Topic: flac issues

[JackoRoses]

I think I am in the right place to pose this issue I am facing.
I believe the underlying issue is computer hardware but lets get to the issue first.

I was flacing up a show that I just finished tracking out here in the last day plus.
I wanted to listen to the flacs when I was done so I qued up the show in winamp and played it back.
Well a few of those flacs had a drop out in them. Just one dropout in each faulty track yet the .wav was flawless.
So I ran an integrity test on the flac and it was bad (no surprise).
So I reflac'd the entire show and some other track gave the problem completely different than the ones I was having issues with. So I flac that track only run an integrity test on all tracks and they pass.
Ok all good we made it past that bump right?
Wrong.. I run an integrity test again on the entire show once again and now several other tracks are now bad? I also generated a md5 file and right after generating that I verified the md5 file and it also reported 4 tracks being bad. Even though I never even touched those files, between generation and verification.

So I'm like no way in hell this is right, run the integrity test again and everything pass's this time..
I was thinking maybe the flac software is corrupted and I need to reinstall but the md5 issue has me thinking it's not the flac software.
So at this point I'm a bit confused..
This is a fairly new computer I built in the last oh 4 months I guess it's been running.
I have ran prime 95 on this machine and even ran an integrity test with Prime running and it passed the test with Prime running.
I was thinking if my ram is going bad I should of seen an error in Prime while running the integrity test again..
I ran a scan on my hard drive which is as new as the computer and it did not show any errors on the surface scan. (S.M.A.R.T. is enabled on the drives and they all show good stats)
So I'm a little baffled, ram would seem like a culprit here but that doesn't seem to be the case; with the ram tests not showing anything bad.
One other thing I am thinking about is could the cpu itself be bad? I'm not really sure how I can test the  processor itself other than run another torture test with prime and instead of hitting the ram heavy make it stress the processor more.
Machine hardware is as follows.
Gigabyte 965s3 (forget the exact model) board
e6400 c2d
7900 gs vid card (I doubt this matters at all in this case)
2 gbs of corsair  ddr2 800 mhz ram (i forget the exact model)
adaptec 2960 card running 3 drives off it.

[kskreider]

You running Vista?

[JackoRoses]

You running Vista?

No winxp sp2 with all the latest greatest patches from M$ (to the best of my knowledge)

[kskreider]

Did you try another player like Foobar?  I bailed on Winamp b/c of quality/playback issues.  I am having a hard time believing that it is hardware.  BUT, have you tested your RAM?  MEMTEST?  What about trying to re-seat the RAM mods.  Take them out and snap them back in.

[JackoRoses]

Did you try another player like Foobar?  I bailed on Winamp b/c of quality/playback issues.  I am having a hard time believing that it is hardware.  BUT, have you tested your RAM?  MEMTEST?  What about trying to re-seat the RAM mods.  Take them out and snap them back in.

I have not ran mem test since I bought the ram. Memtest is good though and will find any issues.
Prime is a pretty hardcore tester as well.
I haven't reseated the ram yet because I flac'd a show on saturday and it has checked out fine.
I even tested that show while having all these issues and it passed than I ran the test on the files causing grief and they passed that time while in a previous test the very same files were giving errors.. Go figure..
It sure can't hurt to reseat as you suggested and I'm trying to get ideas, suggestions I may not have thought of before tearing hardware out and reseating it.
I also should state that all temp readings are good as well so overheating is/was not a issue.

thanks for your suggestions too +T but do you want to lose your trip 7's?

[F.O.Bean]

not to talk down on your knowledge, but did you restart and try again

weird for sure bro. hope all is well

[JackoRoses]

not to talk down on your knowledge, but did you restart and try again

weird for sure bro. hope all is well

yes I have rebooted it several times.

[boojum]

Well, it seems that the source WAV is OK, the FLACs are variously bad on each successive FLACing.  So, hardware or software?  The machine is working well otherwise, so I would concentrate on the software.  foobar2000 will do a nice job of running FLAC.  So will the FLAC "front end" which is just a menuing program to run the flac.exe file.  CD Wave Editor will also run FLAC compression.

So, I would FLAC one file, the same one, with CD Wave Editor, foobar2000 and FLAC front end.  See which one is failing.  If it shows up with this test we are pretty sure we will have found the offending software package.     

What release of FLAC are you using???   1.1.4 is current.

Cheers

[JackoRoses]

Well, it seems that the source WAV is OK, the FLACs are variously bad on each successive FLACing.  So, hardware or software?  The machine is working well otherwise, so I would concentrate on the software.  foobar2000 will do a nice job of running FLAC.  So will the FLAC "front end" which is just a menuing program to run the flac.exe file.  CD Wave Editor will also run FLAC compression.

So, I would FLAC one file, the same one, with CD Wave Editor, foobar2000 and FLAC front end.  See which one is failing.  If it shows up with this test we are pretty sure we will have found the offending software package.     

What release of FLAC are you using???   1.1.4 is current.

