Topic: Samplitude questions

[JasonSobel]

I've been thinking about condensing and simplifying my work flow into one program, so today, I purchased Samplitude SE v9, based on the positive experiences that some folks here have related (and it was only $50).  I've been playing around with it all day, and there's a few specific things that are really bugging me because I can't figure them out.

For now, all I'm trying to do is this:
open up my 16 / 44.1 wav file (from a DAT transfer), place my CD track markers, and export the each CD track to individual files.

I'm coming across several issues, and I'm hoping that there's a way to change these settings.  Maybe I'm just not looking in the right places.  Here's the list...

1) Is there any way to define where the CD should begin.  I'm using CD/DVD | Set CD Track Index (Ctrl+Alt+I) for each CD break.  And after the last track, I figured out the CD/DVD | Set CD End Index.  I can then export the tracks to individual files (File | Export Audio | Wave...).  The thing is, I've got about one minute of silence at the beginning of the file.  I created a CD index shortly after the audio actually starts (while still in crowd noise), and everything before that marker, I just want to throw away and not export.  I could always just delete the first file that has been exported, but then I have to renumber all the other files.  Is there any way to set the beginning of the CD within an object?

2) After I export the files, it always creats a playlist for the new files (a .m3u file).  Is there any way to disable that?  Its just one more file that I have to delete after it gets created.

3) SHNtool tells me that all the .wav files that have been exported have 316 bytes worth of extra RIFF chunks in the wav header.  Even though I know that FLAC will just give a warning and skip over the extra RIFF chunks, this is a problem for me.  I like to create .wav .md5 files before I encode to FLAC.  If the original .wav files have extra RIFF chunks, and .wav files that have been through the FLAC encode /decode process do not have these RIFF chunks, then the .md5's that I create before encoding will not match the .md5's of the encoded/decoded .wav files.  Is there any way to change the output format of the .wav files that Samplitude writes?


Thanks for any and all help with this.
- Jason

[Brian Skalinder]

Regarding 1), no matter where you place the cursor for dropping your first track marker, SAM starts the first track at the beginning of the project (or WAV).  The first "dropped in" track marker (unless you drop the marker at the start of the file) becomes track #2.  If you want to start the first track at a later time, i.e. other than the start of the project / file, add the track marker at your desired drop point, then delete track market #1 at the start of the file.  SAM will then renumber all the other tracks appropriately.

Dunno about 2), I just delete the file (or sometimes forget and leave it in place).  Doesn't much matter ot me, so I haven't bothered seeking a solution.

As for 3), I'm at a complete loss.

I've tried not to let some of the little things bother me because even with the minor tweaks I have to make to my workflow in SAM, it's still make for a generally more seamless workflow than in the past.  Sounds like 3) could be a real issue for your workflow, though.

[JasonSobel]

thanks for the response, Brian (although, I must say, I was hoping you'd come in here and post a detailed, color-coded 15-step procedure to get Samplitude working exactly like I think it should in my head)

your help with my first question is exactly what I needed.  I just hadn't noticed that marker that automatically got set at the start of the file.  but deleting that first marker gets it just how I want it.

In regards to my 2nd question, I agree, its not really a big deal.  I can delete that file.

and for my 3rd question.  after I posted I realized that I can quickly and easily use SHNtool to strip out the extra RIFF chunks before I generate my .wav .md5's.  while it's not ideal (because it's an extra step), if Samplitude can save me 2 or 3 extra steps elsewhere, it may be worthwhile.  For the time being, I'm going to resist the urge to fall back to my familiar WaveLab, and plow ahead with Samplitude.

and now, two more questions (which I'll call (4) and (5), for the sake of clarity).

4) I've got all my CD track markers set up in the VIP.   Before I export the tracks into separate .wav files, what is the best way to add fades (in the VIP) to just the start of the first track and the end of the last track.  I see a whole lot of info about cross-fades, but I'm having trouble finding the fade in/outs.  (however, at this point, my trouble might just be because I've been fiddling around with Samplitude for hours, and I'm getting pretty tired.  perhaps in the morning, this stuff will become more obvious to me).

and

5) Dithering.  Because, in this instance, I'm starting out with a 16 / 44.1 file and I'm not really doing any editing that would require dither, I assume I want to choose the No dithering, math rounding of sample value option, yes?  My thinking is that the 32 bit value that Samplitude has stored really just has 16 zeroes tacked onto a regular 16 bit sample (because there's no processing going on), the "rounded" 16 bit sample should be identical to the original 16 bit sample, yes?

thanks again
- Jason

[JasonSobel]

and the answer is yes, a good night sleep did help.  I figured out the fade in/out without too much difficulty this morning.
It would still be nice to confirm that I'm using the right dithering option for this application ("No Dither" for just tracking out a 16/44.1 wav).

and of course, if any else wants to chime in on my third question in the original post, that's be good too.

