Topic: Suggested Preamp for the Nakamichi CM-300?

[suntzu420]

Looking at running my Nakamichi's with a preamp.  I understand that the Naks run on internal power and need to work with a preamp that has the ability to run without phantom power.  Now, that being said, once I get my Naks, i'm going to have Mr. Leegeddy mod my naks for phantom power.

So, the question comes down to this.  Money at this point isn't an option for the preamp but these are the ones I've been looking at.  Also note, I do a lot of stealth taping and I need a preamp that is stealthable.

Sonosax SX-M2 w/Lemo mod:  Just got pricing back on this today from Cascade Media (thanks Frank and Brian Skalinder!).  Price doesn't look bad and I like the sound of the Sonosax, especially after hearing Brian's APC tape from Columbus, OH.  The only thing I don't like about it is the fact it does not have a ADC in it, which means that in the future I will end up having to buy one.  Not a bad thing, but somewhat of an inconveinece.

Lunatec V3:  What can I say about the V3 that hasn't already been said? .  I've got a bunch of buddies who run it and love it more than their g/f's and wives.  I really think it sounds transparent, but provides all the right features that you would need to do 24/96 taping in the future.  A little pricey, and definitly not stealthable, unless your the Schoeps taper I know in TN.  I would really consider this if I was taping nothing but open taping bands, but that's not generally what comes through my neck of the woods.

Edirol UA-5:  Again, lots of buzz about the UA-5 on this board and everywhere else.  I've only heard a few tapes with it, but what I heard I liked (also note that most of the shows I've heard the UA-5 ran in, were ran with the Presence Mod).  Also, provides all of the same ADC features that the V3 does for future 24/96 recording.  The only thing that I keep hearing though is that the Edirol unit isn't bit accurate.  I haven't seen any real proof of it, but i imagine the tapers on here know what they are talking about, but I would really like to see where this is evident.  Because if that is the case, I think I might shy away from the unit, as I think bit accuracy is important when doing digital recording.

Now, the only problem with these options, is that I've never heard Naks ran through any of these Preamps.  So, Nak guru's of the TapersSection, please share of your ultimate wisdom

Many thanks,

Benjamin

[The Kilted Taper]

I run my 300's through a WMod UA-5. Love it. I've got a Galactic show on the tapers tracker if you're interested. No windows open now, but will open one when I get home this evening if interested.

[Brian Skalinder]

[1] I'd only go with the Sax if you *really* love the sound and/or plan on turning your Naks into Franken-Naks for stealthing.  (Perhaps the process of converting to phantom turns 'em into Franken-Naks?)  If you go this route, what ADC would you use at the moment?  Assuming the one in your portable recorder, but...which recorder?

Huh, just re-read your post and realized you're gonna do a lot of stealthing.  If your stealthing requires getting through pat-downs, I think the V3 and UA5 are a tough sell and would go with the SX-M2/LS.

[2] The V3 is a phenomenal sounding unit, but I wonder if it wouldn't make the Nak's "flaws" characteristics more noticable?  And is that good or bad?  Dunno, as I'm not familiar enough with Nak's.

[3] There are definitely people who've run Nak > some-flavor-UA5.  I know Jesse Scott ran Naks > p-mod UA5.  Check out archive.org and I bet you'll find a few Nak > UA5 recordings.

Looking at running my Nakamichi's with a preamp.  I understand that the Naks run on internal power and need to work with a preamp that has the ability to run without phantom power.  Now, that being said, once I get my Naks, i'm going to have Mr. Leegeddy mod my naks for phantom power.

[Andi]

I know that the answer might be obvious ,but what made you run the Naks.  I use the AD-20, but my mics have not yet been mod'ed.  I just like testimonials....

[Andi]

[2] The V3 is a phenomenal sounding unit, but I wonder if it wouldn't make the Nak's "flaws" more noticable?

Elaborate.....   (if you dont mind)

[Brian Skalinder]

[2] The V3 is a phenomenal sounding unit, but I wonder if it wouldn't make the Nak's "flaws" more noticable?

