Topic: Mic Advice

[inabsentia]

Hi folks.. first post on here, so please be gentle!!

I'm based in the UK and I've been recording gigs for about 4/5 years . Up to now I've been using a Sony Hi - MD (generally in Hi-SP mode) but I've just got hold of a Zoom H2 so I can record full  sets in wav format without disc swapping. I record using line in with a battery box and something pretty much identical to these mics -

http://cgi.ebay.com/STEREO-Y-MICROPHONE-PANASONIC-MICS-REC-LIVE-CONCERTS_W0QQitemZ120333040044QQcmdZViewItemQQptZPortable_MiniDisc_Players?hash=item120333040044&_trksid=p3911.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318

I'm recording loud hard rock/metal shows usually and I get pretty good results too. I share plenty of my recordings and get lots of good comments about the SQ of my recordings.

My question is this-I know there are lots of other factors involved and words like  'Quality'  or 'Better' are very subjective but if I went for, say, a pair of the CA11's I've read/heard so much about would there be any real improvement in the recording 'Quality' to justify (More to the missus, not myself!!) spending money on a new set of mics?  I hear recordings made with them at similar types of shows to the ones I go to that sound fabulous, but not really any 'better' than I seem to be turning out.

Many thanks

[Church-Audio]

Hi folks.. first post on here, so please be gentle!!

I'm based in the UK and I've been recording gigs for about 4/5 years . Up to now I've been using a Sony Hi - MD (generally in Hi-SP mode) but I've just got hold of a Zoom H2 so I can record full  sets in wav format without disc swapping. I record using line in with a battery box and something pretty much identical to these mics -

http://cgi.ebay.com/STEREO-Y-MICROPHONE-PANASONIC-MICS-REC-LIVE-CONCERTS_W0QQitemZ120333040044QQcmdZViewItemQQptZPortable_MiniDisc_Players?hash=item120333040044&_trksid=p3911.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318

I'm recording loud hard rock/metal shows usually and I get pretty good results too. I share plenty of my recordings and get lots of good comments about the SQ of my recordings.

My question is this-I know there are lots of other factors involved and words like  'Quality'  or 'Better' are very subjective but if I went for, say, a pair of the CA11's I've read/heard so much about would there be any real improvement in the recording 'Quality' to justify (More to the missus, not myself!!) spending money on a new set of mics?  I hear recordings made with them at similar types of shows to the ones I go to that sound fabulous, but not really any 'better' than I seem to be turning out.

Many thanks

In order to answer that question we have to know who made your mics and what capsule they were using and how it was modified.

My ca-11 is a good mic but if you want a giant leap forward my Ca-14 Is the way to go they are on sale now for $129 and there is free shipping to the UK. And I am pretty sure if your battery box is putting out at least 6 volts you will have no issues. As for the mics you posted on ebay they are not something I would recommend to anyone. You also have to remember that the mics I mentioned the CA-11 and CA-14 are cardioid mics not omni they tend to be better in most situations where the room acoustics are not great and the crowd is loud. They will provide a much more focused sound them most omni mics again I cant really comment on the mics you have because I have never heard them. Even with hearing them its hard to tell how much of what I am hearing is the venue or the mics them selves. Good luck with your search and let me know if I can be of any help.

Chris
Church Audio

[inabsentia]

Thanks for the reply- I realise it's virtually impossible to answer with any kind of certainty so thanks for the input!

All I know about the mics I'm using is that they came from the same people selling the one I linked to about 3 years ago and they look identical and the description is the same too.   The battery box I got about a year after I started taping from a guy who hand makes them on the mini disc forum (Goes by the name of 'Green Machine' - he also makes mics)- it uses a 9v battery so should be fine. That purchase made a huge difference to the quality of my recordings, then I added the current set of mics which again improved it buy a large amount. I just wonder how much better still it could get given all the issues surrounding recording in the type of venues I generally go to.

