Topic: martix w/ wavelab

[Jimna]

im feeling more comfortable now with wavelab but still havent used it for this.  im still taking the tracks to Vegas and mixing them there.  i really havent stumbled across anything to lead down this path so far using this software.  any help?  i would like to be able to keep it simple and in one program.   

[Craig T]

audio montage.

[Fatah Ruark (aka MIKE B)]

Here is a tutorial I made a while back.

Several people had PM'd me about this. I just found it (thought I had lost it when I shut down my old website).

Anyway hopefully this helps. There is an alternate way to do this by stretching one track to match the other, but I haven't figured that out yet. This seems to work for me, but I bet stretching one file is easier and more accurate.

http://wavelabmatrix.acidcasualties.com/matrix.html

[Jimna]

bummer 'bout those steelers, eh craig?

wavelab is the least easy program so far to just pick up and run with.  im reading the tutorial now....

any quick tips?

[Jimna]

Here is a tutorial I made a while back.

Several people had PM'd me about this. I just found it (thought I had lost it when I shut down my old website).

Anyway hopefully this helps. There is an alternate way to do this by stretching one track to match the other, but I haven't figured that out yet. This seems to work for me, but I bet stretching one file is easier and more accurate.

http://wavelabmatrix.acidcasualties.com/matrix.html

nice thanks.  +T

[Jimna]

wow mike b, ^^that was perfect.  exactly what i needed to get me going.  thanks again.

[Fatah Ruark (aka MIKE B)]

wow mike b, ^^that was perfect.  exactly what i needed to get me going.  thanks again.

No problem. +T back to ya!

[chrisdavis]

Here is a tutorial I made a while back.

Several people had PM'd me about this. I just found it (thought I had lost it when I shut down my old website).

Anyway hopefully this helps. There is an alternate way to do this by stretching one track to match the other, but I haven't figured that out yet. This seems to work for me, but I bet stretching one file is easier and more accurate.

http://wavelabmatrix.acidcasualties.com/matrix.html

thanks so much for this!!!  last nite i got a sbd with one recorder and my aud with the other recorder, and was clueless how to get started with the mtx.  TS rules my face!!!   +T for sure!

[beatkilla]

im feeling more comfortable now with wavelab but still havent used it for this.  im still taking the tracks to Vegas and mixing them there.  i really havent stumbled across anything to lead down this path so far using this software.  any help?  i would like to be able to keep it simple and in one program.   

Why not do it all in Vegas?

[easy jim]

im feeling more comfortable now with wavelab but still havent used it for this.  im still taking the tracks to Vegas and mixing them there.  i really havent stumbled across anything to lead down this path so far using this software.  any help?  i would like to be able to keep it simple and in one program.   

Why not do it all in Vegas?

Absolutely...why not in Vegas? 

Though the learning curve may be a bit steeper, Vegas is going to be a lot better/more accurate at editing and definitely supports time-scaling (stretching or shrinking audio files in time without changing pitch) so you can make a 'full' instead of a 'patchwork' matrix without drift potentially affecting the end of each track.

[Fatah Ruark (aka MIKE B)]

im feeling more comfortable now with wavelab but still havent used it for this.  im still taking the tracks to Vegas and mixing them there.  i really havent stumbled across anything to lead down this path so far using this software.  any help?  i would like to be able to keep it simple and in one program.   

Why not do it all in Vegas?

Absolutely...why not in Vegas? 

Though the learning curve may be a bit steeper, Vegas is going to be a lot better/more accurate at editing and definitely supports time-scaling (stretching or shrinking audio files in time without changing pitch) so you can make a 'full' instead of a 'patchwork' matrix without drift potentially affecting the end of each track.

Yes, I need to learn to do this next. It seems like it's so much easier. Long songs give me trouble with this method (due to drift).

[Jimna]

my sources are both from the r4, so no drift. 

im not liking the way WL audio montage lets you work with the files, its not so user friendly as vegas.  might go back to vegas for this....

although im not sure i like the dither and sample rate converter in vegas/soundforge either.  hummm....

[Gordon]

although im not sure i like the dither and sample rate converter in vegas/soundforge either.  hummm....

use plugins

[Jimna]

what plugins do you use?

[Gordon]

well i don't really use soundforge (every now and then).  I use wavelab and now audition 3.  however 99% of the plugins work for all editing software.  vst, direct x, ozone to name a few.

[rowjimmytour]

my sources are both from the r4, so no drift. 

im not liking the way WL audio montage lets you work with the files, its not so user friendly as vegas.  might go back to vegas for this....

although im not sure i like the dither and sample rate converter in vegas/soundforge either.  hummm....

I am starting to like this combo now and my last two matrix mix went real smooth. Easyjim just sent me a new one and I am going to fool around w/ some editing (EQ, comression) that I usually don't touch to often. Not sure why you don't like the dither on SF. I set mine to triangle and can't remember the other thing for more accurate yet slower but I seem to be getting results.
Peace

[F.O.Bean]

So, who knows how to do the 'Time Stretch' way to do a Matrix? Where I could just shorten the DAUD source and it wouldnt alter the pitch or speed of the recording. I believe there is a tutorial on ts.com with that method as ell. I believe you first have to cut your sources on the exact same place in the show(ie, when the FIRST note of the show and the last note of the show and then figure out the time of both of them, and shorten or stretch one of them to align to thje other(SBD) source since its the one without the drift. If we get a SBD patch for NYE, we need to patch it into a 702 or 7xx and time synch it with mine

[Jimna]

my sources are both from the r4, so no drift. 

im not liking the way WL audio montage lets you work with the files, its not so user friendly as vegas.  might go back to vegas for this....

although im not sure i like the dither and sample rate converter in vegas/soundforge either.  hummm....