Cheers

1.1.2 I thought for some reason I had updated it. thank you for bringing that up.

this is odd, I am using the flac front end version 1.7.1 etree version
in the cmd prompt I get this
C:\Documents and Settings\user>flac -v
flac 1.1.2
so when I go to the flac website to download 1.1.4 and try to install it. I get an error message saying I already have 1.1.4b installed... I'm going to uninstall flac and see about a fresh start.

[F.O.Bean]

Well, it seems that the source WAV is OK, the FLACs are variously bad on each successive FLACing.  So, hardware or software?  The machine is working well otherwise, so I would concentrate on the software.  foobar2000 will do a nice job of running FLAC.  So will the FLAC "front end" which is just a menuing program to run the flac.exe file.  CD Wave Editor will also run FLAC compression.

So, I would FLAC one file, the same one, with CD Wave Editor, foobar2000 and FLAC front end.  See which one is failing.  If it shows up with this test we are pretty sure we will have found the offending software package.     

What release of FLAC are you using???   1.1.4 is current.

Cheers

1.1.2 I thought for some reason I had updated it. thank you for bringing that up.

this is odd, I am using the flac front end version 1.7.1 etree version
in the cmd prompt I get this
C:\Documents and Settings\user>flac -v
flac 1.1.2
so when I go to the flac website to download 1.1.4 and try to install it. I get an error message saying I already have 1.1.4b installed... I'm going to uninstall flac and see about a fresh start.

thats what I would do bud! Let us know how it works out in case someday this thread may help someone else out

[kskreider]

Yes, uninstalling and re-installing a newer version would be a great idea.  My first inclination was software b/c it looked like a decent build with quality components and has run fine for 4 mos already.  Good luck and keep us posted...

[L Ron Hoover]

Definitely run memtest 86. I will never install new memory without testing it again. Fortunately all the FLAC files that were corrupted were shows that I downloaded and not my masters. Why is screwed up the files, I don't know, but it did piss me off.

[boojum]

There are going to be multiple copies of FLAC on your system.  The "path" statement points you to, I think, the system 32 folder where the earlier copy of FLAC resides.  Delete that copy and your 1.1.4 will be the active FLAC you are using.  I had the same problem until some kind soul on hydrogenaudio.org told me what the problem was.

Try that, the run the tests and see what happens.  FLAC is rock solid for me.  I am also using the new beta of CDWave Editor which has 1.1.4 in it rather than 1.1.2.

Keep us posted and we can all shoot this bug.    ;o)

[JackoRoses]

Definitely run memtest 86. I will never install new memory without testing it again. Fortunately all the FLAC files that were corrupted were shows that I downloaded and not my masters. Why is screwed up the files, I don't know, but it did piss me off.

I agree, I ran it when I first put together the system than I ran prime 95 for 2 days.
It has been pretty rock solid. Until this past week.

There are going to be multiple copies of FLAC on your system.  The "path" statement points you to, I think, the system 32 folder where the earlier copy of FLAC resides.  Delete that copy and your 1.1.4 will be the active FLAC you are using.  I had the same problem until some kind soul on hydrogenaudio.org told me what the problem was.

Try that, the run the tests and see what happens.  FLAC is rock solid for me.  I am also using the new beta of CDWave Editor which has 1.1.4 in it rather than 1.1.2.

Keep us posted and we can all shoot this bug.    ;o)

Thanks for those tips. I am going to start working on it again now.

[dorrcoq]

Or you could use Trader's Little Helper, although the latest version of that didn't work so well for me......

[JackoRoses]

sorted out the version issue with flac but the quirk is still there. I don't have a floppy drive installed and the bootable thumb drive didn't work even though the bios supports several usb boot options. So I can't run a memtest until I get a floppy drive installed. My friend has a usb floppy and I'm going to try that first when I can get over there this weekend
In the meantime I will keep running prime with the ram intensive torture test.
My friend seems to suggest the heat is causing the problems but my system temps right now with prime on are 42C cpu temp and cores are 44C
hard drive temp never went over 35C while doing the audio encoding etc.
thank you for all the suggestions.

[kskreider]

there is a bootable memtest iso file on their website.  Cant you just put it on a CD?

[JackoRoses]

there is a bootable memtest iso file on their website.  Cant you just put it on a CD?

DOH

[boojum]

Well, if you are using just the one version of FLAC, 1.1.4, and it is still failing it is unlikely that 1.1.4 is the rat.  It works for the rest of us.  If the memtest is not the problem it sounds like a hardware (drive) problem.  Do you have trouble writing any other files??

[JackoRoses]

Well, if you are using just the one version of FLAC, 1.1.4, and it is still failing it is unlikely that 1.1.4 is the rat.  It works for the rest of us.  If the memtest is not the problem it sounds like a hardware (drive) problem.  Do you have trouble writing any other files??

I have ruled out flac and didn't really think that was the real culprit from the beginning.
Yet finding the different version(s) in my system was enough alarm to continue following that trail till it ended.

I left prime running all evening and night and was still running as of this AM when I left.
I am going to burn that bootable memtest onto disc when I get home and run memtest.
I feel like a fool as well since I looked right at that bootable ISO file and it never once rang a bell.
I was too hung up on getting the usb boot option to work for me never even looked beyond it.

