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Gear / Technical Help => Playback Forum => Home Theatre & HDTV => Topic started by: spreadheadtom on January 08, 2008, 12:41:00 PM

Title: The death of HD DVD?
Post by: spreadheadtom on January 08, 2008, 12:41:00 PM
I'm sitting on a $400.00 HD DVD player right now.....I'm gonna try and sneak it back to Best Buy.  I'll tell them that I got it for xmas  ::)

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/media/article3153038.ece

From Times OnlineJanuary 8, 2008

Blu-Ray takes inside edge in war with HD-DVD
Up to 20 firms backing HD-DVD consider defection after Warner opted for Blu-Ray and Paramount is poised to followLeo Lewis, Asia Business Correspondent
The sprawling consortium of technology and media companies assembled to promote the HD-DVD format of next-generation high definition discs faces a spate of defections to the rival Blu-Ray Disc consortium.

As many as 20 companies currently part of the HD-DVD Promotion Group could be preparing to remove their names from the alliance’s 130-strong membership list, The Times has learned.

Paramount yesterday emerged as the latest major Hollywood studio poised to switch allegiances.

Despite the huge armies of technology companies ranged against each other in the format showdown, Paramount has turned out to be a pivotal figure. Its decision in August to give exclusive backing to HD-DVD was seen as a potentially devastating blow to the prospects of Blu-Ray, and to the strategy of Sony’s president, Sir Howard Stringer.

Related Links
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Sir Howard consistently argued, though, that the Playstation3 games console, which includes a Blu-Ray disc player, would put the format in people’s living rooms around the world more quickly than HD-DVD players would be adopted by consumers. But Paramount, like other members of the HD-DVD group such as Fujitsu, Lenovo and Kenwood, has hedged its bets. It offered exclusivity in August on the basis that it could reverse the decision should Warner Bros switch to Blu-Ray.

The threatened exodus from the HD-DVD format follows last week’s decision by Warner Bros to back the rival Blu-Ray Disc format, whose main technology backers include Sony, Apple and Dell.

One Tokyo-based analyst said that the defections could represent the final nails in the coffin of Toshiba’s HD-DVD standard after a bitterly-fought “format war” that has run for a little over one year.

Eiichi Katayama, of Nomura Securities, said that the battle between the formats, which display films and video games more sharply in an era of ever-growing television screen sizes, was now “entering its final phase”.

Pony Canyon, a major Japanese music, animation and film studio and part of the giant Fuji Television media empire, said that although it was currently part of the HD-DVD Promotion Group, the decisions of US studios meant it would “choose Blu-Ray in the end”.

Several other Japanese firms – including content producers and electronics component makers – said that their support of HD DVD was “under review” and that they knew of many others in the same position. Others, who admitted that they had previously been waiting for “clear market momentum”, said that it had now probably arrived.

Backers of HD-DVD point to the relative ease of producing the discs, and the lower cost of building machines capable of reading them. Unlike previous format wars, particularly the notorious Betamax v VHS skirmish in the 1980s, the war between Blu-Ray and HD-DVD has effectively been decided in boardrooms, rather than electronics showrooms. The decisions of the major studios have come well before those of customers, who have generally held back from picking one format for fear of backing a loser.

Facing a future with only Universal Pictures as its major Hollywood supporter, Toshiba and HD-DVD, said analysts at the Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vegas, could quickly find itself isolated. But HD-DVD does retain a few potential trump-cards, most notably Microsoft. It is the presence of Microsoft on HD-DVD’s list of supporters, say many of the promotion group, that preserves hope that the format could yet prevail.

Title: Re: The death of HD DVD?
Post by: John Kelly on January 08, 2008, 12:46:22 PM
I wouldn't necessarily go into "return mode" just yet, but this is seriously bad news for HD DVD and its supporters (of which I was one).  The worst part about all of this was that Warner was in talks to go HD DVD exclusive along with Fox.  But Fox was paid a hefty sum by Sony and backed out of the deal, and Warner would not go without Fox forcing them to go to Blu as well. 

To be fair, HD DVD still has the two largest movie studios exclusive to their side (Universal and Paramount), but many people don't feel like that will be enough.  We'll see - it's all about what Toshiba and Universal do over the next few months. 

I won't be buying discs in either format anytime soon, though.  The entire thing has left me pretty jaded on the industry as a whole.  They should have figured all of this out *before* anything got into consumer hands.
Title: Re: The death of HD DVD?
Post by: gewwang on January 08, 2008, 12:48:27 PM
I still haven't even gotten the 5 free ones that came with my player back in October.
Title: Re: The death of HD DVD?
Post by: Tim on January 08, 2008, 12:50:51 PM
I won't be buying discs in either format anytime soon, though.  The entire thing has left me pretty jaded on the industry as a whole.  They should have figured all of this out *before* anything got into consumer hands.

I don't disagree with you at all there but why did you think this instance would be handled any better than Beta/VHS? You could see this coming a mile away

edit: not trying to single you out, I just thought that it was pretty obvious that early adopters of either media were running a big risk of being left with expensive equipment and a stash of movies that were incompatible with the new standard.
Title: Re: The death of HD DVD?
Post by: spreadheadtom on January 08, 2008, 01:00:04 PM
I'm searching the internets now, but I know I read TODAY that Paramount is backing out.


here it is....sent to me in an e-mail.

Paramount following Warner out the HD DVD door?
Posted Jan 7th 2008 10:29PM by Richard Lawler
Filed under: Blu-ray, HD DVD

The Financial Times is reporting that Paramount is preparing to use a get out clause in its HD DVD exclusivity deal, and go back to Blu-ray, about 4 months after ending its dual-format release schedule. The move would be a result of Warner's switch to Blu-ray, using a "get out" clause in Paramount's promotional agreement with the HD DVD camp. No details on what it might take to rip up the contract and make Michael Bay very, very happy, but if the rumor proves true this could make the slow death he predicted for HD DVD a very, very fast one.
Title: Re: The death of HD DVD?
Post by: macdaddy on January 08, 2008, 01:06:05 PM
yup. saw it from a mile away...

word is that paramount is only hd-dvd exclusive for another bit of time, then they, too, will go blu. hell, sony is selling toshiba some plants to make chips - i would not be surprised if the hd-dvd phaseout was a part of that deal...

funny thing is, m$ wants both sides to lose, so that they can (hopefully, by then) own the downloadable content arena (i really hope that scenario doesnt come true, but i know that is the redmond, wa strategy).

with any luck, blu is here to stay. the format is superior (more storage space, which should equal better encodes - the only reason they are the same now is that studios only want to transfer once, so they do the lowest common denominator, and hddvd is the weak format here, 'cos it doesnt have the space). the new standard, already updated for the ps3, allows the pip stuff, and blu-ray live will be forthcoming very soon, which is a much richer feature set than what hd-dvd has to offer...

no real reason to wait, just go blu, or you will likely regret it...
Title: Re: The death of HD DVD?
Post by: John Kelly on January 08, 2008, 01:13:25 PM
yup. saw it from a mile away...

word is that paramount is only hd-dvd exclusive for another bit of time, then they, too, will go blu. hell, sony is selling toshiba some plants to make chips - i would not be surprised if the hd-dvd phaseout was a part of that deal...

funny thing is, m$ wants both sides to lose, so that they can (hopefully, by then) own the downloadable content arena (i really hope that scenario doesnt come true, but i know that is the redmond, wa strategy).

with any luck, blu is here to stay. the format is superior (more storage space, which should equal better encodes - the only reason they are the same now is that studios only want to transfer once, so they do the lowest common denominator, and hddvd is the weak format here, 'cos it doesnt have the space). the new standard, already updated for the ps3, allows the pip stuff, and blu-ray live will be forthcoming very soon, which is a much richer feature set than what hd-dvd has to offer...

no real reason to wait, just go blu, or you will likely regret it...

Actually Blu-ray Live will finally bring Blu-Ray to the *original* feature set of HD DVD.  HD DVD was superior in absolutely every category except for storage space, which was just overcome with the HD DVD-ROM 51.  It had much less intrusive DRM, supported managed copy (being able to rip your discs to a PC for playback/archival), an easier programming language (ask anyone who works with it if they like BD-J and they'll just laugh at you), and had advanced online features that Blu-ray still doesn't support. 

And the worst part about it is if you own a Blu-ray player now it is not possible to update it to the final standard.  You will have to buy a new player.


But I'm not bitter. ;)
Title: Re: The death of HD DVD?
Post by: spreadheadtom on January 08, 2008, 01:17:05 PM
yup. saw it from a mile away...

word is that paramount is only hd-dvd exclusive for another bit of time, then they, too, will go blu. hell, sony is selling toshiba some plants to make chips - i would not be surprised if the hd-dvd phaseout was a part of that deal...

funny thing is, m$ wants both sides to lose, so that they can (hopefully, by then) own the downloadable content arena (i really hope that scenario doesnt come true, but i know that is the redmond, wa strategy).

with any luck, blu is here to stay. the format is superior (more storage space, which should equal better encodes - the only reason they are the same now is that studios only want to transfer once, so they do the lowest common denominator, and hddvd is the weak format here, 'cos it doesnt have the space). the new standard, already updated for the ps3, allows the pip stuff, and blu-ray live will be forthcoming very soon, which is a much richer feature set than what hd-dvd has to offer...

no real reason to wait, just go blu, or you will likely regret it...

Actually Blu-ray Live will finally bring Blu-Ray to the *original* feature set of HD DVD.  HD DVD was superior in absolutely every category except for storage space, which was just overcome with the HD DVD-ROM 51.  It had much less intrusive DRM, supported managed copy (being able to rip your discs to a PC for playback/archival), an easier programming language (ask anyone who works with it if they like BD-J and they'll just laugh at you), and had advanced online features that Blu-ray still doesn't support. 

And the worst part about it is if you own a Blu-ray player now it is not possible to update it to the final standard.  You will have to buy a new player.


But I'm not bitter. ;)

so I guess the smart thing to do would be buy a PS3...isn't it updateable through firmware?

edit: +T to the thread
Title: Re: The death of HD DVD?
Post by: macdaddy on January 08, 2008, 01:24:27 PM
yup.

a ps3 gets all the updates, and it is easy. it's like it is future-proof (esp. when blu-ray wins the war)

oh, and a ps3 is as cheap of a bluray player that you will find... people dont get that about the ps3 yet - it is as much of a media center as it is a game machine: stream audio, video, sacd player, hdmi out, optical out, etc... and there are some pretty good games (high velocity bowling kicks the wii bowling's a$$ ;) ) and you cant beat unreal tournament, online, in hd, with wireless keyboard and mouse support. alot of folks like that uncharted game, too, but i dont like single player affairs. ymmv.

oh, and capacity is a big issue, 'cos you can have better video encodes, and lossless audio, etc. in fact, the thing that would affect the video encodes the most up to now were the studios that do both formats chinsing on the video bitrate so it would fit on hd-dvd. blu-ray has the capacity for even better encodes than what we have been seeing. now that we dont have to worry about shaving the bitrate for hd-dvd, we can look forward to superior transfers of the matrix trilogy, and of course the lotr extended editions...

it is a great time to be into high-def right now, just make sure you go blu!