Thanks,
Jason

[macdaddy]

jason -

there is an option in the edit menu: "activate auto crossfade" make sure that is unchecked...

re: the dither.

the top "no dither" (the one by itself) is the one you dont want. you want the no dither in the second set of options.

hth

[Brian Skalinder]

the top "no dither" (the one by itself) is the one you dont want. you want the no dither in the second set of options.

In SAM 9 SE the top dither option, set aside from the others, from v8 - No Dither, internal 16-bit resolution, or some such - is gone, so there's just the one "no dither" option left that I see in my SAM 9 SE version:  No Dither, math. rounding of sample value.  Since you're only editing very small portions of the file, Jason, I think it makes sense to use this one.

FWIW, Jason, I apply fades in the Object Editor.  As with many functions in SAM, there may be a couple different ways to do it.

[live2496]

I just looked at a bounced file written with version 8 of Samplitude. This should be similar to version 9 SE regarding files.

It does write out what I would call a standard RIFF header and data chunk. However, it appends some additional info chunks after the data chunk towards the end of the file.

[macdaddy]

it def. does something that requires running through shntool....

[JasonSobel]

thanks for the responses everyone.  especially confirming the extra data chunks in the Wave file headers - while its a bummer that Samplitude can't be configured to write "standard" .wav headers, it is good to know that I'm not alone on that.

[macdaddy]

see - i thought it could be configured to not have shntool issues, but i dont know how to do it...

[live2496]

thanks for the responses everyone.  especially confirming the extra data chunks in the Wave file headers - while its a bummer that Samplitude can't be configured to write "standard" .wav headers, it is good to know that I'm not alone on that.

I just checked and converting to flac and back strips the extraneous info out of there.

So if you went wav > flac > wav, then you could generate your MD5 sums from that. (If you don't mind the extra steps)
 

[macdaddy]

samplitude does some weird sh*t, even in vip mode, but i assume it is all header chunks and stuff unrelated to the music. when i dump from the cf card to the hd, i create a md5 of the wavs on the CF card, and check it against the ones on the harddrive. everything is fine. drag those files from the hd to the vip window, and the md5s no longer check out...

great tip re: the flac tip. +T wav>flac>wav>md5 - that's easy enough: make the flacs, then just decode to wavs once more just to make the md5s  (which is an extra, non-essential step, anyway). fwiw - i make wav md5's, too, even though the shtool hash kind of replaces the need for md5's i like being able to one-click check before burning a CD (and with shntool you gotta use the command prompt).

[JasonSobel]

I just checked and converting to flac and back strips the extraneous info out of there.

So if you went wav > flac > wav, then you could generate your MD5 sums from that. (If you don't mind the extra steps)

I've tested and checked that too.  and I think I prefer the extra SHNtool step to strip the headers rather than the extra step to decode back to .wav.  It is probably a bit irrational, but I think that the "encode to FLAC" step should do nothing other than encode to FLAC.  I realize that its possible to fix any SBE's with that step (if neccesary), and FLAC also strips the header.  But for whatever reason, I just like to know that a .wav files decoded from FLAC will be *identical* to the input file.  But that's just me, and in the end, its an extra step either way.

Other than this small issue, I'm beginning to really like Samplitude.  While there's still a ways to go, I'm getting the hang of the basics.

[live2496]

...but i assume it is all header chunks and stuff unrelated to the music.

The stuff is metadata. Info about the recording. Date/time, original sampling rate, # of bits, etc. Flac supports such stuff also, but they strip it out when converting back to the original format.

It is doubtful that the programmers consider it a nuisance. Rather it helps provide details for broadcast wave format. This is written as a chunk at the end also.

I disagree with their implementation. While Samplitude owns the file they can do whatever they want to it. But when they export the file, I think it needs to be just a straight RIFF header and a data chunk.

Edit: I posted a wish list request on the Samp forum. We'll see if anything comes of it. It doesn't hurt to ask.

[live2496]

Another thing I asked for on the Samp forum is the ability for Samp to export to FLAC and to do MD5 checksums.

Actually could someone clarify something for me? I thought the MD5 sums were done on the FLAC's.

Jason you are running MD5's on the originals. I am confused a bit on this now. What are the standards for trading?

[Gutbucket]

thread marker.

[macdaddy]

What are the standards for trading?

the way it used to be - you would have shn md5s and wav md5s, and they would be different. but with flac, and the shntool hash, the ffp and the shntool hash are the same - so it kind of allevieates the need for a wav md5. the reason for the wav md5 is so when you go shn > wav, you can run a check, know the conversion went ok, and then burn to cd...

hth

[RebelRebel]

I just checked and converting to flac and back strips the extraneous info out of there.