I guess the only way to fully evaluate what 'extra' they would do would be on a side by side test - not sure I could get £80 past the wife..especially this close to Christmas!!

Again.. thanks for your input

[Belexes]

inabsentia, I have downloaded a lot of the bands you have taped on your side of the pond from Dime and have often wondered if you'd consider a mic upgrade. 

Church audio will be the best bang for your buck and give you vastly improved recordings.  Tell the Mrs. they are on sale with free shipping and there's no way you couldn't buy them.

[inabsentia]

In what way would they be 'vastly improved' ? That's the big question that I have to justify to myself really,, I don't want to be in an 'Emporers New Clothes' situation where I'm trying to convince myself the recordings are better when they aren't.

[Church-Audio]

In what way would they be 'vastly improved' ? That's the big question that I have to justify to myself really,, I don't want to be in an 'Emporers New Clothes' situation where I'm trying to convince myself the recordings are better when they aren't.

I know the guy that built your mics.. I can tell you that there will be a night and day difference between my mics and the ones you purchased from ebay. I dont sell mics for $29 a pair and there is a good reason for that..

A- Its silly when you sell mics for $29 a pair you MUST cut corners in order to make a profit where the corners get cut most often is in the design and the testing of the product.

B- Remember you are not just paying for the parts your paying for the time, effort and research that goes on to make a good product and for the support before and after the sale.

C- Anyone can get a cheap plastic mold and solder headphone cable on to a few capsules and call it a day. That's not what I and some others in the business do some of us actually test the mics we sell and properly match them so you dont have a giant crap sandwich for a recording. Don't take my word for it listen to the samples of my mics.

Chris

[Fatah Ruark (aka MIKE B)]

I've heard some pretty nice recordings with Church Audio mics...just get the CA-14's...you won't be disappointed.

I run DPA 4060's and I'm probably going to be getting rid of them soon to fund my new open mics, and get a set of Church mics for the rare occasion when I need small mics.

[bobcat]

 just from my own experiance with buying mics definatly go with the 129 dollar ones. i bought these crappy panasonic mics for 50 buck off ebay cause i was unaware of mostly everything at that point. then i got upgraded twice more till i was happy.

 aim a bit higher from the start and u wont waste money like i did, go with the better church mics hes offering ya. or just a tad more expensive mics where ever you go.

cheers.

[inabsentia]

 just from my own experiance with buying mics definatly go with the 129 dollar ones. i bought these crappy panasonic mics for 50 buck off ebay cause i was unaware of mostly everything at that point. then i got upgraded twice more till i was happy.

 aim a bit higher from the start and u wont waste money like i did, go with the better church mics hes offering ya. or just a tad more expensive mics where ever you go.

cheers.

That's the thing.. I'm not at the start- I'm 3 years in with these mics and they are giving me excellent results, I'm happy with them and I know just where to mount them to get good recordings. I realise it's almost impossible to be definitive but to lay down another £80/$130 - especially in the current economic climate - I need to be able to justify the expense - and the recordings I've searched out and heard today (I've found several up on DIME  using the CA-14's) that are similar to gigs I tape just don't soundany  'better' (that word is subjective, I know) than I'm getting from my current set. Yes, I know that there all kinds of other variables that come into the equation, but without being able to do a side by side test, it's a tough call to make!!

[inabsentia]

In what way would they be 'vastly improved' ? That's the big question that I have to justify to myself really,, I don't want to be in an 'Emporers New Clothes' situation where I'm trying to convince myself the recordings are better when they aren't.

I know the guy that built your mics.. I can tell you that there will be a night and day difference between my mics and the ones you purchased from ebay. I dont sell mics for $29 a pair and there is a good reason for that..

A- Its silly when you sell mics for $29 a pair you MUST cut corners in order to make a profit where the corners get cut most often is in the design and the testing of the product.

B- Remember you are not just paying for the parts your paying for the time, effort and research that goes on to make a good product and for the support before and after the sale.

