Topic: Mk4's with an NBox running open

[darktrain]

Ok now that i got these coming, what is the simplest/least expensive way to run these open(maybe a few times a year), did some searching and not really sure what is what and is there any good DIY ideas or pics floating around as a alternative.

[DSatz]

Darktrain, I strongly recommend a slightly spaced arrangement with cardioids unless perfect mono compatibility is a requirement for some reason (which would be rare nowadays).

The ORTF method is one such approach that works well in a very wide range of applications. This involves spacing the capsules 17 cm apart and facing them outward at a total included angle of 110 degrees. The stereophonic recording angle of a setup like that is ca. +/- 49 degrees.

Schoeps makes a relatively inexpensive accessory called the "STC" which holds two capsules on Colette cables at this distance and angle, but you can also rig up this type of arrangement by other means.

--best regards

[darktrain]

Darktrain, I strongly recommend a slightly spaced arrangement with cardioids unless perfect mono compatibility is a requirement for some reason (which would be rare nowadays).

The ORTF method is one such approach that works well in a very wide range of applications. This involves spacing the capsules 17 cm apart and facing them outward at a total included angle of 110 degrees. The stereophonic recording angle of a setup like that is ca. +/- 49 degrees.

Schoeps makes a relatively inexpensive accessory called the "STC" which holds two capsules on Colette cables at this distance and angle, but you can also rig up this type of arrangement by other means.

--best regards

Thanks that some of what i was wondering, any non schoeps brand that does the same or any homemade plans just so i can see all the options ideas

[Shawn]

a kwon bar does the same sort of thing with different stereo configs. You can PM kwonfidelity for more info.

[DSatz]

Right, there's Kwon, and Shure makes a very nice (if somewhat heavy) mounting gadget called the A27M which is useful for this and many other coincident and near-coincident arrangements with two microphones. It's not limited to any one type or brand of microphone, or any one recording technique, and highly recommended.

http://www.shure.com/ProAudio/Products/Accessories/us_pro_A27M_content

To use it with your MK 4 capsules on Colette cables (which I'm told is what an "NBox" works with) you would need 5/8" to 3/8" thread adapters, which are cheap and easy to find. Do you have Schoeps SGC stand adapters for your capsules?

http://www.posthorn.com/S_coletteaccess.html#table5

--best regards

[Tim]

A Vark Bar with the SGC clips works well too

[darktrain]

Haven't got them yet(paid for) just planning ahead so nothing for a stand yet(have a stand just no mount), sounds like the sgc clips are probably the way to go and i actually havea homemade 17cm 3/8 bar i made a while back

[DSatz]

> would those sgc clips work with the standard akg bar [?]

They work with any standard 3/8" stand coupling. Depending on what type of stereo bar you have, you may need a pair of Things like the one in the attached photo.

(AKG's stereo bars, mike stands and boom arms are actually made by König & Meyer; www.k-m.de)

--best regards

[Craig T]

schoeps a20s shockmount (or other compatible fixed/shock mounts) with any of the following bars: schoeps stcg (ortf), kwonbar din, kwonbar nos.
schoeps m100c or vark bar with sgc clamps.

[terrapinj]

A Vark Bar with the SGC clips works well too

this will be the most cost effective and versatile method aside from DIY

[Tim]

A Vark Bar with the SGC clips works well too

this will be the most cost effective and versatile method aside from DIY

I'm not sure why that setup isn't more popular. I like the various bars but, as you said, this is more versatile and cheaper. Do people not consider it "low profile" enough?

[terrapinj]

A Vark Bar with the SGC clips works well too

this will be the most cost effective and versatile method aside from DIY

I'm not sure why that setup isn't more popular. I like the various bars but, as you said, this is more versatile and cheaper. Do people not consider it "low profile" enough?

well its not quite as hassle free to set up - with a KWON bar etc you pull it out of your bag with caps already in place and are ready to go - little more set up with the Vark bar but well worth it IMO - must have if youre running and of the "V" caps IMO

[Tim]

yes, you're right for a real low profile situation it is nice to just pull the bar out and throw the mics up

[Brian Skalinder]

well its not quite as hassle free to set up - with a KWON bar etc you pull it out of your bag with caps already in place and are ready to go

This is what I do with my Vark bar.

[terrapinj]

well its not quite as hassle free to set up - with a KWON bar etc you pull it out of your bag with caps already in place and are ready to go

This is what I do with my Vark bar.

don't you still need to fine tune the angles a bit? do they stay perfectly in place in your bag?