Title: Re: The death of HD DVD?
Post by: willndmb on January 08, 2008, 01:25:46 PM
i still think in the end EVERY player will be dual format
just like -r and +r dvds

but it seems to me that bluray is more popular then hd simply based on the players you see
you can goto any store and they will have the toshiba hd player while they have 5 bluray players right next to it
Title: Re: The death of HD DVD?
Post by: Belexes on January 08, 2008, 01:27:48 PM
Hmmmmm....I have 5 free HD discs on the way and 2 that came in the box. Perhaps I will hold off on going out and buying a bunch of HD discs until this thing finally settles.  May just give me a great reason to get a PS3 and junk my PS2.
Title: Re: The death of HD DVD?
Post by: spreadheadtom on January 08, 2008, 01:31:20 PM
Hmmmmm....I have 5 free HD discs on the way and 2 that came in the box. Perhaps I will hold off on going out and buying a bunch of HD discs until this thing finally settles.  May just give me a great reason to get a PS3 and junk my PS2.

luckily I never mailed off for my free movies so I never cut the UPC off the box.  It's going back in hopes of an exchange for a PS3.
Title: Re: The death of HD DVD?
Post by: John Kelly on January 08, 2008, 01:43:28 PM
yup. saw it from a mile away...

word is that paramount is only hd-dvd exclusive for another bit of time, then they, too, will go blu. hell, sony is selling toshiba some plants to make chips - i would not be surprised if the hd-dvd phaseout was a part of that deal...

funny thing is, m$ wants both sides to lose, so that they can (hopefully, by then) own the downloadable content arena (i really hope that scenario doesnt come true, but i know that is the redmond, wa strategy).

with any luck, blu is here to stay. the format is superior (more storage space, which should equal better encodes - the only reason they are the same now is that studios only want to transfer once, so they do the lowest common denominator, and hddvd is the weak format here, 'cos it doesnt have the space). the new standard, already updated for the ps3, allows the pip stuff, and blu-ray live will be forthcoming very soon, which is a much richer feature set than what hd-dvd has to offer...

no real reason to wait, just go blu, or you will likely regret it...

Actually Blu-ray Live will finally bring Blu-Ray to the *original* feature set of HD DVD.  HD DVD was superior in absolutely every category except for storage space, which was just overcome with the HD DVD-ROM 51.  It had much less intrusive DRM, supported managed copy (being able to rip your discs to a PC for playback/archival), an easier programming language (ask anyone who works with it if they like BD-J and they'll just laugh at you), and had advanced online features that Blu-ray still doesn't support. 

And the worst part about it is if you own a Blu-ray player now it is not possible to update it to the final standard.  You will have to buy a new player.


But I'm not bitter. ;)

so I guess the smart thing to do would be buy a PS3...isn't it updateable through firmware?

edit: +T to the thread

The PS3 is the only player that has the possibility to update to the 2.0 profile, but it hasn't been confirmed that it will.  Other players would require hardware upgrades, not just a firmware update, which is why they'll never be able to reach the 2.0 profile.
Title: Re: The death of HD DVD?
Post by: macdaddy on January 08, 2008, 02:18:36 PM
Quote from: john kelly
The PS3 is the only player that has the possibility to update to the 2.0 profile, but it hasn't been confirmed that it will.
actually, it was confirmed yesterday @ ces ;)

that, and the fact that it will auto-rip brdvd to psp.




Title: Re: The death of HD DVD?
Post by: George on January 08, 2008, 02:24:47 PM
Hence the reason why I never believe in being an early adopter of any new technology until its "finalized" for the masses.  I'll continue to sit this one out until Blu-ray is clearly the victor and goodfellas comes out on it (if it isnt already).
Title: Re: The death of HD DVD?
Post by: kered38 on January 08, 2008, 02:26:57 PM
and goodfellas comes out on it (if it isnt already).

Out for both and only $14.99 at Best Buy this week.
Title: Re: The death of HD DVD?
Post by: John Kelly on January 08, 2008, 02:45:34 PM
Quote from: john kelly
The PS3 is the only player that has the possibility to update to the 2.0 profile, but it hasn't been confirmed that it will.
actually, it was confirmed yesterday @ ces ;)

that, and the fact that it will auto-rip brdvd to psp.

Care to link to that first fact?  Because none of the HD or video game websites I know of have anything about it.

The second thing is very cool, and would be even better if it also allowed iPod ripping a la the new Fox DVDs (which have pre-ripped iTunes files on the disc).
Title: Re: The death of HD DVD?
Post by: Belexes on January 08, 2008, 02:51:47 PM
Who wants to buy my Betamax?  ;D

At least I didn't spend an arm/leg on the HD Player. The A3 was on sale for $199 and I had gift cards to get the thing down under $100 and with the 7 movies, I think I came out ahead.

The thing I have seen when watching the ads is that the Sony players are now down to the 40 gig PS3 price of $399.  I don't see them going any lower unless Sony does a price drop on the PS3.
Title: Re: The death of HD DVD?
Post by: macdaddy on January 08, 2008, 03:02:19 PM
it is :D (i actually watched it again just the other night, too)

i just want this to end, so things small houses, like criterion, can start doing their catalog up in hd, with all the acoutremans(sic) that the blu standard has...

hopefully these things will be happening towards the end of the year, when blu players are gonna be cheap for the holiday season, and those will all be 2.0 compliant...

the only reason i am an early adopter is 'cos i went the ps3 route, which i knew was gonna be upgradeable via firmware, and thus, relatively future-proof. the games have been a long-time coming, but this year they will blow up. i am impressed with the fledgling psn - downloadable, cheap, high-quality games have been put up, and they are sweet (i already touted the bowling). i dont do the rock band/guitar hero thing, but there are updates/new tunes for that thing each week. it is all set-up for the download of full-length movies, if that ever becomes a reality, and since i have watched plenty of the 1080p trailers from the psn, i would have no problems downloading a full-length feature for viewing, provided the price was right, 'cos the quality is all there. the machine also replaces the squeezebox as a music streamer, and can play my stones sacds, and outputs them via analog!! the thing that has been the best surprise is that the firmware updates have been focusing on movie playback: the blu-ray updates (though that isnt just sony's gig), sd dvd upscaling, 24hz support, full rgb, super white hdmi, etc. - all of these things added by sony to make the unit a dream mulitmedia unit to have.

just watch out when buying them, 'cos not all of them have the same features. they all will play blu-ray, and connect via hdmi and output 1080p, and games ,a nd music, but some wont have memory card slots (just usb), and some wont have wi-fi, some wont play ps2 titles.

 
Title: Re: The death of HD DVD?
Post by: macdaddy on January 08, 2008, 03:06:45 PM
Quote from: john kelly
The PS3 is the only player that has the possibility to update to the 2.0 profile, but it hasn't been confirmed that it will.
actually, it was confirmed yesterday @ ces ;)

that, and the fact that it will auto-rip brdvd to psp.

Care to link to that first fact?
 Because none of the HD or video game websites I know of have anything about it.

of course (i knew you were gonna ask ;) )

no release date as of yet (for the firmware)

link (http://blogs.pcworld.com/staffblog/archives/006194.html)

link (http://www.qj.net/CES-2008-future-PS3-BD-Live-update-Profile-2-0-players-Sapphire-3-4/pg/49/aid/111142)


Quote
The second thing is very cool

link (http://blogs.pcworld.com/staffblog/archives/006194.html)

link (http://ps3.qj.net/CES-2008-Sony-touts-BD-Live-Blu-ray-transfers-from-PS3-to-PSP/pg/49/aid/111191)
Title: Re: The death of HD DVD?
Post by: OFOTD on January 08, 2008, 03:18:58 PM
So let's talk Blu-Ray media.   Most of the usual CD media sites I visit do not seem to have much real world with recordable Blu Ray media.  Anyone have any good links?  Specs?  Tests?

Title: Re: The death of HD DVD?
Post by: spreadheadtom on January 08, 2008, 03:20:05 PM
The 40gb PS3 will NOT play PS2 games...only the 80GB will.


the reason I know this......I just took my HD DVD player and exchanged for the 40GB PS3.


edit:  now do I hold on to these HD DVD movies I have and pick up a dual format player when they get cheap(er)...or just sell them off.  I have about 10 movies.
Title: Re: The death of HD DVD?
Post by: macdaddy on January 08, 2008, 03:22:08 PM
The 40gb PS3 will NOT play PS2 games...only the 80GB will.


the reason I know this......I just took my HD DVD player and exchanged for the 40GB PS3.


edit:  now do I hold on to these HD DVD movies I have and pick up a dual format player when they get cheap(er)...or just sell them off.  I have about 10 movies.

i have the 60 gig one, and it plays ps2 games, but i have never tried...

congrats on your new purchase.

+T
Title: Re: The death of HD DVD?
Post by: Javier Cinakowski on January 08, 2008, 03:23:50 PM
the 40GB does not play sacd's or ps2 games either...   all of the ps3's play ps1 games... 
Title: Re: The death of HD DVD?
Post by: willndmb on January 08, 2008, 03:26:12 PM
this stuff just poped up on yahoo http://tech.yahoo.com/blogs/patterson/11038
http://tech.yahoo.com/blogs/null/64393 death of hd??
http://tech.yahoo.com/ces
Title: Re: The death of HD DVD?
Post by: macdaddy on January 08, 2008, 03:31:45 PM
Quote
How many "death blows" will it take for Blu-ray to finally win the format war against HD DVD? I've been hearing that phrase (and writing about it) since July 2007. Well here comes another one. Following in the footsteps of Warner Brothers' abandonment of the HD DVD format, reports are surfacing that Paramount is headed to Blu-ray as well.

This is huge news not just because it would leave just one major studio (Universal, plus the mini-major DreamWorks) producing HD DVD content. It would mark the first time in the high-def war that a studio has abandoned one exclusive format and switched to another. Warner was producing both HD DVD and Blu-ray discs and merely dropped the HD DVD ones. Paramount will have to switch entirely to Blu-ray, which it has not been producing up to now.

According to the Financial Times, Paramount has a clause in its contract with the HD DVD camp allowing it to switch to Blu-ray in the event that Warner was to do so. And exercising that clause is what's about to happen. It's also theorized that DreamWorks will follow Paramount, since the studios are closely tied together.

Nothing's been announced yet, but this should be wrapped up in fairly short order. Stay tuned.

ouch.
Title: Re: The death of HD DVD?
Post by: John Kelly on January 08, 2008, 03:43:28 PM
Quote
How many "death blows" will it take for Blu-ray to finally win the format war against HD DVD? I've been hearing that phrase (and writing about it) since July 2007. Well here comes another one. Following in the footsteps of Warner Brothers' abandonment of the HD DVD format, reports are surfacing that Paramount is headed to Blu-ray as well.

This is huge news not just because it would leave just one major studio (Universal, plus the mini-major DreamWorks) producing HD DVD content. It would mark the first time in the high-def war that a studio has abandoned one exclusive format and switched to another. Warner was producing both HD DVD and Blu-ray discs and merely dropped the HD DVD ones. Paramount will have to switch entirely to Blu-ray, which it has not been producing up to now.