C- Anyone can get a cheap plastic mold and solder headphone cable on to a few capsules and call it a day. That's not what I and some others in the business do some of us actually test the mics we sell and properly match them so you dont have a giant crap sandwich for a recording. Don't take my word for it listen to the samples of my mics.

Chris


Chris

Chris, thanks for that- I sense you might be getting antagonised a bit by this now, so I'll back off.

[Lil Kim Jong-Il]

A side-by-side comparison is a great idea.  You have two recorders.  Chris offers his mics in the loaner threads.  http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,99672.0.html   Why not try and see what kind of results you get?

[inabsentia]

A side-by-side comparison is a great idea.  You have two recorders.  Chris offers his mics in the loaner threads.  http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,99672.0.html   Why not try and see what kind of results you get?

That would be an excellent idea, I didn't know about this 'loaner' system, but as I don't already own the CA-11's, that would appear to rule me out (Probably quite rightly too, as he doesn't know me from Adam!!)

[Lil Kim Jong-Il]

I think that he was looking for CA-11 owners to evaluate the new mics when they were originally released back in February.  I don't think that's the case anymore.

[Church-Audio]

In what way would they be 'vastly improved' ? That's the big question that I have to justify to myself really,, I don't want to be in an 'Emporers New Clothes' situation where I'm trying to convince myself the recordings are better when they aren't.

I know the guy that built your mics.. I can tell you that there will be a night and day difference between my mics and the ones you purchased from ebay. I dont sell mics for $29 a pair and there is a good reason for that..

A- Its silly when you sell mics for $29 a pair you MUST cut corners in order to make a profit where the corners get cut most often is in the design and the testing of the product.

B- Remember you are not just paying for the parts your paying for the time, effort and research that goes on to make a good product and for the support before and after the sale.

C- Anyone can get a cheap plastic mold and solder headphone cable on to a few capsules and call it a day. That's not what I and some others in the business do some of us actually test the mics we sell and properly match them so you dont have a giant crap sandwich for a recording. Don't take my word for it listen to the samples of my mics.

Chris


Chris

Chris, thanks for that- I sense you might be getting antagonised a bit by this now, so I'll back off.

God no... not at all.
Chris

[inabsentia]

Thanks again Chris... I really don't dispute the quality or service you offer - and that has been amplified (sic) by the people I've been in contact with today who use your gear. What I still have a problem with is that having listened to several sample recordings today, I am honestly struggling to hear anything that makes me go 'woah-  mine wouldn't record like that' - I know, I know- unless you could put 2 versions of the same show side by side recorded on the same equipment and in the same position,  that's always going to be an issue. 

I do understand the 'value' in things- as a sales manager myself working for a company who aren't the cheapest at what we do, I'm forever selling on 'features and benefits' and on the service we offer to back our product up, but sometimes, all of my 'ammunition' just doesn't matter- like the guy who's cheap set of spanners  have outlasted the four sets of expensive ones I've sold him - I can prove to him that ours are technically superior, but the proof of the pudding is there every time I try and sell him on the idea of paying more for his spanners!!! Bringing that analogy back to topic- the $50 mics I've got work great with my battery box- I can record at the loudest shows without any distortion and get a well balanced recording with plenty of 'space' in it. Maybe I've got lucky, maybe I got the one really well matched pair of these, maybe it's all down to the scale of economics.

Don't get me wrong here Chris- I'm not ruling this out, but I hope you can see my point here. If this was a coat I was buying I could try it on to make sure it fit better than my current one - then there couldn't be any doubt- I can't do this in this case. One thought though- I assume you keep  records of people who've bought these from you? If so, have you sold any to anyone from around where I am located (Manchester/North West England- though I do regfularly fgo further afield for gigs)? If so, assuming they too are gig tapers, I could arrange to go to the same show as them to make a 'side by side' comparison.