I am starting to like this combo now and my last two matrix mix went real smooth. Easyjim just sent me a new one and I am going to fool around w/ some editing (EQ, comression) that I usually don't touch to often. Not sure why you don't like the dither on SF. I set mine to triangle and can't remember the other thing for more accurate yet slower but I seem to be getting results.
Peace

maybe i should give SF another go.  i def like the vegas better for mixing sources, hands down.  WL is very unfriendly for this.  i tried it with 2 sets and got no where but frustrated....and finished them with vegas.

[rowjimmytour]

my sources are both from the r4, so no drift. 

im not liking the way WL audio montage lets you work with the files, its not so user friendly as vegas.  might go back to vegas for this....

although im not sure i like the dither and sample rate converter in vegas/soundforge either.  hummm....

I am starting to like this combo now and my last two matrix mix went real smooth. Easyjim just sent me a new one and I am going to fool around w/ some editing (EQ, comression) that I usually don't touch to often. Not sure why you don't like the dither on SF. I set mine to triangle and can't remember the other thing for more accurate yet slower but I seem to be getting results.
Peace

maybe i should give SF another go.  i def like the vegas better for mixing sources, hands down.  WL is very unfriendly for this.  i tried it with 2 sets and got no where but frustrated....and finished them with vegas.

After many tutorials w/ a fellow member I am starting to feel good about compression and EQ w/ SF 8. Like any thing you have to get use to it but I would say SF is more user friendly then WL but now w/ Vista I don't have much of a choice (WL and Vista don't get along).
Peace

[F.O.Bean]

I just tried the time stretch, and it didnt work too well. Should I see what the time difference is and apply a ms delay?

[easy jim]

I just tried the time stretch, and it didnt work too well. Should I see what the time difference is and apply a ms delay?

Bean - it usually takes me a few tries and some trial and error to get it right in AudioDesk/Digital Performer.  After some practice, it becomes a lot easier.

The key is to find a good sync point as close to the beginning and as close to the end of the track(s), and zoom in as close as possible because you'll want to look at/calculate the amount of drift at the finest level of detail; that is fractions of a milisec or even # of samples.  If there is some time before/after your sync points, you'll need to adjust your drift calculation to account for that extra time beyond your sync points.

[F.O.Bean]

I just tried the time stretch, and it didnt work too well. Should I see what the time difference is and apply a ms delay?

Bean - it usually takes me a few tries and some trial and error to get it right in AudioDesk/Digital Performer.  After some practice, it becomes a lot easier.

The key is to find a good sync point as close to the beginning and as close to the end of the track(s), and zoom in as close as possible because you'll want to look at/calculate the amount of drift at the finest level of detail; that is fractions of a milisec or even # of samples.  If there is some time before/after your sync points, you'll need to adjust your drift calculation to account for that extra time beyond your sync points.

I tried this and tracked the SBD/DAUD in CDWAVE, and it didnt work too well. SHould I just zoom way in with WL and track it in that?

EDIT: The first 10 mins or so was synced up perfectly, but thats when teh drift set in. Also, I must note that I was probably 40+ feet away from the stage when I record at Mr. Small's Theatre, in Millvale, PA..........Thats why the drift is so damn bad!

[easy jim]

I tried this and tracked the SBD/DAUD in CDWAVE, and it didnt work too well. SHould I just zoom way in with WL and track it in that?

EDIT: The first 10 mins or so was synced up perfectly, but thats when teh drift set in. Also, I must note that I was probably 40+ feet away from the stage when I record at Mr. Small's Theatre, in Millvale, PA..........Thats why the drift is so damn bad!

Which software are you using to time-scale?  Tracking should not come into play until after you have time-scaled and mixed down to a final stereo mix.

It is normal that the drift does not become apparent until a little while into the show. The amount of 'drift' is a result of the difference between the internal time keeping of the clocks of the two recorders and 'drift' increases with the length of the two sources recorded.  It  does not have anything to do with the distance from the stage, however, which is the 'delay' between the sound reaching your mics from the PA/stage and the more immediate/direct feeds that make up the SBD source.  'Delay' remains constant and is a function of time/distance from the stage.

[F.O.Bean]

Oh I understand all of that

I just chopped my WHOle set up in CD Wave just so it was on the same start/stop time of each source. I did that with both the SBD and DAUD.

I am thinking since I was farther than 30' from the stage, that maybe I should apply a small ms delay. maybe that will help with the alignment of the 2 sources somehow/someway. I tloosk liek I'm going to have to keep the DAUD set whole and then chop the SBD up in 2min chunks......Its just a PITA that way. I was just trying to find a diff route that would avoid doing that

If I do get a RAQ SBD for NYE, I am trying to borrow a 702 and sync it to my 722 so this isnt a problem next time round! And I should *HOPEFULLY* be FOB enough that a delay shouldnt be necessary in post. I should be within 30'.