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Gear / Technical Help => Battery Boxes, Preamps, Mixers, ADCs, and Processors => Topic started by: ashevillain on September 02, 2004, 02:50:27 PM
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Pay no attention to this post. Scroll down for the real info.
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IME, the lights hit at around -2/-3dB, so flicking is okay, steady flash is probably too hot. You'll get the feel for it...
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as long as the lights dont stay on more than 2 seconds you'll be OK
i run mine hot, i like to see it light up...if it aint lighting up it aint hot enough, baby!
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I've looked for and found the clips in shows where I noted the time when the light blinked. No audible issues but the wave did show a clip. I guess that it's possible that the light came on in advance of the clip.
It should be easy to test this if you have an SBM1 ahead of a deck with a margin indicator - like a DAP1. Just put a line signal into the SBM1 and advance the gain until you see the light come on. Then check the margin indicator on the other unit. Or run it into your soundcard digital input and look at the wave file.
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the level monitors on the portable dats are analog and not totally accurate.. I don't know that the test that Teabag mentioned would really prove anything.
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I thought the DAP1 meter took its levels from the digital signal. I don't know for sure so I'll defer on that one.
Anyway, you can still run a digital feed from the SBM1 to a PC's spdif input and determine the sample value at which the over LED illuminates on the SBM1.
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hmmm... I could be wrong. That's what I was taught and that's what I've always believed...
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I questioned my assumption and went looking for the info. I found the DAP1 manual. From the manual:
"Margin is a digital peak hold meter, showing the available headroom before digital saturation is reached and distortion occurs."
So that is why I thought it might be used to measure the SBM1 over LED threshhold. I know someone who still has an SBM1 and DAP1, we may have to run a little test. Seems like a 3 beer project.
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Clips can happen - but as long as they are short and fast - they will be very, very hard to hear...
So if the light comes on every so often - no problem - but you know how some people are...dang perfectionists~~!!
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I questioned my assumption and went looking for the info. I found the DAP1 manual. From the manual:
"Margin is a digital peak hold meter, showing the available headroom before digital saturation is reached and distortion occurs."
So that is why I thought it might be used to measure the SBM1 over LED threshhold. I know someone who still has an SBM1 and DAP1, we may have to run a little test. Seems like a 3 beer project.
+T for you -T for me... nice job!
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as long as the lights dont stay on more than 2 seconds you'll be OK
2 seconds huh? I have been running it so I get the flicker but not steady on...looks like I need to bump it up a notch.
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flicker, not steady
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yeah...i guess flicker is a better word. 2 seconds to mee is steady. i think if you go to -3db it flashes. the flashes seem to last about a half a second
again i like to run it hot, and like to see it flashing regularly
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fllickers at peaks are good, its a forgiving unit.
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i guess i go a bit lighter than you folks...
ideally, i will see a flicker, make an adjustment, and not see the over lights again. while i never get to 0 this way, i peak at between -3 and -1 dB, and that is close enough for me...
but maybe that is why my tapes sound like ass :P
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Mac,
I do the same thing....always want to be sure I am NOT going over. I see it light up and move the level a wee bit down. I make all level adjustments later in post processing.
I used to patch with some guys here that loved it hot. Well, I can tell you that I got more than a few instances of the digi-farts (wayyyy over).
Your stuff does not sound like ass,
ANDY
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a flicker doesn't mean you are hitting 0..if I remember right when it starts to flicker you still have 2 or so db's of headroom left.
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as long as the lights dont stay on more than 2 seconds you'll be OK
i run mine hot, i like to see it light up...if it aint lighting up it aint hot enough, baby!
Word! so happy to hear some one else hears what I hear....
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as long as the lights dont stay on more than 2 seconds you'll be OK
i run mine hot, i like to see it light up...if it aint lighting up it aint hot enough, baby!
Word! so happy to hear some one else hears what I hear....
I always ran mine like that too. Sounded awesome, no audible issues, but still clipping of the waveform occasionall when viewed in cool edit.
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I just ran the modSBM > NJB3 at 'The Catch' here at Bumbershoot. I set the gain and then just walked in and didn't bother checking the levels (those meters are worthless), I did notice that the over light was more than just flickering about ten to fifteen minutes into it....I would get an occasional 1-2 sec long light and then flickering for about %30-50 of the time. I noticed no clipping upon listening later (during the show, I freaked and turned it down anyway). It actually sounds pretty awesome. So far, FRI: The Divorce, Taarka (full rig), Burning Spear; SAT: Laura Veirs (full rig) and The Catch. Just popped in for a breather before getting Omar Faruk (or DBT if Omar is sucking ass). I am running LoSammy's MG200s into the Sax and modSBM.