According to the Financial Times, Paramount has a clause in its contract with the HD DVD camp allowing it to switch to Blu-ray in the event that Warner was to do so. And exercising that clause is what's about to happen. It's also theorized that DreamWorks will follow Paramount, since the studios are closely tied together.

Nothing's been announced yet, but this should be wrapped up in fairly short order. Stay tuned.

ouch.

Paramount has already said that is false and that they will be supporting HD DVD (I'm guessing that will be their story until their contract is up).
Title: Re: The death of HD DVD?
Post by: John Kelly on January 08, 2008, 03:49:25 PM
Here's the truth about all this:
Seagate CEO: Blu-ray won the battle but lost the war (http://ces.cnet.com/8301-13855_1-9845372-67.html?part=rss&subj=news&tag=2547-1_3-0-5)
Title: Re: The death of HD DVD?
Post by: macdaddy on January 08, 2008, 04:01:49 PM
that's what i said above (re: m$), but i think it is a long way off. the masses have to have broadband for that to work, and they dont yet. and i am not sure if dsl can even handle what they are talking about...

Title: Re: The death of HD DVD?
Post by: John Kelly on January 08, 2008, 04:08:45 PM
that's what i said above (re: m$), but i think it is a long way off. the masses have to have broadband for that to work, and they dont yet. and i am not sure if dsl can even handle what they are talking about...

You'd be surprised - over 60% of homes in the US now connect to the internet via broadband.  I think it's a lot closer than people think.
Title: Re: The death of HD DVD?
Post by: OFOTD on January 08, 2008, 04:17:32 PM
that's what i said above (re: m$), but i think it is a long way off. the masses have to have broadband for that to work, and they dont yet. and i am not sure if dsl can even handle what they are talking about...

You'd be surprised - over 60% of homes in the US now connect to the internet via broadband.  I think it's a lot closer than people think.

True but when the majority of those are using some form of DSL therein lies the problem.  People have access to high speed but what is high speed nowadays.  160KB down isn't going to get it done and i'd be shocked if the average person was willing to wait for days to get a single HD movie.   

To put the article/interview in perspective to this site.  How many of you are willing to have an offsite backup of your masters on a flash drive instead of a physical piece of media?   

Personally i'm happy that one of the two camps has finally had its back broken.  Didn't really care which one as long as there was one.   Now hopefully we have a format that will last 10 years before the newest format/idea comes to fruition. 
Title: Re: The death of HD DVD?
Post by: Belexes on January 08, 2008, 04:29:23 PM
The 40gb PS3 will NOT play PS2 games...only the 80GB will.


the reason I know this......I just took my HD DVD player and exchanged for the 40GB PS3.


edit:  now do I hold on to these HD DVD movies I have and pick up a dual format player when they get cheap(er)...or just sell them off.  I have about 10 movies.

i have the 60 gig one, and it plays ps2 games, but i have never tried...

congrats on your new purchase.

+T

Well that's extortion, but the price difference between the 40 gig and the 80 gig is just $100, so I guess that's not all that bad.  Looks like the 60 gig was discontinued. I figure if I jump to Blu-Ray I might as well get a compatible game console to boot.  Then I can join Team Rock Band. (no Rock Band for the PS2)
Title: Re: The death of HD DVD?
Post by: John Kelly on January 08, 2008, 06:59:10 PM
I actually really like the thinking of the Samsung Executive VP:

Quote from: http://gizmodo.com/341906/interview-samsung-says-theres-life-after-hollywood-for-hd-dvd
We scored a sitdown with DongSoo Jun, Executive VP and General Manager of Samsung's Digital AV Division. Translation: He's Samsung's main man on Blu-ray and HD DVD. We asked him the big question: "Is HD DVD dead ?" His answer might surprise you.

On the Hollywood front, he believes that the Warner announcement was a tipping point. In short, Blu-ray will win. But! HD DVD doesn't have to slink into a grave next to Betamax yet. It will become the chosen format for "private" (that is, personal) content because the format—ahem, Toshiba and Microsoft—has a stronghold in the PC drive market. He expects Toshiba to really concentrate on the PC HD DVD market since it's deader than disco if it loses there.

The format war ends. The "divide" begins. And it'll be even bigger, in a sense.

Upswing: Samsung's going to be keep pumping out dual-format players, so that people can easily watch the personal stuff and the Hollywood stuff on the same deck. "Most people...don't care about what format is most popular," says Jun.

He also thinks:
•: $299 is the magic price for Blu-ray players—watch around June/July
• 1,000 titles is the magic content number (Blu-ray is around 500 now)
• Digital distribution will kill standard-def physical media, not HD—people delete recorded SD content; they want to keep "high quality" content through Blu-ray

A lot of that makes sense, and since HD DVDs can be burned with burners people already have onto discs they already use, this is a lot more believable than most people probably think.
Title: Re: The death of HD DVD?
Post by: macdaddy on January 08, 2008, 07:14:04 PM
agreed.

but for commercial content, i believe the end is near for hd-dvd...

Title: Re: The death of HD DVD?
Post by: willndmb on January 08, 2008, 07:37:02 PM
Quote
How many "death blows" will it take for Blu-ray to finally win the format war against HD DVD? I've been hearing that phrase (and writing about it) since July 2007. Well here comes another one. Following in the footsteps of Warner Brothers' abandonment of the HD DVD format, reports are surfacing that Paramount is headed to Blu-ray as well.

This is huge news not just because it would leave just one major studio (Universal, plus the mini-major DreamWorks) producing HD DVD content. It would mark the first time in the high-def war that a studio has abandoned one exclusive format and switched to another. Warner was producing both HD DVD and Blu-ray discs and merely dropped the HD DVD ones. Paramount will have to switch entirely to Blu-ray, which it has not been producing up to now.

According to the Financial Times, Paramount has a clause in its contract with the HD DVD camp allowing it to switch to Blu-ray in the event that Warner was to do so. And exercising that clause is what's about to happen. It's also theorized that DreamWorks will follow Paramount, since the studios are closely tied together.

Nothing's been announced yet, but this should be wrapped up in fairly short order. Stay tuned.

ouch.

Paramount has already said that is false and that they will be supporting HD DVD (I'm guessing that will be their story until their contract is up).
http://tech.yahoo.com/blogs/null/64393
who knows for sure
Title: Re: The death of HD DVD?
Post by: John Kelly on January 08, 2008, 07:58:33 PM
Quote
How many "death blows" will it take for Blu-ray to finally win the format war against HD DVD? I've been hearing that phrase (and writing about it) since July 2007. Well here comes another one. Following in the footsteps of Warner Brothers' abandonment of the HD DVD format, reports are surfacing that Paramount is headed to Blu-ray as well.

This is huge news not just because it would leave just one major studio (Universal, plus the mini-major DreamWorks) producing HD DVD content. It would mark the first time in the high-def war that a studio has abandoned one exclusive format and switched to another. Warner was producing both HD DVD and Blu-ray discs and merely dropped the HD DVD ones. Paramount will have to switch entirely to Blu-ray, which it has not been producing up to now.

According to the Financial Times, Paramount has a clause in its contract with the HD DVD camp allowing it to switch to Blu-ray in the event that Warner was to do so. And exercising that clause is what's about to happen. It's also theorized that DreamWorks will follow Paramount, since the studios are closely tied together.

Nothing's been announced yet, but this should be wrapped up in fairly short order. Stay tuned.

ouch.

Paramount has already said that is false and that they will be supporting HD DVD (I'm guessing that will be their story until their contract is up).
http://tech.yahoo.com/blogs/null/64393
who knows for sure

I think Paramount does, when they came out and flat denied it.  Posting it again doesn't make it any more true. ;)
Paramount/DreamWorks: "Still Supporting HD DVD" [UPDATED] (http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/DreamWorks/Paramount/CES_2008/Paramount/DreamWorks:__Still_Supporting_HD_DVD_%5BUPDATED%5D/1345)
Title: Re: The death of HD DVD?
Post by: -sam on January 08, 2008, 10:25:20 PM
(no Rock Band for the PS2)
Untrue, it does exist, and shipped last month, just in a highly gimped form -- no downloadable content or online play I believe.

i was toying with getting an HD-DVD player because the price point is low(er) and there are quite a few movies I'd like to own in that format.  For now though waiting on cheaper, better dual-format players seems to remain the prudent choice.
Title: Re: The death of HD DVD?
Post by: macdaddy on January 09, 2008, 09:29:16 AM

re: that out clause that paramount has

i believe you, john (and i read your link), but in this morning's paper (latimes) that clause was specifically mentioned, and it was stated that the company is mulling over using it. the reason i bring this up, is that if there is one paper that essentially ALL company execs read daily, it is the la times (so i assume they have their facts straight)...

good to know they are optimistic about retailer support  ::) maybe the format is actually poised to go the way of the dodo...

Quote
HD DVD camp stands by format
template_bas
template_bas
Toshiba says backers haven't wavered despite Warner Bros.' choice of Blu-ray. But Paramount may be reconsidering.
By Dawn C. Chmielewski and Claudia Eller, Los Angeles Times Staff Writers
January 9, 2008
LAS VEGAS -- Had pundits bet on the HD DVD camp folding its hand in Las Vegas, they would have lost their shirts.

None of the corporate giants that back the next-generation DVD format have jumped ship at the Consumer Electronics Show here. But the huge momentum shift toward the Blu-ray format has at least one studio strongly considering a switch.
 
Warner Bros.' decision last week to start making movies exclusively for Blu-ray players, rather than HD DVD, triggered an "out" clause in Paramount Pictures' contract with the HD DVD camp. An industry source said there was a significant possibility that Paramount would exercise that clause. It plans to decide within a month.

Paramount officials said they would continue to support HD DVD, a format for displaying videos in higher quality whose backers include Toshiba Corp. and Microsoft Corp. Universal Pictures, which has been a strong supporter from the beginning, issued no public statement on the matter here.

Toshiba said Tuesday that retailers have expressed their commitment to HD DVD during private meetings at the show, which is the world's largest consumer tech gathering.

Still, the Warner Bros. move -- announced just before the show began -- dramatically changed the balance of power in the competition to set the new DVD standard.

The Blu-ray contingent, led by Sony Corp., all but claimed victory before a standing-room-only presentation Monday, saying: "The Future Is Blu."

The Blu-ray Disc Assn. claimed a significant edge over HD DVD, with 85% of all next-generation players purchased since Blu-ray hit the market late in 2006. The group also said 66% of all high-definition movies sold in 2007 were Blu-ray.

Danny Kaye, 20th Century Fox Home Entertainment's executive vice president of technology strategy, predicted that Blu-ray players -- including Sony PlayStation 3 game consoles, which also play movies in the format -- would jump from 3.5 million sold by the end of 2007 to 10 million by the end of this year. He forecast a similar surge in movie sales, from $170 million to $1 billion in consumer spending.

Kaye said 2008 would be "a year of very strong, explosive growth."

Steve Beeks, president of Blu-ray supporter Lions Gate, said that after two years of "wasted energy" devoted to the bruising format war, the industry could begin to focus its efforts on expanding the home entertainment market.

"We believe 2008 will be a watershed year for Blu-ray's ascent in the marketplace," Beeks said.

