Topic: Difference Beween the m148 and m248?

[JAH]

so I am bound to start a holy war here, but opinions may vary.

not dissing the m148, but 20dbs of gain can be too much for some mics.  I know that MG users for example have to run the pad if your taping FOB....

but as always ymmv

I don't know about that. Have you run one? The MG/Oade Pre combo was fairly common in Panic circles for awhile, I would have thought I would have heard something about that.

Dave Thoma runs MG200/210s>M148>Mod SBM1 right now and he runs it with the pad, as he had a hell of a time getting the sbm1 above the 2/3 range.

I can't get the gain on the modsbm1 over 6, unless it's acoustic music, then I have to pretty much open it wide. normal levels for fob loud rock, around 5. but dpas are pretty low output. really, though, as long you don't have to go lower than 4 for the mod, is it a problem?

When I run the 148 in front of a Msbm ...say at the 9:30 club...w/ the 140's...I am about 4 to 5 on the knob too.  Nice levels/peaks.

[marc0789]

I can't think of a mic that wouldn't sound good paired with an m148. It's pretty transparent other than a nice warm blanket (pretty sophisticated techie term, huh?) and a little low end emphasis. I've heard peeps say that the Schoeps Cards and Subs are probably too low endy to sound good, but I've loved the Schoeps>m148 tapes I've heard.

the 248...different story. I think brighter mics tend to sound almost unbearably bright...like 481's, 40xx, mbho. but very nice with Schoeps.

[Nick's Picks]

see, now I dont find the 148 to be transparent at all.  I use that term for a V2/3 preamp sound.
I think the 148 is warm, fat, up-front sounding.  Paired w/the right mics...like 480's, which  just suck detail out of the air, it makes for a VERY involving recording.

I"ve heard some amazing mk4>m118 or m148 recordings, so I know that can work out too.  I sometimes think the m118/148 might have been "voiced" with mk4's (?anyone?).  Those older rev schoeps mic bodies certainly sounded a little thin, and emphasiesed in a upper/mid range that really didn't help things. So maybe Doug built those to work with that ailing scheops preamp body sound.
That said, I would bet the 148 sounds best with cmc4/5 bodies vs. the 6 which sounds much warmer and natural to me than the earlier revs.

I can't think of any cmc6/mk4 > m148 tapes that come to mind as great, though i'm sure there are exceptions.  When Carl was running this combo, his tapes often sounded like he 5 wool socks over his little ortf bar.  muddy bottom, a blur of sound.  Very noticable to both of us as he was coming off of the 481/3s that sounded soooo sweet and articulated every instrument.  Those mics went out the door pretty fast in favor for the preamp sound.
In hindsight, Carl should have ditched the 148 and tried the 248, or V2 or something.
I"m not a schoeps fan, but i've come to greatly respect...and recently even go as far as to admire, the cmc6/mk4 sound.  But these are mics that require special componants down stream (pre/ad considerations) to really come alive. 

[jpschust]

wanna hear the 4022>148>v3 sound

[carlbeck]

I guess it's my turn to step into the lions den, thanks to Nick for the heads up. Anyway, my opinion has always been that the 480's were made for Oade boxes or vice versus. My preference while I owned both 148 & 248 or MK4's & 480's was that the 481's>248 was perfect FOB, it has a way of cutting "just enough" of the bass energy generated by the cards, also on the same note the MK4>248 sounds awesome as well.

As far as the 148, that became my true favorite b/c there was just a "magical" sound when run with 483's anywhere in the building. The MK4's never really turned out as well with the 148 in my experience running ORTF. I do agree with Nick & feel that Doug built the 118 to sound nice with his mic of choice at the time, Schoeps. He builds the 148 slightly different when run with Schoeps, we had the discussion when he built mine b/c I was running the 480's & MK4's at that time.

Now, if I could do it all over again, I would buy a 148 to run with the 480's & stop buying gear forever.

PS- as far as DPA's sounding good with Oade boxes??? I will just say DPA's don't sound good with anything

[jpschust]

stop buying gear forever.

funniest phrase of the day.

[carlbeck]

BTW- Thanks to all you guys (except Nick) for the kind words about my past tapes. I take alot of pride in my recordings & coming from the most hardcore group of tapers out there it means a bunch. I think it's important that we continue to push each other to the next level, for us to keep making the best possible tapes, for that I say thank you.

I think when all is said & done my new 24 bit rig will produce just as respectable recordings as my previous ones. Let's get the show on the road again

[MattD]

I will just say DPA's don't sound good with anything

You're right ... it's all the bad rooms we have in this country.

[marc0789]

I guess it's my turn to step into the lions den, thanks to Nick for the heads up. Anyway, my opinion has always been that the 480's were made for Oade boxes or vice versus. My preference while I owned both 148 & 248 or MK4's & 480's was that the 481's>248 was perfect FOB, it has a way of cutting "just enough" of the bass energy generated by the cards, also on the same note the MK4>248 sounds awesome as well.

As far as the 148, that became my true favorite b/c there was just a "magical" sound when run with 483's anywhere in the building. The MK4's never really turned out as well with the 148 in my experience running ORTF. I do agree with Nick & feel that Doug built the 118 to sound nice with his mic of choice at the time, Schoeps. He builds the 148 slightly different when run with Schoeps, we had the discussion when he built mine b/c I was running the 480's & MK4's at that time.

Now, if I could do it all over again, I would buy a 148 to run with the 480's & stop buying gear forever.