[it-goes-to-eleven]

I had a PC that would corrupt disk transfers every once in a while...  I'd mainly notice it when I'd copy 70gigs of flacs to the system. I'd find a few of them that would not test/extract without error. Memory testing would not find a problem like that.

I suspect a hardware problem though it could be software. Bad drive, bad disk controller, bad disk, memory, etc.

Maybe try copying WAVs and verifying the md5's.  But keep in mind if you have a disk problem the clock may be ticking to a complete meltdown.

[kskreider]

chkdsk is your friend, as is memtest and google.

My suggestion (as I head into a new build myself) is to go to all your hardware manufacturers web sites and make absolutely positive that A) you have all of the updated drivers, and B) that you have hardware that plays nice with each other.  (i.e. no running with scissors or rock fights)

And, lastly, if you are going to open her back up to reseat RAM it can't hurt to check your disk drive cables and make sure they are all seated properly as well.   I once had a PC where [somehow] the power plug from the PS to the mobo wiggled loose and it was doing all kinds of crazy things.

[boyacrobat]

did you cut and paste md5 or txt or create in folder,
advise to create in folder, this was my problem
had simular problem, doing this was the fix.


g

[JackoRoses]

memtest has been running for over 13 hours and has made 29 passes with 0 errors.
I left it running still but I doubt ram is an issue at this point.
Reseating the ram isn't going to help either at this point because memtest would of failed by now yet let's see what the results are when I get back home.

I have checked my events log and I have not see any indication of a disk controller going bad or a hard drive. I have ran chkdsk (passed) on the drive I am doing all this work on which is a brand new fujitsu u320 drive.
I know that doesn't mean a lot since hardware can be bad right out of the box.
Also S.M.A.R.T is enabled on all my drives and the temps and integrity of the drives all show excellent status.

I have also updated most of the drivers since this started happening. The only thing left is the lan and to check to see if intel has released a newer driver for the chipset. Oh and to update the bios as well.

Yes the next option is opening the machine up and reseating all connectors and hardware.

One other thing I have not done yet is to replicate my work on another disk on the same machine.
I am going to try that as well since it can't hurt although that drive is on the same scsi controller.
Anyone have any suggestions for testing a SCSI controller? I am using a 29160N Using the SP5 drivers

I would think after running this sytem 24/7 for the last 4 months that the hardware has shown that it is all capable of playing nicely together.

[JackoRoses]

Maybe I missed it but have you copied a ton of data and verified the md5's?

not a ton but a few gigs to the server. They checked out ok. I am even seeding one show that I did transfer for over. But again haven't done much testing there as I was performing other tests.
Plus I haven't had a lot of time to spend on it this past week.

[JackoRoses]

I had a PC that would corrupt disk transfers every once in a while...  I'd mainly notice it when I'd copy 70gigs of flacs to the system. I'd find a few of them that would not test/extract without error. Memory testing would not find a problem like that.

I suspect a hardware problem though it could be software. Bad drive, bad disk controller, bad disk, memory, etc.

Maybe try copying WAVs and verifying the md5's.  But keep in mind if you have a disk problem the clock may be ticking to a complete meltdown.

what did you do do to fix the problem? buy a new pc?
I'm not worried about a disk meltdown, that disk has all data backed up on it since it's for audio editing only. It's new and the warranty will cover it. I just want to know the issue so I can move on...

[it-goes-to-eleven]

Maybe I missed it but have you copied a ton of data and verified the md5's?

not a ton but a few gigs to the server. They checked out ok. I am even seeding one show that I did transfer for over. But again haven't done much testing there as I was performing other tests.
Plus I haven't had a lot of time to spend on it this past week.

Copying to the server doesn't really replicate the workflow of the flac problem because flac typically reads and writes from the same drive/location. You need to emulate the data flow of flac. That is read, process and write.

How often does this problem occur when using flac? Is it every file?  Every 10GB?

There was no real fix for my problem system. I ended up running all the drives off an external promise disk controller. It was a via mb and cpu.

[JackoRoses]

Maybe I missed it but have you copied a ton of data and verified the md5's?

not a ton but a few gigs to the server. They checked out ok. I am even seeding one show that I did transfer for over. But again haven't done much testing there as I was performing other tests.
Plus I haven't had a lot of time to spend on it this past week.

Copying to the server doesn't really replicate the workflow of the flac problem because flac typically reads and writes from the same drive/location. You need to emulate the data flow of flac. That is read, process and write.

How often does this problem occur when using flac? Is it every file?  Every 10GB?

There was no real fix for my problem system. I ended up running all the drives off an external promise disk controller. It was a via mb and cpu.

Yea I'm already running on an external controller.
Well 24 hours memtest over 50 passes and 0 errors. When I booted it back up I proceeded to abuse the drive and controller pretty well but everything passed all md5 and flac tests. Created wavs, encoded back to flac tested verified decoded to wav and checked the original .wav md5 eventually re encoded the show I was having issues with and everything checked ok now..

It seems the mystery issue may have went underground for now.

[boojum]

Does this happen on hot days only?

[JackoRoses]

Does this happen on hot days only?

it's the first time I have experienced it.