That enthusiasm appears to be shared by the show's attendees, who flocked to the numerous Blu-ray displays on the show floor. The numbers were noticeably thinner at similar HD DVD displays.

Jodi Sally, vice president of marketing for Toshiba America's digital audio video group, emphasized the continued retail support for its HD DVD format, which has sold more 1 million players since its introduction.

"I've been here for two days of back-to-back meetings with retailers," Sally said. "We are really encouraged by our meetings and the response of retailers that they will continue to offer consumers a choice."

Industry executives said it would be unusual for retailers to abandon any format so soon after Christmas, for fear of sparking a flood of returns
.
Title: Re: The death of HD DVD?
Post by: John Kelly on January 09, 2008, 11:29:27 AM

re: that out clause that paramount has

i believe you, john (and i read your link), but in this morning's paper (latimes) that clause was specifically mentioned, and it was stated that the company is mulling over using it. the reason i bring this up, is that if there is one paper that essentially ALL company execs read daily, it is the la times (so i assume they have their facts straight)...

good to know they are optimistic about retailer support  ::) maybe the format is actually poised to go the way of the dodo...

Yeah but they're talking about the same source that everyone else is - the Financial Times.  Unless someone can produce a copy of said contract showing that clause, I just find it way too hard to believe.  It is just an odd thing to put into a contract in the first place.  Having an "out" clause makes sense - but basing that out clause on a third party and their actions makes little sense (especially to the HD DVD forum side of the contract).

Plus, if that clause were in there I'd suspect we'd have seen Paramount at *least* go back to neutral already, or at least make an announcement that they were doing so.
Title: Re: The death of HD DVD?
Post by: macdaddy on January 09, 2008, 11:47:56 AM
i hear ya...

and nicke finke, who is normally QUITE trustworthy when it comes to the industry and the stuff she writes, says the "out clause" is b$, too...

link (http://www.deadlinehollywooddaily.com/blu-rayhd-dvd-war-almost-won-today/)
Title: Re: The death of HD DVD?
Post by: olyrc on January 09, 2008, 01:29:15 PM
I think this is still a wait & see game.  I also think the Seagate guy is right, the hard drive will win out in the end.  As far as the physical formats go, I've got both.  I got the HD drive for the XBox 360 because it was cheap and updates are easy over XBox Live.  I got a PS3 because I thought the games would be great and I was happy it was backward compatible (I got the 60gb shortly after they came out).  I'm really disappointed in the games for the PS3.  Really it has become just a blu-ray player for me.  Of the two I'd say I prefer HD-DVD by just a hair over blu-ray, but in the end I really don't care - they both look fantastic and if a movie isn't available on one, I'll get it for the other.  I don't understand the heated, verbal-diarrhea arguments that go on over which is better.  Nothing is that important.  (of course there's always the "my DPA can kick your Schoeps ass" arguments, and vice-versa, which I have more interest in, even though I've downgraded to ATs)
Title: Re: The death of HD DVD?
Post by: OFOTD on January 10, 2008, 12:29:18 PM
Just a little more fuel for the fire.


http://www.variety.com/article/VR1117978760.html


Blu-ray could win high-def battle
HD DVD backers could switch sides soon
By DIANE GARRETT, BEN FRITZ

The two remaining studios backing HD DVD could switch sides soon, ending the high-def format war instantly.

Daily Variety has confirmed that Universal's commitment to backing HD DVD exclusively has ended. And Paramount has an escape clause in its HD DVD contract allowing it to release pics on Blu-ray after Warner Bros.' decision to back that format exclusively.

Neither studio is ready to throw in the towel immediately, however. Universal is committed to a series of promotions for the high-def format in coming months, and Par has said its current plans are to keep supporting HD DVD, which it backed exclusively in August.

Should Toshiba concede defeat on the format, the decision to drop HD DVD would be made for both studios. But Toshiba doesn't appear ready to do that. At the Consumer Electronics Show, the manufacturer reaffirmed its commitment to the format, noting strong sales during the fourth quarter and indicating it would continue marketing its hardware through 2008.

But retailers may force the HD DVD camp's hand: They're unlikely to keep devoting premium shelf space to a dying format, and at this point, the odds are not in HD DVD's favor. With Warners' defection, only Par and U remain in the HD DVD camp; Sony, Disney, Fox, Lionsgate remain ardent Blu-ray backers. Warner sister companies New Line and HBO are also shifting allegiance to Blu-ray.

Last summer, Blockbuster also threw its weight behind Blu-ray, though some HD DVD discs remain in stores.

And Warner will continue to release HD DVD discs for the next few months to honor its previous commitment to Toshiba, which extends through May 31. Paramount's HD DVD deal, which covers DreamWorks releases, was to run through this year.
Title: Re: The death of HD DVD?
Post by: John Kelly on January 10, 2008, 12:54:09 PM
The only problem I have with that article is that there were some recent interviews with Retail Executives (from Target, Best Buy, and I believe Circuit City) that said they would not be decreasing the amount of shelf space dedicated to HD DVD.

There's just too much unsubstantiated crap being flung these days.  Right now it appears as though BD will emerge victorious, but it's going to take some time.  This wont be over next week, as some of these articles like to predict.
Title: Re: The death of HD DVD?
Post by: willndmb on January 10, 2008, 01:18:05 PM
here is what i would like to know
rather hd or bluray wins out - will companies go back and release the movie in the winning format?
for example will the bourne movies be released in bluray if it wins out
otherwise i think the dual format player will "win"
Title: Re: The death of HD DVD?
Post by: OFOTD on January 10, 2008, 01:21:38 PM
The only problem I have with that article is that there were some recent interviews with Retail Executives (from Target, Best Buy, and I believe Circuit City) that said they would not be decreasing the amount of shelf space dedicated to HD DVD.

I've read similar interviews from those retail execs.  One thing to keep in mind about those retailers especially in the case of CC and Best Buy is that their margins on CD's and DVD's are almost non-existent.   These stores use CD's and DVD's to drive traffic to to the store in general as well as towards higher margin items.   Several years ago (5+) a former colleague went to work for Best Buy up in Minnesota and he told us that typically they'll lose money on disc sales but that it drives store sales for other items. 

At Walmart most stores have a larger area for book and magazine sale than they do for discs.  Add to the fact that these retailers would never admit to one format or the other as they don't want to alienate even one potential customer.  This summer will probably end up being the deciding factor for the formats when it appears that that is when most of the studios will phase out HD-DVD. 

Title: Re: The death of HD DVD?
Post by: John Kelly on January 10, 2008, 01:22:03 PM
here is what i would like to know
rather hd or bluray wins out - will companies go back and release the movie in the winning format?
for example will the bourne movies be released in bluray if it wins out
otherwise i think the dual format player will "win"

*If* Universal were to switch to Blu-Ray exclusive, then I would imagine that eventually they would be released.  But it's hard to tell now what will happen.  People forget that Paramount and Universal are the two largest movie studios, so the possibility exists of them staying HD exclusive and both formats coexist through combo players.  How likely that is I have no idea, but it is possible.
Title: Re: The death of HD DVD?
Post by: macdaddy on January 10, 2008, 01:30:16 PM


actually, warner (et. al) is the biggest... hence the viability of the much-ballyhooed "out clause that paramount has...

Title: Re: The death of HD DVD?
Post by: wilsonedits on January 21, 2008, 01:03:01 AM
better yet when will apple annouce a new superdrive that includes blue ray capabilities...   

all thought i think there happy staying away from either instead pushing the apple tv concept
Title: Re: The death of HD DVD?
Post by: willndmb on January 21, 2008, 10:42:00 AM
better yet when will apple annouce a new superdrive that includes blue ray capabilities...   

all thought i think there happy staying away from either instead pushing the apple tv concept
nooo shit
hell studio pro and toast have bluray built in
Title: Re: The death of HD DVD?
Post by: John Kelly on January 21, 2008, 11:05:43 AM
better yet when will apple annouce a new superdrive that includes blue ray capabilities...   

all thought i think there happy staying away from either instead pushing the apple tv concept
nooo shit
hell studio pro and toast have bluray built in

Actually only Toast does.  FCP and DVD SP have support for HD DVD, but no Blu-Ray support. 

One of the main problems is that there is no standard way of burning HD videos for playback on a standalone Blu-Ray player.  The method that is supposed to be used isn't supported by 99% of the players (including the PS3) because of copyright issues. 

So my guess is that Apple sees that adding support would be futile, since burned discs wouldn't work in current players.  The only thing you could use it for right now is backups, and Apple has Time Machine and may not be in any hurry to add an expensive upgrade for something they don't think is needed.
Title: Re: The death of HD DVD?
Post by: wilsonedits on January 21, 2008, 04:00:07 PM

One of the main problems is that there is no standard way of burning HD videos for playback on a standalone Blu-Ray player.  The method that is supposed to be used isn't supported by 99% of the players (including the PS3) because of copyright issues. 

So my guess is that Apple sees that adding support would be futile, since burned discs wouldn't work in current players.  The only thing you could use it for right now is backups, and Apple has Time Machine and may not be in any hurry to add an expensive upgrade for something they don't think is needed.

wow that sucks i have wonder why it hasn't happened yet...sucks for people that want to make small budget HD productions which means your pretty much stuck with web distribution.  I guess the only way to watch HD footage on the big screen would be apple tv with that h.264 codec but I haven't seen or had any experience with that


Title: Re: The death of HD DVD?
Post by: John Kelly on January 21, 2008, 04:34:08 PM

One of the main problems is that there is no standard way of burning HD videos for playback on a standalone Blu-Ray player.  The method that is supposed to be used isn't supported by 99% of the players (including the PS3) because of copyright issues. 

So my guess is that Apple sees that adding support would be futile, since burned discs wouldn't work in current players.  The only thing you could use it for right now is backups, and Apple has Time Machine and may not be in any hurry to add an expensive upgrade for something they don't think is needed.

wow that sucks i have wonder why it hasn't happened yet...sucks for people that want to make small budget HD productions which means your pretty much stuck with web distribution.  I guess the only way to watch HD footage on the big screen would be apple tv with that h.264 codec but I haven't seen or had any experience with that




Right now the options seem to be going HD DVD or having your Blu-Rays professionally pressed.  I'm assuming neither looks too good for Apple right now.
Title: Re: The death of HD DVD?
Post by: wilsonedits on January 21, 2008, 05:02:44 PM
 just saw this report dated a few weeks ago... saying a blueray release is in the works on some of there pro grade systems... would be nice if they figured something out

http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/08/01/03/apple_set_to_ship_macs_with_blu_ray_support_report.html
Title: Re: The death of HD DVD?
Post by: John Kelly on January 21, 2008, 05:52:55 PM
just saw this report dated a few weeks ago... saying a blueray release is in the works on some of there pro grade systems... would be nice if they figured something out

http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/08/01/03/apple_set_to_ship_macs_with_blu_ray_support_report.html


Appleinsider.com doesn't have a stellar track record with rumors.  However I think it's pretty safe to assume Apple is testing Blu-Ray drives in their pro systems, the question is when they'll be publicly available. 
Title: Re: The death of HD DVD?
Post by: OFOTD on February 11, 2008, 06:27:46 PM
One more nail in the HD-DVD coffin.   The other major electronics retailers will follow suit soon I would imagine.    Hard to consider buying a non Xbox HD-DVD now that you'll be bombarded with blu-ray advertising.


