Topic: DPA 4022 and Sonic Devices Mix pre

[phil_er_up]

I have a pair of DPA 4022 and I am looking for a pre-amp to connect to an edirol09hr. Someone lent me their Sonic Device Mix pre to see if it would work with the above rig.

I used the DPA 4022 -> SD MIx pre -> edirol this weekend at 2 shows. I had a problem where the Pre-amp was overloading and the Limiter LED would come on all the time. I had the gain on the pre set to under "0 DB"  on the output level meter. If I turned down the gain even to .1 it would overload the pre and turn on the Limiter LED.

I am still trying to learn how all these components work together and it seems to me the DPA are sending to hot of a signal to the Preamp. THere is no switch on the pre to cut the input level by "15 or 20" DB.

Am I doing something wrong with my rig or do I need some type of 15 or 20 DB barrel adapter?
WHere would I purchase one of these?

Do you guys think the SD mix pre is not for the DPA mics and I should look at different alternatives.

Any comments would be appreciated.

[scb]

1. turn off the limiter
2. turn the gain up on the edirol and down on the mix pre. 

[su6oxone]

edit: I see your question was more about the mixpre overloading rather than the sound of them together.  In my experience, I've found that the MixPre needs have the gain turned way down (never above 8 o'clock) for most rock shows because it overloads otherwise.

[phil_er_up]

set up:
DPA XLR into mixpre xlr inputs

mixpre setting
Turned limiter on
48 phantom power turned on
linked turned on

Gain setting lets say the gain goes from 1 to 10. 10 being the strongest signal.
I was running the left and right gain at about 2 and it overloaded the pre.
I turned down the gain to .1 and it still overloaded the mixpre with the yellow light coming on about 3-4 times per minute. So it seems the DPA overdrive the mix pre at loud level.

The first show I recorded was a very loud reggae show with DB range way over a 100 by my estimation.
So then I went to a jazz show and everytime the guitarist hit a heavy note or the drummer hit a loud note the limiter would come on. Again the gain setting on th mix pre were only 2 out of 10. Then again I turned it down to .1 out of then and it would still overload the pre.'' THis show was not that loud, meaning way under 120 DB.

I tried two different combinations for the output:
One was the edirol hooked up to the 1/8 tape out and then used XLR outs with different cables. Still the same problem.

I opened the wav files in wavlab and both are straighlined. They are both maxed out except for the softer jazz songs which sound great by the way. So I don't think it is the DPA used mics I just bought.

[phil_er_up]

The 4022 sensitivity is listed as -42dBV/Pa and MixPre maximum input is spec'ed as -10dBu (-12dBV).  Therefore the 4022 will clip the MixPre with a 124dBSPL input, which is possible at a loud show.  Since the MixPre has a 66dB gain range I would guess the first notch is ~6dB, that would lower input headroom with the 4022s to 118dBSPL.

So long as you're OK with the gain all the way down, you wouldn't need an external pad.

Thanks mshilarious for your excellent answer. Appreciate it.

So any show over 118 db will clip the pre. The reggae show was loud and probably hit the 118 DB SPL range, not sure if the jazz show was that loud but maybe I had the gain up to high. The mix pre will not work for me.

[scb]

The yellow light doesn't mean anything is overloading.  The yellow light on the Peak/Limiter LED just means the limiter is active.  That LED will turn red at 3db below clipping. That's when it's close to overloading


I still say the limiter is doing things you don't want it to.  There's a limiter threshold on the side.  Try adjusting that.  I think your unit is set up to have the limiter kick in a lot sooner than you'd like.

(I would say you don't ever want to use the limiter in the first place...it can sound very harsh on these units)

[phil_er_up]

The yellow light doesn't mean anything is overloading.  The yellow light on the Peak/Limiter LED just means the limiter is active.  That LED will turn red at 3db below clipping. That's when it's close to overloading


I still say the limiter is doing things you don't want it to.  There's a limiter threshold on the side.  Try adjusting that.  I think your unit is set up to have the limiter kick in a lot sooner than you'd like.

(I would say you don't ever want to use the limiter in the first place...it can sound very harsh on these units)

Thanks to all for there replies. Appreciate it.

Looks like I have some things to learn and thanks for you guys educating me.

I will not use the limiter and give it another go and see how it does. I might play with the screw adj for the limiter and see what I come up with. THanks

[phil_er_up]

A few points on SPL:

- 100dBSPL isn't loud at all for a concert.  A crowd cheering will be that loud or louder, depending on the venue (arenas are usually the worst).

- If you have an SPL meter you can take along, set it to C-weighted.  This is because A-weighting pretty much ignores low frequencies.  But the 4022 is rather flat response in the lows, so a 120dB bass note is the same as a 120dB A-weighted response as far as it's concerned.  So it's not surprising that it was the lows engaging the limiter, because that is normally the loudest part of the spectrum, especially at a reggae show!

- Your ears are mostly concerned with A-weighting, in terms of perceived volume and hearing damage.  So you wouldn't have thought the jazz show was loud, even if the kick was hitting really hard.

Hi MSH,

First off thanks for the response.

Yes I do have a SPL meter. I thought the reggae show was over a 120 DB and I was not sure and did not want to mislead you guys. The fox has 8 subwoofers and the bass is heavy so it could be over 120 by quite a bit. I will bring one and see what the DB SPL is in the room I am recording. Easy enough to pull it out and take a reading. Thanks for the idea.

Thanks again.

-p