ANDY
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I just ran the modSBM > NJB3 at 'The Catch' here at Bumbershoot. I set the gain and then just walked in and didn't bother checking the levels (those meters are worthless), I did notice that the over light was more than just flickering about ten to fifteen minutes into it....I would get an occasional 1-2 sec long light and then flickering for about %30-50 of the time. I noticed no clipping upon listening later (during the show, I freaked and turned it down anyway). It actually sounds pretty awesome. So far, FRI: The Divorce, Taarka (full rig), Burning Spear; SAT: Laura Veirs (full rig) and The Catch. Just popped in for a breather before getting Omar Faruk (or DBT if Omar is sucking ass). I am running LoSammy's MG200s into the Sax and modSBM.
ANDY
it certainly is a forgiving unit. i wonder what the levels will say when you open the waveform - keep us posted...
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[thread hijack]
how was burning spear..?
if "DBT" = drive by truckers - go tape them. nick gregory just turned me onto them - you will dig them. i have never listened to the derek trucks band, so i don't know about them...
have fun.
[/thread hijack]
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well i like to run my gear hot. i was planning on running the mp-2 @ about 1/4 and then xlr out -> rca in to the sbm-1. based on that i'd expect not to have to raise the sbm-1 past 3 or 4 to get the light to flicker.
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...now, I know this has been covered before, but isn't it recommended that you run your SBM 1 above "6" (something to do with it being a limiter on the signal it's being sent)?
I usually run my V2 at around 20-25 gain, and set the 'BM's levels after that...slight flicker, nothing lighting up for more than one second. Have yet to have anything nasty happen on my recordings that wasn't my own damn fault.
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...now, I know this has been covered before, but isn't it recommended that you run your SBM 1 above "6" (something to do with it being a limiter on the signal it's being sent)?
I usually run my V2 at around 20-25 gain, and set the 'BM's levels after that...slight flicker, nothing lighting up for more than one second. Have yet to have anything nasty happen on my recordings that wasn't my own damn fault.
my experience was above 3.5
but that is with the stock unit. once doug oade has modded it, you can run it safely at any level (somebody please correct me if i am wrong about this)...
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Report: A few clipped waveforms from my 'hot' recording of shows at Bumbershoot (The Catch and Kuma). Unusally, both shows were LOUD, the crowd was not. The shows will probably get posted when I get to Japan this November.
Again, I ran with the DPA4061 > MPS6010 > (mic-in) dual mod SBM > NJB3 'blind'.....starting the recording before I walked into the venue. I only used the SBM over light as an indication of if I was going over and pretty much guessed where the dial should have been for the show (I guessed 4.5). The SBM over lights were lighting up for as long as a second. There are a few peaks that obviously went over 0dB when I look at them on Wavelab, conincide with the kick drums. Nothing serious, I can't even tell when I listen to those spots.
I'd say blinking and flickering at percussive peaks is what you are striving for, and I think a 'second or two' can be really relative, if you know what I mean.
ANDY
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I'd say blinking and flickering at percussive peaks is what you are striving for, and I think a 'second or two' can be really relative, if you know what I mean.
ANDY
amen brother
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well i like to run my gear hot. i was planning on running the mp-2 @ about 1/4 and then xlr out -> rca in to the sbm-1. based on that i'd expect not to have to raise the sbm-1 past 3 or 4 to get the light to flicker.
crank the sbm-1...
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the lights are cooler on the mp-2 tho ;D
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at loud shows though, if you run the mp2 anything above the dead left position, you will have a rough time getting the sbm anywhere above 5, more likely around 3.5-4
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wow...
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we shall see what happens. im thinking of going to tape les' band at the fillmore as that will easily be the loudest show i'll see in the next couple months.
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which outs are you using out of the MP2? Forgot to mention that...the XLR outs give you somewhere around +16db of gain. The mini tape out is like 6dbs (dont quote me on the numbers...but I can say categorically that the mini puts out a lesser signal than the XLR outs)
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i have a pair of female xlr ->male rca cables that i was gonna use to connect the mp-2 to the sbm-1.
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i have a pair of female xlr ->male rca cables that i was gonna use to connect the mp-2 to the sbm-1.
ok, you will be running it the same way I do, so you should have the same results...will be interested to hear your report back
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send ramsden a pm and ask him to get on the stick with the mod and i'll let ya know sooner rather than later.
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send ramsden a pm and ask him to get on the stick with the mod and i'll let ya know sooner rather than later.
yeah, just what I need to do...piss of Todd....
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1st time out w/ my newly acquired MP-2:
Show = Col. Bruce & the Codetalkers
MP-2 = 1/8" out, gain knobs fully counterclockwise
SBM-1 = cranked to 10, "over" lights blinking during loud segments
Recording = no audible clipping
Waveform = definitely goes at least up to 0