Best Buy to recommend Blu-ray format
Decision gives Sony yet another victory in the battle with HD DVD
Reuters
updated 4:56 p.m. CT, Mon., Feb. 11, 2008

CHICAGO - Best Buy Co Inc., the largest U.S. consumer electronics chain, said on Monday it will recommend that consumers choose Sony Corp.'s Blu-ray high-definition video format.

The decision gives Sony yet another victory in the battle with Toshiba Corp.'s HD DVD to be the high-definition DVD format of choice.

Earlier on Monday, online video rental company Netflix Inc. said it would exclusively stock Blu-ray DVDs after some of the world's biggest movie studios decided in favor of that format.

Best Buy said it believes consumers will benefit from the choice of one HD DVD format.

"Because we believe that Blu-ray is fast emerging as that single format, we have decided to focus on Blu-ray products," Brian Dunn, Best Buy's president and chief operating officer, said in a statement.

Best Buy will prominently feature Blu-ray hardware and software beginning in March, but will also carry an assortment of HD DVD products for customers who want those, Best Buy said.

Copyright 2008 Reuters. Click for restrictions.

URL: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23117412
Title: Re: The death of HD DVD?
Post by: Chuck on February 11, 2008, 06:55:43 PM
I just saw a news item that NetFlix is going, exclusively, with Blu-ray too.
Title: Re: The death of HD DVD?
Post by: John Kelly on February 11, 2008, 08:06:07 PM
One more nail in the HD-DVD coffin.   The other major electronics retailers will follow suit soon I would imagine.    Hard to consider buying a non Xbox HD-DVD now that you'll be bombarded with blu-ray advertising.


Best Buy to recommend Blu-ray format
Decision gives Sony yet another victory in the battle with HD DVD
Reuters
updated 4:56 p.m. CT, Mon., Feb. 11, 2008

CHICAGO - Best Buy Co Inc., the largest U.S. consumer electronics chain, said on Monday it will recommend that consumers choose Sony Corp.'s Blu-ray high-definition video format.

The decision gives Sony yet another victory in the battle with Toshiba Corp.'s HD DVD to be the high-definition DVD format of choice.

Earlier on Monday, online video rental company Netflix Inc. said it would exclusively stock Blu-ray DVDs after some of the world's biggest movie studios decided in favor of that format.

Best Buy said it believes consumers will benefit from the choice of one HD DVD format.

"Because we believe that Blu-ray is fast emerging as that single format, we have decided to focus on Blu-ray products," Brian Dunn, Best Buy's president and chief operating officer, said in a statement.

Best Buy will prominently feature Blu-ray hardware and software beginning in March, but will also carry an assortment of HD DVD products for customers who want those, Best Buy said.

Copyright 2008 Reuters. Click for restrictions.

URL: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23117412


Now I'm not trying to say that HD DVD is going to win, but anyone else think this is a complete non-story?  It doesn't say they're dropping HD DVD, only that they're going to recommend Blu-Ray products.  If you're already in there buying discs I'm not sure that matters...

The Netflix thing is MUCH worse news for HD DVD.  Although there are many HD DVD supporters that subscribe to Netflix just to rent HD movies.  I wonder how many customers they lose because of it (they've also reported that they've always rented more HD DVDs than Blu-Rays).  Bad news for HD DVD. 

What I want to know is, there are two studios who are contractually obligated to release exclusively in HD DVD format (and one more not under contract, but doing it anyway).  Are retailers just going to decide not to stock any of their movies period? 
Title: Re: The death of HD DVD?
Post by: willndmb on February 11, 2008, 11:03:27 PM
this week bb is also advertising a "final format" bluray player
not sure if thats true or if it actually means the final format of bluray has been decided but i noticed that in the ad this week
Title: Re: The death of HD DVD?
Post by: John Kelly on February 12, 2008, 06:42:00 AM
I'm not seeing that in the ad, only an ad for the LG universal player and a Panasonic player that is definitely not 2.0 spec.  Where do you see that listed?
Title: Re: The death of HD DVD?
Post by: JasonSobel on February 12, 2008, 07:51:41 AM
The Netflix thing is MUCH worse news for HD DVD.  Although there are many HD DVD supporters that subscribe to Netflix just to rent HD movies.  I wonder how many customers they lose because of it (they've also reported that they've always rented more HD DVDs than Blu-Rays).  Bad news for HD DVD. 

this article seems to suggest otherwise:
http://www.boston.com/business/technology/articles/2008/02/12/netflix_opts_for_blu_ray_to_phase_out_hd_dvd/ (http://www.boston.com/business/technology/articles/2008/02/12/netflix_opts_for_blu_ray_to_phase_out_hd_dvd/)

Quote
Netflix opts for Blu-ray, to phase out HD-DVD
By Globe Wire Services  |  February 12, 2008

TORONTO - Netflix Inc., the world's largest mail order movie rental company, said it will start offering high-definition DVDs exclusively in Sony Corp.'s Blu-ray format.

Netflix will phase out Toshiba Corp.'s HD-DVD format by the end of the year after a decision by four Hollywood movie studios to opt for the Blu-ray format over Toshiba's for high-definition films and videos, the Los Gatos, Calif., company said yesterday.

The decision may hurt Toshiba further as the industry decides who will win out in the biggest format war since VHS beat out Betamax in the 1980s. Last month, Time Warner Inc.'s Warner Bros. Entertainment unit said it would use Sony's high-definition home video format, which prompted Toshiba to cut prices.

"We're now at the point where the industry can pursue the migration to a single standard," Netflix said. The company said it received "a clear signal from the industry." The majority of Netflix customers who receive high-definition DVDs already opt for Blu-ray over the HD-DVD format.

Netflix said it expects all of the studios will use Blu-ray, and prices for high-definition players will fall, helping to support another decade of disc-based movie viewing at home. Netflix, with more than 7 million subscribers, stocks more than 400 Blu-Ray titles among its 90,000 choices.

Also yesterday Best Buy Co. Inc., the largest US consumer electronics chain, said it will recommend that consumers choose the Blu-ray format.

Best Buy said it believes consumers will benefit from the choice of one high-definition format. "Because we believe that Blu-ray is fast emerging as that single format, we have decided to focus on Blu-ray products," Brian Dunn, Best Buy's president and chief operating officer, said.

Best Buy will prominently feature Blu-ray hardware and software beginning in March, but will also carry an assortment of HD-DVD products for customers who want those, Best Buy said.

The two major studios that continue to use the Toshiba format are Viacom Inc.'s Paramount Pictures and General Electric Co.'s Universal Pictures.

Netflix shares rose 1 cent to $26.89 in Nasdaq Stock Market composite trading.
Title: Re: The death of HD DVD?
Post by: John Kelly on February 12, 2008, 08:04:46 AM
I can't find any articles right now (all searches seem to lead to the press release from yesterday), but in the past they have said that HD DVD was rented more than Blu-Ray.
Title: Re: The death of HD DVD?
Post by: willndmb on February 12, 2008, 09:29:08 AM
woops my bad, its in the circuit city ad
"final standard profile" Panny bluray player
Title: Re: The death of HD DVD?
Post by: John Kelly on February 12, 2008, 09:55:09 AM
woops my bad, its in the circuit city ad
"final standard profile" Panny bluray player

Ah.  Looks like they're trying to go extra confusing now.  That player is 1.1 spec, which is what I guess they're calling "standard profile".  But it wont be able to update to 2.0 spec, which I think they'll refer to as "enhanced profile". 

Fun stuff figuring all that out. ;)

Bottom line - if you want a player that is guaranteed to be fully compatible, buy a PS3.
Title: Re: The death of HD DVD?
Post by: Myco on February 12, 2008, 11:52:38 AM
A news report on the radio yesterday said that HD-DVD will die now. They said that Best Buy just signed on to recommend Blu-ray players to all of their customers. Circuit City is already doing the same. Combined this with the fact that four major Hollywood production studios have signed on to produce all future films in Blu-Ray format means that HD-DVD will go the way of Beta VCR tapes. At least this is what they said on the news report on WBZ newsradio in Boston yesterday.
Title: Re: The death of HD DVD?
Post by: OFOTD on February 12, 2008, 12:05:36 PM

Now I'm not trying to say that HD DVD is going to win, but anyone else think this is a complete non-story?  It doesn't say they're dropping HD DVD, only that they're going to recommend Blu-Ray products.  If you're already in there buying discs I'm not sure that matters...

The Netflix thing is MUCH worse news for HD DVD.  Although there are many HD DVD supporters that subscribe to Netflix just to rent HD movies.  I wonder how many customers they lose because of it (they've also reported that they've always rented more HD DVDs than Blu-Rays).  Bad news for HD DVD. 

What I want to know is, there are two studios who are contractually obligated to release exclusively in HD DVD format (and one more not under contract, but doing it anyway).  Are retailers just going to decide not to stock any of their movies period? 

Non-story?  No.  I think that the crux of the story is not that they won't stock HD-DVD but that they will not promote it at all. 

Say I walk into a Best Buy or similar and all I see is signs, posters and the like that say blu-ray.  Nothing with HD-DVD on them.   Unless i'm an Xbox 360 owner what would compel me to buy anything other than blu-ray.

These stores still stock some VHS tapes but do you ever see them being promoted anymore? 

The two studios that are still contractually obligated will soon fall.  Once the majority of retailers (BB, CC, Walmart, etc.) start putting their ad dollars and shelf space to Blu-Ray then those studios will have to start producing them.   They'll have no choice because then they're only market will be Xbox owners.  Speaking of which let's hope Microsoft will make the move on their updated 360 or next gen console.   

Doesn't matter which format is better or easier or whatever.  Luckily one has won out.  Didn't matter to me which as I don't have a 360 or PS3.  At least now I can move forward and start investigating which computer bluray burner I want as well as what home theater player i'd like.
Title: Re: The death of HD DVD?
Post by: John Kelly on February 12, 2008, 12:51:11 PM
You think Best Buy and other retailers will be promoting Blu-Ray?  You've got it backwards.  The studios and manufacturers will *PAY* the retailers for marketing space and for prime positions.  That's how it works. 

The only difference now is that Best Buy has said they will be "recommending" Blu-Ray.  That may or may not be a big deal, but most people will not be affected by what a blue shirt tells them they should do.  They either know what it is going in, or they'll buy the Blu-Ray player pushed on them by the blue shirt and think that all of their DVDs are magically high def now.

But the retailers do NO promoting of either format.  All of that is paid for by the studios and manufacturers. 
Title: Re: The death of HD DVD?
Post by: OFOTD on February 12, 2008, 01:20:45 PM
You think Best Buy and other retailers will be promoting Blu-Ray?  You've got it backwards.  The studios and manufacturers will *PAY* the retailers for marketing space and for prime positions.  That's how it works. 

Splitting hairs here John.  Doesn't matter to a consumer who is paying for ad space.  All that the average consumer will notice is the blu-ray signage.   


The only difference now is that Best Buy has said they will be "recommending" Blu-Ray.  That may or may not be a big deal, but most people will not be affected by what a blue shirt tells them they should do.  They either know what it is going in, or they'll buy the Blu-Ray player pushed on them by the blue shirt and think that all of their DVDs are magically high def now.