[Brian Skalinder]

don't you still need to fine tune the angles a bit? do they stay perfectly in place in your bag?

If I'm reasonably careful, which I usually am, they stay in place.  Whether it would work for everyone probably depends on the bag setup.  And if I have to adjust angles, only takes about 3 seconds to fine-tune.

[terrapinj]

i guess if you tighten the SGC clips enough they wouldn't really move too much 

i still think Vark bar is the way to go

[jerryfreak]

if youre handy at all, its trivial to make a bar out of two $20 sg20 stand clamps, with a spacer made out of a 20mm rod between them. mine is the same spacing as ortf, with infinitely adjustable angles. add a shockmount, and youre set for just about any situation. I have run this configuration many many times FOB on a stand and its pretty unobtrusive

[towanda]

I'm pretty new to all this, and am in the same situation as the OP. The vark bar and SGCs sounds pretty good.
I don't really know what to make of the vark bar though: Why is there...something on one end but not the other and what is that "thing" exactly?



Also re:

Just measured mine:

3-3/4" tall (includes mount bar + vertical / tubular base for sliding into a shockmount)
5" long
13/16" deep

with 3/8" holes drilled (centered) at the 1/2", 1-1/4", 1-7/8", 2-1/2"*, 3-1/8", 3-3/4", and 4-1/2" marks on the long (5") dimension.

* center hole for the vertical support bar that drops into an A20/S shockmount.

So that would be, with regard to this pic, 5" top to bottom, 3" front to back and 13/16" from left to right?
*No wait, that can't be right, there's seven holes and seven measurements. So the maximum spacing you can get with one of these is 4" between clamps? That can't be right either, a little help?

[towanda]

OK, i just found another post saying that there is not enough spacing for running NOS. So i assume you can run ORTF or DIN though, right? And the SGC will allow you to adjust the angle to run say ORTF or DINA?

[jerryfreak]

so your mic bodies dont hit each other when running wide-angled patterns, or to do x-y, i beleive

I'm pretty new to all this, and am in the same situation as the OP. The vark bar and SGCs sounds pretty good.
I don't really know what to make of the vark bar though: Why is there...something on one end but not the other and what is that "thing" exactly?



Also re:

Just measured mine:

3-3/4" tall (includes mount bar + vertical / tubular base for sliding into a shockmount)
5" long
13/16" deep

with 3/8" holes drilled (centered) at the 1/2", 1-1/4", 1-7/8", 2-1/2"*, 3-1/8", 3-3/4", and 4-1/2" marks on the long (5") dimension.

* center hole for the vertical support bar that drops into an A20/S shockmount.

So that would be, with regard to this pic, 5" top to bottom, 3" front to back and 13/16" from left to right?
*No wait, that can't be right, there's seven holes and seven measurements. So the maximum spacing you can get with one of these is 4" between clamps? That can't be right either, a little help?

[towanda]

so your mic bodies dont hit each other when running wide-angled patterns, or to do x-y, i beleive

Ah, of course. It's a riser. Thanks

[Brian Skalinder]

See attached pic for measurement help.  To adjust the angle, one loosens the bolthead on the bottom, the top screw-end of which screws into the SGC clips.  Align to the desired angle, and tighten again.

I vaguely recall the Vark + SGC clips + MKx caps with active cables doesn't provide precisely ORTF/DIN/DINA, but it's mighty close.  Alright, so I decided to measure.  Vark + SGC + MK5 caps with actives does:  DINA, ORTF (within a few millimeters), XY (within a couple millimeters depending on the angle one uses), Mid-Side (within a couple millimeters), and Blumlein, all with flexibility in the included angle between mics.  Of course, modifying the included angle, and using different length MK caps will impact the spacing distance slightly.  At any rate, for me, lack of DIN and spacing off by a few millimeters in a couple cases is worth it for the light weight, small footprint, and flexibility/capability of setting the included angle.

To learn more about the impact of spacing and included angle (and why ability to change the included angle is so useful), check out Michael Williams' "The Stereophonic Zoom" (hosted on the Rycote site).

[towanda]

Thanks for doing that Brian, very informative. For some reason i wasn't reading 13/16" as thirteen sixteenths, d'oh. Now it all makes sense. That pdf looks like an interesting read too, cheers.