PS- as far as DPA's sounding good with Oade boxes??? I will just say DPA's don't sound good with anything

Carl, that's complete crap. 40xx are akg's with midrange. more similar than they are different. and for anyone who thinks this, I can pull out a ton of 4022>eaa>adk or 4022>m148>mme/modsbm1 tapes that will change your mind.

and I think the whole idea that the v2/v3 sound is "what your mics hear" may or may not be true. but it sure isn't what my ears hear. I can say that every single m148 show sounds like what my ears hear. Doug figured out a way to build a preamp that accurately reproduces the soundstage. my opinion is that every mic needs help to sound good. no one has any idea what their mic sounds like, so the statement "the v2 reproduces what the mic hears" is crap. the v3 reproduces stunning high end when run behind the dpas, but that's about it. everything else is mediocre, imo.

and Carl, did you ever run the 4022's without a v3 in the mix?

[carlbeck]

Marc, to be honest, I was hoping to ruffle your feathers but what I ask you is what type of playback system are you listening on? I keep bringing this up because it is crucial to determine how "good" something sounds. I say this from experience, I sold some gear I shouldn't have b/c I thought my system was "good enough" & the gear sounded like crap. When I go back now & listen on my system I am shocked to hear how good things REALLY sounded.

I am "lucky" enough at this point to have "enough" money invested in my system but that is only b/c I started to realize how important playback was & got off the new gear every month merry-go-round & started spending my money on my playback. Nick & I have proven this time & time again at our houses with various stereo gear that playback is as important as what you use to capture the sound.

I always offer this up to anyone with a set of ears, if you want to hear how good your rig sounds please come to my house for a day & we will LISTEN to your rig. It may save you from selling the wrong thing for the next big thing.

As far as the DPA's without the V3 I never tried them & I will say the discs you have sent me are the best DPA recordings I have ever heard. Unfortunately it still doesn't change my mind about the DPA's. For me, in my rig, where I tape, for what I tape, DPA's made the worst possible tapes.

[jpschust]

Marc, to be honest, I was hoping to ruffle your feathers but what I ask you is what type of playback system are you listening on? I keep bringing this up because it is crucial to determine how "good" something sounds. I say this from experience, I sold some gear I shouldn't have b/c I thought my system was "good enough" & the gear sounded like crap. When I go back now & listen on my system I am shocked to hear how good things REALLY sounded.

I am "lucky" enough at this point to have "enough" money invested in my system but that is only b/c I started to realize how important playback was & got off the new gear every month merry-go-round & started spending my money on my playback. Nick & I have proven this time & time again at our houses with various stereo gear that playback is as important as what you use to capture the sound.

I always offer this up to anyone with a set of ears, if you want to hear how good your rig sounds please come to my house for a day & we will LISTEN to your rig. It may save you from selling the wrong thing for the next big thing.

As far as the DPA's without the V3 I never tried them & I will say the discs you have sent me are the best DPA recordings I have ever heard. Unfortunately it still doesn't change my mind about the DPA's. For me, in my rig, where I tape, for what I tape, DPA's made the worst possible tapes.

carl, first your house then mine

i LOVE my 4022 tapes on my system.

[marc0789]

Marc, to be honest, I was hoping to ruffle your feathers but what I ask you is what type of playback system are you listening on? I keep bringing this up because it is crucial to determine how "good" something sounds. I say this from experience, I sold some gear I shouldn't have b/c I thought my system was "good enough" & the gear sounded like crap. When I go back now & listen on my system I am shocked to hear how good things REALLY sounded.

I am "lucky" enough at this point to have "enough" money invested in my system but that is only b/c I started to realize how important playback was & got off the new gear every month merry-go-round & started spending my money on my playback. Nick & I have proven this time & time again at our houses with various stereo gear that playback is as important as what you use to capture the sound.

I always offer this up to anyone with a set of ears, if you want to hear how good your rig sounds please come to my house for a day & we will LISTEN to your rig. It may save you from selling the wrong thing for the next big thing.

As far as the DPA's without the V3 I never tried them & I will say the discs you have sent me are the best DPA recordings I have ever heard. Unfortunately it still doesn't change my mind about the DPA's. For me, in my rig, where I tape, for what I tape, DPA's made the worst possible tapes.

Carl, admittedly not a great playback system...nice vintage yamaha receiver and some pinnacle speakers, not great, not bad....and if you think the bunch I sent you was good, I have more standouts I'd be happy to send, particularly 11/16 Mule in the ass Barrymore, 10/27 DBT in the nearly as assy First Avenue, 11/12 and 11/13 Hot Tuna at the sublime Cedar Cultural Center, and a bunch of others. I maintain that DPA's sound like shit for the most part other than in a primo venue and location, unless run into a transformer pre like an m148, eaa or mp-2. I still haven't heard a bad panic tape from brothers/kinder/smiley from their 4021>eaa>1k days.  I think the same thing of akg's, some of the very worst tapes I've ever heard are 481>v2 tapes. And some of the very best are 481(3)(2)>m148>1k or hhb, just some of my favorite tapes.

[carlbeck]

I really do wish some of us lived closer together, it would be great if we could alternate houses/systems on a regular basis just to get a chance to listen each others recordings. How many times have you huddled around a boombox in a hotel after the show determining which sources sound "best"? I know I have done it. Then you get home & listen on a real stereo & you are shocked at the difference.

Marc, your right, there are good DPA tapes out there but my point is just what I said for me, they are crap, at least I have owned everything & used them enough to say it without a doubt in my mind.

[grider]

I +T'd you Carl just for sharing your knowledge with us, and it is substantial, and as a 480's owner I appreciate your insight, thanks

[marc0789]

wanna hear the 4022>148>v3 sound

no, my ears can't take that kind of beating.