You are probably in the top 1% of educated consumers.   Does the average consumer really give a shit?   All they care about is that it's cheap and affordable and isn't going to be obsolete in two years.    As far as people 'not being affected by what a blue shirt tells them' then you must have missed the massive amount of Monster Cable that flows out of those stores.   :)

But the retailers do NO promoting of either format.  All of that is paid for by the studios and manufacturers. 

Again splitting hairs.  The knowledge of who is actually paying for the adverts is a non-issue to 99% of consumers.

I think is admirable that you're hanging on to the format but it's like the people in the HD-DVD camp who put out a press release saying Universal Studio still believes in the format.   Well great for Universal but when you're hanging on to those that are still hanging on then your camp is definitely on the downward spiral.    The longer that companies like Universal and Microsoft hang on to the format all they will do is piss of their customers with forcing them into what will be a small niche.     

If Microsoft offered a blu-ray player for the 360 would you not jump on it immediately?   Maybe there was a greater reason why Microsoft didn't include the HD-DVD player internally instead of as an external drive.
Title: Re: The death of HD DVD?
Post by: John Kelly on February 12, 2008, 01:30:39 PM
The only difference now is that Best Buy has said they will be "recommending" Blu-Ray.  That may or may not be a big deal, but most people will not be affected by what a blue shirt tells them they should do.  They either know what it is going in, or they'll buy the Blu-Ray player pushed on them by the blue shirt and think that all of their DVDs are magically high def now.

You are probably in the top 1% of educated consumers.   Does the average consumer really give a shit?   All they care about is that it's cheap and affordable and isn't going to be obsolete in two years.    As far as people 'not being affected by what a blue shirt tells them' then you must have missed the massive amount of Monster Cable that flows out of those stores.   :)

That's what I'm saying - they're either educated about the product and the blue shirt won't affect their decision, or they're completely oblivious to the whole thing and will think that their new HD player only plays in HD - meaning all of their SD DVDs are HD now.  It's already happened - people think that "HD Upscaling" DVD players output their movies in high definition, and we know that isn't really the case.

But the retailers do NO promoting of either format.  All of that is paid for by the studios and manufacturers. 

Again splitting hairs.  The knowledge of who is actually paying for the adverts is a non-issue to 99% of consumers.

I think is admirable that you're hanging on to the format but it's like the people in the HD-DVD camp who put out a press release saying Universal Studio still believes in the format.   Well great for Universal but when you're hanging on to those that are still hanging on then your camp is definitely on the downward spiral.    The longer that companies like Universal and Microsoft hang on to the format all they will do is piss of their customers with forcing them into what will be a small niche.     

If Microsoft offered a blu-ray player for the 360 would you not jump on it immediately?   Maybe there was a greater reason why Microsoft didn't include the HD-DVD player internally instead of as an external drive.

I'm not hanging on to any format.  I'm technically format neutral, but I have decided to stop buying any more HD media.  I've got an AppleTV and I think downloading will be the wave of the future.  I just think that comparatively the Netflix news is much worse, since they have announced an actual phasing out of the format.  Best Buy is going to continue to stock and sell the format, so as long as Toshiba and Universal keep buying ad space the impact should be minimal there. 

And no, I wouldn't jump all over a Microsoft Blu-Ray player - I have a PS3.  I try to buy as little of Microsoft's products as possible (although they do have me pretty hooked with their gaming platform right now).
Title: Re: The death of HD DVD?
Post by: OFOTD on February 12, 2008, 03:19:36 PM
That's what I'm saying - they're either educated about the product and the blue shirt won't affect their decision, or they're completely oblivious to the whole thing and will think that their new HD player only plays in HD - meaning all of their SD DVDs are HD now.  It's already happened - people think that "HD Upscaling" DVD players output their movies in high definition, and we know that isn't really the case.

We're on the same line of thinking for sure.   I read somewhere recently that something like30% of HD tv owners think that they're watching true HD when running a SD signal.  So again you and I being in the top 1% of educated gadget freaks can be frustrating.


I'm not hanging on to any format.  I'm technically format neutral, but I have decided to stop buying any more HD media.  I've got an AppleTV and I think downloading will be the wave of the future.  I just think that comparatively the Netflix news is much worse, since they have announced an actual phasing out of the format.  Best Buy is going to continue to stock and sell the format, so as long as Toshiba and Universal keep buying ad space the impact should be minimal there. 

See I think just the opposite.  Best Buy has effectively said that they're stocking the HDDVD buy not promoting it.  Essentially that the ad space will be taken completely over in favor of blu-ray.  Sony and the others will surely make up for any ad deficit that they would be losing by not accepting the Toshiba/Universal ads.    Best Buy along with others don't want a customer to walk into a store and have to decide on which format.  They (retailers) want there to be only one decision.  And at least at Best Buy stores that means BluRay.  Watch as the Toshiba/Universal ads dwindle from Best Buys and the like.   Those guys don't want to have to double their shelf space for two formats of a product that they make their absolute smallest margins if any on.   For many years Best Buy was losing money on DVD and CD sales because they used those low prices to drive traffic.

What is the true volume of rentals of NetFlix when compared to actual sales of the the same titles?   They run on slim margins in a cut throat business.  They more than anyone in the rental business is overjoyed that a format has been pretty well determined for mass consumption. 

The volume of sales to rentals greatly favors the Best Buys and Wal Marts of the world over NetFlix, Blockbuster or any available download service. 

And no, I wouldn't jump all over a Microsoft Blu-Ray player - I have a PS3.  I try to buy as little of Microsoft's products as possible (although they do have me pretty hooked with their gaming platform right now).

Okay to phrase it a different way.  If you didn't have a PS3 currently would you buy a BluRay from Microsoft if the 360 supported it?   


Oh and downloading services.  With the exception of stuff off of torrent sites I can't see things taking off for at least 5-10 years.  I mean who is going to want to rent or purchase a downloadable movie in BluRay/hi-def format if it takes them four days to grab it?   It not that the tech isn't there its that the consumer bandwidth isn't.   FIOS is a possible solution but its such a tiny small drop in the bucket so far.
Title: Re: The death of HD DVD?
Post by: John Kelly on February 12, 2008, 03:42:06 PM
See I think just the opposite.  Best Buy has effectively said that they're stocking the HDDVD buy not promoting it.  Essentially that the ad space will be taken completely over in favor of blu-ray.  Sony and the others will surely make up for any ad deficit that they would be losing by not accepting the Toshiba/Universal ads.    Best Buy along with others don't want a customer to walk into a store and have to decide on which format.  They (retailers) want there to be only one decision.  And at least at Best Buy stores that means BluRay.  Watch as the Toshiba/Universal ads dwindle from Best Buys and the like.   Those guys don't want to have to double their shelf space for two formats of a product that they make their absolute smallest margins if any on.   For many years Best Buy was losing money on DVD and CD sales because they used those low prices to drive traffic.

I guess we're reading the same thing differently.  I just think it means they'll have their staff recommend Blu-Ray when selling an HDTV. 

What is the true volume of rentals of NetFlix when compared to actual sales of the the same titles?   They run on slim margins in a cut throat business.  They more than anyone in the rental business is overjoyed that a format has been pretty well determined for mass consumption. 

The volume of sales to rentals greatly favors the Best Buys and Wal Marts of the world over NetFlix, Blockbuster or any available download service. 

On a bottom line basis I agree, losing retailers is MUCH worse than losing rental companies.  But I was just speaking to the news we had - Netflix is actually getting rid of HD DVD, while Best Buy is not.  To me that makes the Netflix news worse.


Okay to phrase it a different way.  If you didn't have a PS3 currently would you buy a BluRay from Microsoft if the 360 supported it?

Nope.  I'm not too interested in HD media right now.  Maybe once the price drops to DVD levels.  But I've decided to wait it out for a little while. 

Also I'm not too interested in add-on players.  I passed over the HD DVD add-on and purchased a Toshiba A2 last year.


Oh and downloading services.  With the exception of stuff off of torrent sites I can't see things taking off for at least 5-10 years.  I mean who is going to want to rent or purchase a downloadable movie in BluRay/hi-def format if it takes them four days to grab it?   It not that the tech isn't there its that the consumer bandwidth isn't.   FIOS is a possible solution but its such a tiny small drop in the bucket so far.

I can download from the XBL Marketplace and be watching the HD videos in minutes (it downloads the rest as I'm watching).  AppleTV should be the same.  And I just have a standard cable connection - not a "premium" or increased bandwidth service.  I do plan on switching to FIOS as soon as they're done installing it in my neighborhood, but the bandwidth is there now. 

The bonus for me is being able to watch it exactly when I want, and not having to wait for a disc to come in or head to the store.  I actually rented a movie from Blockbuster this weekend with a friend and remember how much I hate doing that.  The one movie we actually wanted to see was out of stock - don't have that problem with downloads...

The problem will come in if companies like Time Warner and others actually implement their tiered pricing structure.  That is the only thing that will slow down HD downloads IMO.
Title: Re: The death of HD DVD?
Post by: macdaddy on February 12, 2008, 08:30:04 PM
I have a PS3. 
whaaaaaaaaaaat..? i thought you would never give in...

i have a few games i never play (cod4 and the nija sigma gaiden game) - if you want i will send 'em over to ya.

+t for the ps3 - that had to hurt ;)

i think m$ wants both formats to fail so downloading becomes the preferred method of distro, but i dont see that happening...

and what is up with the apple tv only doing 720p..? what's the point of that, and how does that compete with bluray (or hddvd for that matter)..?

Title: Re: The death of HD DVD?
Post by: John Kelly on February 12, 2008, 09:48:50 PM
Yeah the only game I have is God of War - the original for PS2 that I never played.  Really bought it for gaming, but wanted to get the 60 gig while I still could due to backwards compatibility because I missed a lot of great PS2 games.  I do have CoD4 for 360, but may have to take you up on the Ninja Gaiden offer. ;)

And AppleTV is doing 720p due to bandwidth.  No way we'll have downloadable 1080p videos anytime soon.  The increase in bandwidth is HUGE.
Title: Re: The death of HD DVD?
Post by: OFOTD on February 15, 2008, 01:16:54 PM
Now Wal-Mart has abandoned HD-DVD.  No discs, no players.


http://www.news.com/8301-10784_3-9873029-7.html?tag=nefd.top



February 15, 2008 7:31 AM PST
Wal-Mart puts stake through HD DVD's heart

Things have gone from bad to worse for HD DVD in the space of one week.

Wal-Mart Stores announced on Friday morning that it, too, has chosen a side in the battle for high-definition video supremacy: by June, it will stock only Blu-ray Disc players.
(Credit: Crave UK)

A buyer in Wal-Mart's video division wrote this morning on her Wal-Mart Checkout blog that the retail giant had made the decision following Netflix and Best Buy's high-profile announcements that they will exclusively stock Blu-ray products.

Wrote Susan Chronister of Wal-Mart: "By June, Wal-Mart will only be carrying Blu-ray movies and hardware machines and, of course, standard-def movies, DVD players, and up-convert players."