Elaborate.....   (if you dont mind)

Poor choice of words on my part.  Really, I should've said "characteristics", not "flaws", as in the V3 will reveal the mic's true characteristics.  I've heard of Nak's having a high noise floor, but suspect either it's not audible for concert recording, or that it's just that - talk.

Edit to add:  I'm not terribly familiar with Nak's so I can't speak to their specific sonic characteristics very well.  I can say that a bunch of the Nak recordings I've heard came across a bit dull, a bit distant, not very detailed, kinda thin but tight on bass - but there are soooo many variables to consider, I can't really stick any of those comments on the Nak's themselves.

[marc0789]

[2] The V3 is a phenomenal sounding unit, but I wonder if it wouldn't make the Nak's "flaws" more noticable?

Elaborate.....   (if you dont mind)

Poor choice of words on my part.  Really, I should've said "characteristics", not "flaws", as in the V3 will reveal the mic's true characteristics.  I've heard of Nak's having a high noise floor, but suspect either it's not audible for concert recording, or that it's just that - talk.

Edit to add:  I'm not terribly familiar with Nak's so I can't speak to their specific sonic characteristics very well.  I can say that a bunch of the Nak recordings I've heard came across a bit dull, a bit distant, not very detailed, kinda thin but tight on bass - but there are soooo many variables to consider, I can't really stick any of those comments on the Nak's themselves.

having run those mics, I will say "flaws". warm mod ua-5 or straight into a mme, or nak>mp-2>modsbm1. something that hides the sins. good starter mic. nice outdoors or in a perfect indoor venue. ok high end, weak mids, weak lows.

[dnsacks]

re ua5 and bit-perfect.  This simply doesn't matter when using the ua5 to record an ANALOG source (i.e. feeding it with mics).  It is an issue if you plan to use the ua5 to transfer a digital source to your computer, etc., as the resampling would result in the post>ua5 material being different than the pre>ua5 material.  However, when recording from mics, nothing's being "tainted" by the non-bit-perfect nature of the ua5.

I think the oade-modded ua5 sounds great in all of its flavors (I run a transparent mod plus) and provides an amazing bang for the buck.  This past summer, used my ua5 behind a pair of nak 300/omni caps to record the david grisman quintet.  Liked the way this combo sounded a lot, happy to get you a copy to listen to.

Darrin

[suntzu420]

I've seen alot of Nak sources since I began taping.  I wasn't very familiar with them.  I had been told by friends that had been in the taping scene that mainly, older tapers ran them.  After doing some research on the Nakamichi mics, I came across an old article that compared them to B&K mics (now DPA).  Even at this point, I had really heard any shows with Nak sources, primarily as the shows that generally were Naks were used, was a band I was really interested in. Also, that being said, I wouldn't know how to characterise the sound on the taped, compared to a studio album or any other tape of that band.  Being that I'm a Melvins fan, some time back in March of this year, Mike Zeigler, posted his 2 recordings of the Melvins..one in Oregon and one in Seattle.  Both Nak sources.  Nakamichi CM-300/CP-1 > TCD-D100 to be exact.  Absolutely amazing shows and sound.  I had finally found a show that I could compare sonically with a band I had already heard and knew what to expect out of the mics.  After that, I was pretty much sold on getting a set.  I had tried to track down a pair before, but unfortunatly ran into some financial troubles and was unable to go through with buying the set that i was going to buy.  So, being that I was in the arena to upgrade again, I decided to track down another pair.  I just bought my pair from Andy (dwonk) and should have them here pretty soon.

