of just turning up the levels on their actual unit?

[WiFiJeff]

thanks for that-- the only remaining question I can think of is why would people bother using a preamp instead of just turning up the levels on their actual unit?

You can go line-in to your recorder if you have reasonably sensitive mics and are recording off loud PA systems (an in any case if you are you're probably deaf anyway and won't notice much  ).

If you are recording classical music, or anything else okayed by OSHA, you will need to go mic-in, which means you are using the internal preamps on your recorder, which are usually suckier than the exrternal preamps.  Unless you have a 722 or a MiniR82.  Of course that's just my opinion.  My friend who records pro with a 722 uses a Grace preamp and a disgustingly big bucks A/D, both of which need 120V nearby.  YMMV.

Jeff

[madman]

I'm late in the thread here, but travelinbeat, I use the 4061s in small venues to tape very loud shows and have no need for a pre-amp.  I did buy the DPA pre, which I've only used a couple of times because I simply don't need it.  I'm considering swapping my 4061s for 4060s to basically eliminate any need for a pre.

[Ekib]

To the topic starter :

Why do you at any cost want Omni's ( or binaural's before someone starts this discussion again ) ? >>>I will refer to Omni's from now on , ok ?<<<

I have been using Core Sound Stealthy Cardioid's for over 8 years and I think they are the perfect set for any situation ! Indoor/outdoor/small club/big Arena etc.
Non tapers have heard my recordings ( and many bands !!! ) and think they sound almost perfect . I was testing a set of speakers ( Audio Physic ) and the guys in the store couldn't believe they were audience recordings .
A friend of mine uses the CSCD's while recording video ( with the -20 DB attenuator ) . Loud heavy metal type concerts...and the sound is perfect ! AGENT STEEL used his footage for an official DVD .

I have heard recordings with much more expensive mic's and they weren't that much better .

I know a lot of mic's is nothing but taste . So I am not going to argue which mic is best .
I just notice a lot of tapers want Omni's at any cost and have a feeling they are not looking at the other way . That's all .

Another I like about card's is they exclude a lot of (local) crowd noise . Nothing ruins a recording more than your neighbour yelling loud . I have had people standing next to me and talking the whole gig . With Omni's the recording would have been ruined but with my CSCD's you hardly notice it . At least not that much as with Omni's . That is a very practical thing since many gigs you have to stand in the middle of the crowd .