"So," she continues, not mincing words, "if you bought the HD (DVD) player like me, I'd retire it to the bedroom, kid's playroom, or give it to your parents to play their John Wayne standard-def movies, and make space for a (Blu-Ray Disc) player."

That might be the best option at this point, as the dominoes keep falling in Blu-ray's favor. While Netflix and Best Buy were pretty damning evidence that the end was near, now it's glaringly obvious: it's over for HD DVD.

Now, that doesn't necessarily mean that consumers will automatically start buying Blu-ray players. As mentioned many times before here, prices will have to continue to fall on both Blu-ray players and packaged media for there to be any sort of mainstream adoption of the format.

There are rumors that Toshiba might soon be declaring defeat: The Hollywood Reporter has sources telling it that Toshiba, the main backer of HD DVD, might drop its allegiance with the format in the next few weeks.

Toshiba denies it, but stay tuned. There's likely much more to come in this drama.
Title: Re: The death of HD DVD?
Post by: John Kelly on February 15, 2008, 01:19:59 PM
Now THAT is the worst news HD DVD could get.  By far.
Title: Re: The death of HD DVD?
Post by: spreadheadtom on February 15, 2008, 01:22:35 PM
Now THAT is the worst news HD DVD could get.  By far.

QFT


I had gotten an e-mail from Amazon.com about HD DVD's on sale at 50% off.



I still need to dump some HD movies if anyone is interested  ::)
Title: Re: The death of HD DVD?
Post by: John Kelly on February 15, 2008, 01:23:37 PM
Meh, I'm keeping mine.  I'll definitely still watch BSG and Heroes in HD, especially since there's no timetable on when a BD release will happen. 
Title: Re: The death of HD DVD?
Post by: drewloo on February 16, 2008, 09:39:58 PM
This is the end.  My only friend, the end...

Toshiba to give up on HD DVD, end format war: source
Sat Feb 16, 2008

By Mayumi Negishi and Kentaro Hamada  http://www.reuters.com/articlePrint?articleId=USL1643184420080216

TOKYO (Reuters) - Toshiba Corp is planning to give up on its HD DVD format for high definition DVDs, conceding defeat to the competing Blu-Ray technology backed by Sony Corp, a company source said on Saturday.

The move will likely put an end to a battle that has gone on for several years between consortiums led by Toshiba and Sony vying to set the standard for the next-generation DVD and compatible video equipment.

The format war, often compared to the Betamax-VHS battle in the 1980s, has confused consumers unsure of which DVD or player to buy, slowing the development what is expected to be a multibillion dollar high definition DVD industry.

Toshiba's cause has suffered several setbacks in recent weeks including Friday's announcement by U.S. retailing giant Wal-Mart Stores Inc (WMT.N: Quote, Profile, Research) that it would abandon the HD DVD format and only stock its shelves with Blu-ray movies.

A source at Toshiba confirmed an earlier report by public broadcaster NHK that it was getting ready to pull the plug.

"We have entered the final stage of planning to make our exit from the next generation DVD business," said the source, who asked not to be identified. He added that an official announcement could come as early as next week.
Title: Re: The death of HD DVD?
Post by: OFOTD on February 18, 2008, 12:57:15 PM
http://www.smarthouse.com.au/Gaming/Console/J7L7H2R4?page=1

Blu-ray Xbox 360 Planned By Microsoft

By David Richards | Monday | 18/02/2008

Rumours were circulating today that Microsoft is set to dump HD DVD and bring out a Blu ray Xbox 360 by as early as May 2008. The move will allow the Company to go head to head with the Sony PS3 gaming console which has been credited with being one of the main reasons that retailers have preferred Blu-ray over Toshiba’s HD DVD.

Insiders at Microsoft in the USA have told SmartHouse that Microsoft has already configured a standalone Blu-ray player that can be connected into an Xbox 360 and that subject to internal marketing and sales approvals the model could be on sale within 3 months.

The Company has also been working on a built in Blu-ray player however insiders are claiming that Microsoft see the HD format battle moving online with consumers offered 1080p movie and content files as a download as opposed to having to buy a HD DVD or Blu-ray disc.

Both Intel and Microsoft have been supporters of the HD DVD format that is set to be killed off this week.

The Company has also held discussions with several OEM manufacturers of media centres with nearly all of them telling the software Company that they are set to move to Blu-ray configured Media Centres within the next month.

Late last week US Media Centre maker Niveus dumped HD DVD in favour of Blu-ray.

The Company VP of marketing Brian Paper said that Niveus had received support from Microsoft and Intel when implementing HD DVD. The format wasn't pushed on Niveus, he said, adding that the commitment in both Intel and Microsoft "isn't religious for HD DVD".

Michael Ephraim the Managing Director of Sony Computer Entertainment said: "We would welcome Microsoft to the Blu-ray stable. In fact it is quite logical for them as the PS3 has been very succesful in driving consumers to Blu-ray. In fact we believe that it has done more to win the format war than traditional Blu-ray player".

When asked whether Sony would grant Microsoft a Blu-ray licence he said: "That is up to Sony Corporate but I see no reason why they would not do it".

During CES 2006 the then Microsoft's Xbox corporate VP of worldwide marketing and publishing Peter Moore told Japanese site ITmedia that a Blu-ray Xbox 360 peripheral could appear for the system if the need arises. Moore admitted that Microsoft isn't sure of the next-generation format war's outcome, with the worst-case scenario being a repeat of the Beta vs. VHS war of the '80s.

However, he suggested that whatever the outcome of the HD-DVD/Blu-ray war, the Xbox 360 can adopt the dominant format since its uses an external drive.
Title: Re: The death of HD DVD?
Post by: John Kelly on February 18, 2008, 01:18:18 PM
I like how this "Smarthouse" tries to make you think they have some sort of inside scoop at Microsoft.  In reality, Microsoft have said all along that they would make a Blu-Ray add-on if HD-DVD failed.  And it would only make sense that they would have an option in R&D even while the format war was going on.
Title: Re: The death of HD DVD?
Post by: OFOTD on February 18, 2008, 01:27:50 PM
I like how this "Smarthouse" tries to make you think they have some sort of inside scoop at Microsoft.  In reality, Microsoft have said all along that they would make a Blu-Ray add-on if HD-DVD failed.  And it would only make sense that they would have an option in R&D even while the format war was going on.

In all fairness for some reason the Microsoft Australia folks seem to usually have the loosest lips when it come to inner-workings at Microsoft like this.

Whether or not this was a 'scoop' by Smarthouse is certainly up for debate they do seem to be the first to get these potential Microsoft plans out in the open.   
Title: Re: The death of HD DVD?
Post by: OFOTD on February 19, 2008, 12:53:18 PM
Looks to be official now.



Toshiba Quits HD DVD Business
Toshiba Quits HD DVD Business, Handing Victory in Format Battle to Blu-Ray Disc Technology
By YURI KAGEYAMA
The Associated Press

TOKYO

Toshiba said Tuesday it will no longer develop, make or market HD DVD players and recorders, handing a victory to rival Blu-ray disc technology in the format battle for next-generation video.

"We concluded that a swift decision would be best," Toshiba President Atsutoshi Nishida told reporters at his company's Tokyo offices.

The move would make Blu-ray backed by Sony Corp., Matsushita Electric Industrial Co., which makes Panasonic brand products, and five major Hollywood movie studios the winner in the battle over high-definition DVD formatting that began several years ago.

Nishida said last month's decision by Warner Bros. Entertainment to release movie discs only in the Blu-ray format made the move inevitable.

"That had tremendous impact," he said. "If we had continued, that would have created problems for consumers, and we simply had no chance to win."

Warner joined Sony Pictures, Walt Disney Co. and News Corp.'s Twentieth Century Fox in that move.

Nishida said his company had confidence in HD DVD as a technology and tried to assure the estimated 1 million people, including some 600,000 people in North America, who already bought HD DVD machines by promising that Toshiba will continue to provide product support for the technology.

Both HD DVD and Blu-ray deliver crisp, clear high-definition pictures and sound, which are more detailed and vivid than existing video technology. They are incompatible with each other, and neither plays on older DVD players. But both formats play on high-definition TVs.

HD DVD was touted as being cheaper because it was more similar to previous video technology, while Blu-ray boasted bigger recording capacity.

Only one video format has been expected to emerge as the victor, much like VHS trumped Sony's Betamax in the video format battle of the 1980s.

Nishida said it was still uncertain what will happen with the Hollywood studios that signed to produce HD DVD movies, including Universal Studios, Paramount Pictures and DreamWorks Animation.

Toshiba's pulling the plug on the technology is expected to reduce the number of new high-definition movies that people will be able to watch on HD DVD machines. Toshiba Corp. said shipments of HD DVD machines to retailers will be reduced and will stop by end of March.

Sales in Blu-ray gadgets are now likely to pick up as consumers had held off in investing in the latest recorders and players because they didn't know which format would emerge dominant.

Despite being a possible blow to Toshiba's pride, the exit will probably lessen the potential damage in losses in HD DVD operations. Goldman Sachs has said pulling out would improve Toshiba's profitability between 40 billion yen and 50 billion yen ($370 million-$460 million) a year.

The reasons behind Blu-ray's triumph over HD DVD are complex, as marketing, management maneuvers and other factors are believed to have played into the shift to Blu-ray's favor that became more decisive during the critical holiday shopping season.

Once the balance starts tilting in favor of one in a format battle, then the domination tends to grow and become final, said Kazuharu Miura, an analyst at Daiwa Institute of Research in Tokyo.

"The trend became decisive I think this year," he said. "When Warner made its decision, it was basically over."

With movie studios increasingly lining up behind Blu-ray, retailers also began to stock more Blu-ray products.

Friday's decision by Wal-Mart Stores Inc., the largest U.S. retailer, to sell only Blu-ray DVDs and hardware appeared to deal a final blow to the Toshiba format. Just five days earlier, Netflix Inc. said it will cease carrying rentals in HD DVD.

Several major American retailers had already made similar decisions, including Target Corp. and Blockbuster Inc.

Also adding to Blu-ray's momentum was the gradual increase in sales of Sony's PlayStation 3 home video-game console, which also works as a Blu-ray player. Sony has sold 10.5 million PS3 machines worldwide since the machine went on sale late 2006.

HD DVD supporters included Microsoft Corp., Intel Corp. and Japanese electronics maker NEC Corp.

Microsoft's Xbox 360 game machine can play HD DVD movies, but the drive had to be bought separately, and Nishida said about 300,000 people have those.

Worldwide sales of personal computers with HD DVD drives total about 300,000 worldwide, including 140,000 in North America and 130,000 in Europe, he said.

Recently, the Blu-ray disc format has been gaining market share, especially in Japan. A study on fourth quarter sales last year by market researcher BCN Inc. found that by unit volume, Blu-ray made up 96 percent of Japanese sales.

Sony said it did not have numbers on how many Blu-ray players had been sold globally.

Toshiba's stock slipped 0.6 percent Tuesday to 824 yen after jumping 5.7 percent Monday amid reports that a decision was imminent. Sony shares climbed 2.2 percent to 5,010 yen after rising 1 percent Monday.

Also Tuesday, Toshiba said it plans to spend more than 1.7 trillion yen ($15.7 billion) for two plants in Japan to produce sophisticated chips called NAND flash memory, which are used in portable music players and cell phones. Production there will start in 2010.