Brian:
To answer your question, as of right now, I do not have an ADC.  I'm searching for an M1 right now and will hopefully have one soon.  My rig before this was Dynamic Audio Binaurals > DAB Battery Box > Sharp MT877.  my rig never failed me when I needed it.  But for some reason, my MD unit died on me and i'm in the process of getting it fixed, as I have alot of shows that still need to be transferred!!  Although, I have considered getting a Nomad Jukebox 3 as a recorder for the simple fact that it looks alot easier to transfer shows than a DAT or MD.  Again though, this would be a strictly analog recording with introducing an ADC to the equation.  I feel like adding another piece of equipment to what i'm already looking into, will only make stealthing that much harder.  Of course, If i wanted to be hardcore, I guess i could run straight analog and go out and find a Sony WM-D3C

[Brian Skalinder]

I'm searching for an M1 right now and will hopefully have one soon.

This is a good choice, IMO.  If I was getting together a new-to-me, stealth setup - even JB3 fluffer that I am - I'd get an M1 or D100 because their line-in and ADC is considerably better to my ears, though many people can't tell the difference or even prefer the JB3 line-in/ADC.  Also keep in mind the D100 comes with a tiny remote useful for starting the recording and monitoring levels.

[suntzu420]

I'd get an M1 or D100 because their line-in and ADC is considerably better to my ears, though many people can't tell the difference or even prefer the JB3 line-in/ADC.

I thought so as well.  Although, after just speaking with one of my friends, I guess I could get a AD-20, but again, adds more equipment to the equation.

[suntzu420]

Well, I just wanted to let everyone know that I ordered my Sonosax SX-M2 2 days ago, and it should be here in about 2 weeks.  I just wanted to say thanks for everyone that had some input on the issue. 


Benjamin

[OOK]

It depends on your taste.............the sonic signature of your mics..............I wouldn't run a bright mic into a V3..The V3 is a bright sounding piece of gear(not in a bad sense).............always run a warm mic into a bright pre and visaversa....IF you mics are bright I would run a wmod ua5........they sound great! and the price is right or a minime...............If your mics sound warm use the V3 its a nice ballance....

But ultimately it comes down to what you like...your ears...if it sounds good to you go with it...sound quality is like beer many flavors and tastes........

[jhirte]

 Being that I'm a Melvins fan, some time back in March of this year, Mike Zeigler, posted his 2 recordings of the Melvins..one in Oregon and one in Seattle.  Both Nak sources.  Nakamichi CM-300/CP-1 > TCD-D100 to be exact.  Absolutely amazing shows and sound.  I had finally found a show that I could compare sonically with a band I had already heard and knew what to expect out of the mics.  

You should have seen how he ran them too. Sort of A/B both pointing at the mains at the Crystal Ballroom show, and both A/B towards the stage at the Showbox show. About 6" spread too
I'll take my AT4051 -> V3 tapes of the same shows over the Nak ones any day..

-Jim

[Big Muff]

has anyone ran the nak cm-300 with a Transparent Plus Mod yet?  Of yes, how'd it sound?

I'm runnin' the LeeGeddy Naks through a P-mod UA-5.
Nothing could give you more bang for the buck! 

here's a link to a good un-moded CM-300 + CP-4 (L/R) CP-3 (C) > MX-100 > P-mod UA5 recording i made recently.
this was also with the MX > UA5 "mic in".. kudos to Leftover Sammy for that hint 

http://www.archive.org/audio/etree-details-db.php?id=19840

try the "weary as water" aka "swing" and the "Gatecrashers Suck > B.E. Women"

-Mike

[charles]

I would definitely check this out.

http://www.archive.org/audio/etree-details-db.php?id=10499

I don't know the taper....someone here probably does....but he's running into an AD-20 and this tape sound spectacular...IMHO. Worth a listen for sure.

[ts]

I've been running my Nak CM1000's>V3 for just a little over a year now and love the sound. I've recently run my CM700's>V3 and like it just as much with just slight differences in sound. I think the 700's sound just a tad better in shitty venues, but the 1000's rule in good sounding venues.
I'm waiting for my CP1 leegeddy mods(Franken Naks)to come back and really looking forward to trying them. Before I had a pre, I ran CM300's with batteries into an SBM1 with nice results. The Leegeddy's, a PS and an SBM1 would make a nice little stealth rig. Real inexpensive small rig, without a pre. I wish I never sold my SBM1.