So if you went wav > flac > wav, then you could generate your MD5 sums from that. (If you don't mind the extra steps)

I've tested and checked that too.  and I think I prefer the extra SHNtool step to strip the headers rather than the extra step to decode back to .wav.  It is probably a bit irrational, but I think that the "encode to FLAC" step should do nothing other than encode to FLAC.  I realize that its possible to fix any SBE's with that step (if neccesary), and FLAC also strips the header.  But for whatever reason, I just like to know that a .wav files decoded from FLAC will be *identical* to the input file.  But that's just me, and in the end, its an extra step either way.

Other than this small issue, I'm beginning to really like Samplitude.  While there's still a ways to go, I'm getting the hang of the basics.

Best software I have ever used. I just got my v10 update from orange hill audio and cant believe I ever used anything else.. Does it all. Good on you for joining the pool of users.

[Gutbucket]

Best software I have ever used. I just got my v10 update from orange hill audio and cant believe I ever used anything else.. Does it all. Good on you for joining the pool of users.

For a while now I've been thinking about jumping in with the $300 Sam mastering edition.  Anyone using have any words of experience using this version vs. SE or the full version?  Includes some things that I think would be useful over SE, with a track count limitation which shouldn't be an issue for stereo work.

[RebelRebel]

the master version should cover all the bases..and actually has something that the other versions do not in the *very* nice restoration suite. I can assure you that you will not be disappointed. I had the master version of v8 before jumping to v9 pro and was very pleased. I think all the great pow-r dither schemes come with it too.

[Gutbucket]

According to the version comparison chart on the Magix site, the Master edition doesn't include the pow-r dithering, but does include higher quality sample rate conversion (UTR Ultra Transparent Resampling) and other seemingly useful upgraded tools.  The addition of the restoration suite is one of the primary things that pushed me towards this version.  I think I'll go ahead and order it. 

Thanks for the input Teddy, your opinion carries weight with me.

[live2496]

According to the version comparison chart on the Magix site, the Master edition doesn't include the pow-r dithering, but does include higher quality sample rate conversion (UTR Ultra Transparent Resampling) and other seemingly useful upgraded tools.  The addition of the restoration suite is one of the primary things that pushed me towards this version.  I think I'll go ahead and order it. 

Thanks for the input Teddy, your opinion carries weight with me.

The master version gives you the ability to burn CD's and DVD's right from within samplitude. I don't think the SE version allows you to do that but it handles more tracks.

I have used V7/V8 pro and what sets that apart (I think) is the realtime reverb/room simulation.
I don't use their resampling unless I need it realtime. Normally I use R8brain. But the software is just packed full of features. It does it all. More than I need, really.

You don't need to manage SBE's mentioned here. The software has always transparently handled that. (Red Roaster handled that way back when).

[RebelRebel]

According to the version comparison chart on the Magix site, the Master edition doesn't include the pow-r dithering, but does include higher quality sample rate conversion (UTR Ultra Transparent Resampling) and other seemingly useful upgraded tools.  The addition of the restoration suite is one of the primary things that pushed me towards this version.  I think I'll go ahead and order it. 

Thanks for the input Teddy, your opinion carries weight with me.

Glad to help. If you have any questions after you purchase it, just let me know. (and be sure  to grab the vintage skins and the patches, runtimes, etc from the magix website, they update regularly)

[momule]

I figured out the fade in/out without too much difficulty this morning.

After being a long time user of wavelab I have made the switch to samplitude mainly because wavelab was buggy as hell running Vista 64bit. I have used with Sequoia for some of the multi track stuff so it was a pretty easy switch and I have figured out everything I need to do but fades.  Whats the trick to adding fades (both in and out)

Thanks in advance for any help.
Nick

[live2496]

In each object there are some handles for fades. They are little squares. It is along the leftmost and rightmost edges of the object about 1/2 way down. If you hold down the mouse on that handle and drag it, it will fade the audio. This is a linear fade only.

If you want a logarithmic fade the object editor has a dialog specifically for fades.

Gordon

[momule]

looks like a spoke too soon.  Am i missing it? 

[Brian Skalinder]

I think you're working in plain old WAV Editor mode.  Try working in a Virtual Project, it's much more powerful.

[JasonSobel]

I also recommend working with virtual projects.  however, in WAV editor mode, you can add fades with the following steps:

1) highlight the region you want to fade in or out.
2) Offline Effects | Amplitude/Normalize | Fade In/Out

and then choose what kind of fade in the dialog box that pops up.

[momule]

Thanks Guys

[audBall]

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