Copyright 2008 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed
Title: Re: The death of HD DVD?
Post by: Rusty M on February 21, 2008, 01:32:45 PM
http://tech.yahoo.com/blogs/null/80109/with-hd-dvd-dead-will-blu-ray-prices-begin-to-fall

With HD DVD Dead, Will Blu-ray Prices Begin to Fall?
Tue Feb 19, 2008 11:38AM EST

See Comments (59)

With HD DVD officially dead (RIP February 19, 2008), cynics are beginning to wonder whether we're in for a long road of inflated Blu-ray equipment prices.

After all, Blu-ray began its life as the expensive high-def format and it remains so today, defying all expectations that consumers would naturally prefer the budget alternative format. But is it possible that Blu-ray prices might actually start to fall soon?

The conventional wisdom holds that Blu-ray no longer faces competition from HD DVD, so it will be better able to resist price pressure. Well, let's look at the facts: Months of HD DVD fire sales basically did nothing to trim Blu-ray prices so far. If the Blu-ray camp had been worried about being seen as too expensive, those price cuts should already have happened.

And besides, Blu-ray has never really competed with HD DVD.

Oh, sure, the two formats have struggled for dominance, but the real enemy has always been regular, standard-definition DVD. Executives have already been aiming their battle at the DVD world, where players can be had as cheaply as $30, so if price competition is really on Blu-ray developers' minds, we're going to have to see some far bigger cuts, far faster than we have before.

But most importantly by far, inter-format competition has historically been of little importance in price wars of the past. The original CD and DVD players cost thousands of dollars, but prices of both plummeted quickly as the technology to make them improved and overall sales have gone upward, even in the absence of a competing format. Without the distraction of HD DVD nibbling at its side, Blu-ray manufacturers should finally be able to focus on improving quality and decreasing prices instead of out-marketing and out-spending the competition on exclusive deals.

As well, with the format war over, more companies should now enter the market to produce Blu-ray gear and more consumers should sign up to buy said gear, further helping to depress prices as 2008 wears on.

The upshot is that, paradoxically, getting HD DVD out of the market could actually spur more innovation, increase production (as consumers finally get off the fence), and finally start pressuring down prices.

I could be wrong. This is a strange case where egos are involved, and Sony is so beat up by format wars of the past that it may be itching for a payoff this time around. Still, I'm still expecting big price cuts on Blu-ray for holiday 2008.
Title: Re: The death of HD DVD?
Post by: willndmb on February 21, 2008, 01:49:19 PM
someone actually thought they might get a refund on  ???
http://tech.yahoo.com/blogs/patterson/12764/blu-ray-trumps-hd-dvd-the-aftermath
Title: Re: The death of HD DVD?
Post by: Invisible on February 27, 2008, 01:17:40 PM
I'm not so sure about the whole Microsoft/Blu Ray thing:

http://www.thestreet.com/story/10404412/1/blu-ray-victory-wont-budge-microsoft.html

Seems as if they want to go head to head with the PS3 without incorporating the player. Microsoft does not like to pay "royalties".




I like how this "Smarthouse" tries to make you think they have some sort of inside scoop at Microsoft.  In reality, Microsoft have said all along that they would make a Blu-Ray add-on if HD-DVD failed.  And it would only make sense that they would have an option in R&D even while the format war was going on.
Title: Re: The death of HD DVD?
Post by: OFOTD on February 27, 2008, 01:43:18 PM
I'm not so sure about the whole Microsoft/Blu Ray thing:

http://www.thestreet.com/story/10404412/1/blu-ray-victory-wont-budge-microsoft.html

Seems as if they want to go head to head with the PS3 without incorporating the player. Microsoft does not like to pay "royalties".




I like how this "Smarthouse" tries to make you think they have some sort of inside scoop at Microsoft.  In reality, Microsoft have said all along that they would make a Blu-Ray add-on if HD-DVD failed.  And it would only make sense that they would have an option in R&D even while the format war was going on.

Absolutely no new info in the article.    I think that Microsoft has been pretty consistent over the last couple of years that they believe digital distribution over the internet is where they think the future is. 

I believe that they only did HDDVD to keep up with the PS3's inclusion of a HD player (Blu-Ray) in this case.   As far as Microsoft not licensing technology I think for the most part their only problem with that concept is dealing with Sony (<-- a whole other thread).

If the Blu-Ray format truly is the next mass adopted format then its going to be a struggle for many manufactures to even want to deal with Sony.    Either way I think (John Kelly are you reading this) that the percentage of Microsoft HD-DVD players sold in comparison to the number of PS3's with the Blu-Ray is a tiny number.   Of the 10-12 friends I know with a 360 only one has the external HD_DVD drive whereas all of the PS3 owners have a Blu-Ray.


Title: Re: The death of HD DVD?
Post by: John Kelly on February 27, 2008, 02:06:37 PM
If the Blu-Ray format truly is the next mass adopted format then its going to be a struggle for many manufactures to even want to deal with Sony.    Either way I think (John Kelly are you reading this) that the percentage of Microsoft HD-DVD players sold in comparison to the number of PS3's with the Blu-Ray is a tiny number.   Of the 10-12 friends I know with a 360 only one has the external HD_DVD drive whereas all of the PS3 owners have a Blu-Ray.

I don't understand what you're getting at.  Why would any manufacturers need to deal with Sony?  They would deal with the BDA, and all the major consumer electronics manufacturers are already members.  Toshiba has already begun working with them buy buying their chip fabrication plant.  Even Microsoft would get over it quickly.

MS only sold 269,000 HD DVD add-ons.  What is Sony up to now, 4 million PS3s?   Edit - 4.3 in America, 10+ million world wide.
Title: Re: The death of HD DVD?
Post by: OFOTD on February 27, 2008, 02:38:19 PM
And you don't have to think - MS only sold 269,000 HD DVD add-ons.  What is Sony up to now, 4 million PS3s?  Not sure why you'd need to point out the obvious...

What I was hoping you'd know.
Title: Re: The death of HD DVD?
Post by: John Kelly on February 27, 2008, 02:40:11 PM
I thought you were trying to rub it in or something like that. ;)

So hard to read tone online.  Edited my post to seem less hostile.
Title: Re: The death of HD DVD?
Post by: macdaddy on March 16, 2008, 06:13:03 AM


man, m$ is putting all of their eggs in the download basket (which i think is not a wise idea at this point) - they just this week announced that they will NOT be making a blu drive  :o

i am so happy i went with the ps3 when i took the plunge last spring...

Title: Re: The death of HD DVD?
Post by: John Kelly on March 16, 2008, 09:24:39 AM


man, m$ is putting all of their eggs in the download basket (which i think is not a wise idea at this point) - they just this week announced that they will NOT be making a blu drive  :o

i am so happy i went with the ps3 when i took the plunge last spring...



Don't be swayed by their announcement.  They said the same thing before they came out with the HD DVD drive.  I bet we'll eventually see one anyway.
Title: Re: The death of HD DVD?
Post by: macdaddy on March 16, 2008, 11:23:19 AM
i am not swayed,  but if i was on the fence about a system, there is no doubt i would go with a ps3... when i bought one last june, i thought i might regret not having the xbox - not anymore. ditto on the wii (but that has nothing to do with the discussion).
Title: Re: The death of HD DVD?
Post by: Belexes on March 24, 2008, 11:05:07 PM
I got this from Best Buy today:

Dear Best Buy customer,

Our records show that you purchased an HD DVD player from Best Buy™.

Recently, Toshiba announced that they will no longer produce HD DVD players, and movie studios decided they will no longer release new movies in HD DVD.
   
At Best Buy, we are dedicated to making sure you always have the right technology for you. That is why we will be mailing you a Best Buy™ gift card in the upcoming weeks. If you haven't received your gift card by May 1, please call us at 1-888-BEST BUY (1-888-237-8289).

If you are interested in trading in your HD DVD player and HD DVDs, check out our technology trade-in service at BestBuyTradeIn.com where we will accept HD DVD hardware and software in exchange for a Best Buy gift card based on its market value.

**********************

I did their trade-in estimator and with 7 movies get to about $60.  No telling how much the gift card will be for as mentioned above.
Title: Re: The death of HD DVD?
Post by: John Kelly on March 24, 2008, 11:11:33 PM
FYI - Best Buy is pulling out all HD DVD stuff from their stores on Wednesday.  There won't be any closeouts - they're all going back to be resold to outlets like Amazon and Big Lots (according to an internal memo posted on AVS).
Title: Re: The death of HD DVD?
Post by: Sheed on April 01, 2008, 02:12:36 PM
http://www.thinkgeek.com/stuff/41/betamaxhd.html?cpg=70H

 :D
Title: Re: The death of HD DVD?
Post by: Lil Kim Jong-Il on April 06, 2008, 07:54:01 PM
http://www.thinkgeek.com/stuff/41/betamaxhd.html?cpg=70H

 :D

as funny as that is, I need one.  I have movies I recorded on a beta-cam and now no way to play them back to a capture device.
Title: Re: The death of HD DVD?
Post by: Tim on April 06, 2008, 08:11:38 PM
http://www.thinkgeek.com/stuff/41/betamaxhd.html?cpg=70H

 :D

:lol:
Title: Re: The death of HD DVD?
Post by: nickgregory on April 06, 2008, 08:39:25 PM
http://www.thinkgeek.com/stuff/41/betamaxhd.html?cpg=70H

 :D

as funny as that is, I need one.  I have movies I recorded on a beta-cam and now no way to play them back to a capture device.


alright, you just admitted you are old...that and probably need to have a garage sale to get rid of stuff as you obviously have too much :P
Title: Re: The death of HD DVD?
Post by: Tim on April 06, 2008, 09:02:57 PM
clearly not married, no way a wife lets you keep that crap laying around

;)
Title: Re: The death of HD DVD?
Post by: balou2 on April 06, 2008, 11:12:47 PM
http://www.thinkgeek.com/stuff/41/betamaxhd.html?cpg=70H

 :D
That is just hilarious.  I'm laughing...and I'm the guy with 45 HD movies on the shelf.
Title: Re: The death of HD DVD?
Post by: Belexes on April 07, 2008, 04:00:06 PM
Sold the HD-A3 and the 7 movies that came with it for $100 today.

Now I am going to sit back and think about a PS3 that's backwards compatible, wait until Sony prices Blu-Ray players for $200, or maybe cave and get a PS3 40 gig and keep my PS2 and have two video game systems on one TV.
Title: Re: The death of HD DVD?
Post by: spreadheadtom on April 10, 2008, 09:30:10 AM
or maybe cave and get a PS3 40 gig and keep my PS2 and have two video game systems on one TV.

That's what I did :)
Title: Re: The death of HD DVD?
Post by: Ed. on April 10, 2008, 12:42:49 PM
I got my $50 gift certificate to best buy yesterday, my hd dvd addon for the 360 is valued at $17 for the trade in.

I'm passing on the trade in and using it as a pc drive.  that was a costly mistake.

I thought I read once that walmart customers are getting a full refund.  I also read a rumor that netflix might be teaming up with xboxlive for downloadable rentals.