Topic: phantom power for DPA 4061s?

[jnorman34]

hiya - I picked up a pair of DPA 4061s that terminate in a single stereo mini-plug.  this allows them to be used directly into some portable recorders that supply 5v plugin power to the mini mic input jack.

Naiant makes what jon calls a PFA - phantom power adapter - which has a stereo mini-jack on one end, and a pair of standard XLR plugs on the other end, so you can plug the stereo mini-jack from the pair of 4061s into the naiant unit and then use a regular preamp with XLR ins which supply 48v phantom power.  i am assuming that jon knws what he is doing, but...

the question is - without something that steps the power supplied from 48v down to the 5v that the 4061s need, will i be running a risk of frying the 4061s? 

[boojum]

Jim -

From the horse's mouth:

http://www.dpamicrophones.com/en/products.aspx?c=Item&category=128&item=24039#specifications

http://www.dpamicrophones.com/en/products.aspx?c=Item&category=139&item=24263#description

http://www.dpamicrophones.com/sitecore/shell/Controls/Rich%20Text%20Editor/~/media/PDF/Download/Users%20Manuals/4060%204061.pdf

http://www.dpamicrophones.com/en/products.aspx?c=item&category=138&item=24118#description


Sheesh, I just saw the price on these puppies.  Imagine what the labor rate is in Denmark, must be EU75 an hour.   LOL  The best deal with DPA is to get the whole kit and save some money that way.  A la carte they eat you alive.

[Gutbucket]

..the question is - without something that steps the power supplied from 48v down to the 5v that the 4061s need, will i be running a risk of frying the 4061s?

The answer is yes.  Don't feed them more than 12v or so.  48v will fry 'em.

The last link above is the DPA phantom to plugin power adaptor but those are something like $100 each and you need two of them.  The Niant adapter is probably fine, but ask Jon.  The other option is to power them with a battery box and turn off the phantom supply on the preamp/recorder.

[mfrench]

The MMA6000 mic preamp for these mics, and the battery box, both put out 9volts

[Gutbucket]

As mentioned, 9 is the magic number.  Thanks for adding that.

[fmaderjr]

I think all phantom power adapters with mini-jacks are designed to step down the phantom power to the 9 volts or so that mini-mics can use. I got one from Sound Pros that works fine with my DPAs and I'm sure Jon's would as well, but of course he can give the definitive answer.

[headroom]

Here is the Origianal schematic DPA  Phantom PS
The Microdots female i bought from DPA 18$ pair

[Gutbucket]

Found this- passed along to me a while back, reportedly the words of Bruce Myers, DPA N.America on powering DPA 406x:

"The typical range of voltage we recommend is between 4.5V and 9V with
the spec set at 6V. No caution needs to be taken at these levels.
No significant change in specs occurs when varying the voltage. Voltages
below 4.5V are insufficient to power the mic.

However:
It is more about amperage than voltage.
DPA minimic's are actually designed to handle a maximum current
of 7 mA. The incorporated 6.8 kOhm resistors on a standard
P48 V systems limits the current draw to exactly 7 mA.
When calculating the correct series resistor to be utilized with
a minimic, we always consider 1 mA as the normal current draw
in order to supply the mic. satisfactorily. You'll NOT gain any
better performance from the mic. by raising the current up to the
maximum of 7 mA."

[headroom]

I thinks its 0.7 mA current and not 7 mA flowing trough the DPA 40XX mics
Here the official 48 V DPA Schematic

[Nick's Picks]

I had the p48 adapters for my 4071's.  It allowed me to run them directly into my V3. 

[Sam Edwards]

Here is the Origianal schematic DPA  Phantom PS
The Microdots female i bought from DPA 18$ pair

Is there a schematic that we're supposed to be able to see? Maybe I just have the wrong browser...
thanks!
Sam

[headroom]

Here is the Origianal schematic DPA  Phantom PS
The Microdots female i bought from DPA 18$ pair

Is there a schematic that we're supposed to be able to see? Maybe I just have the wrong browser...
thanks!
Sam

Yes here again as jpg not GIF File

[Roger Gustavsson]

This is a battery-box:




This is a passive phantom adapter sending 8.2 V to the capsule:






Roger

[headroom]

This is a battery-box, 9 V to the capsule:

9 Volt Battery Box mesured on the capsule is 3 Volt.
On the 48Volt Schematic is the noise Generator aka Zenerdiode limiting it to 8.2 Volt

[Roger Gustavsson]

Corrected now!

Roger

[bugg100]

Yes, the Niant set works well if you have terminated your 406x's to stereo minijack...  I may have the only set made though.

[acidjack]

The answer is yes.  Don't feed them more than 12v or so.  48v will fry 'em.

I have the "Coresound HEB" version of the 4061s and have obtained a cap for the coresound mini XLR that allows me to run the mics through any battbox via the stereo minijack.

I have a Sound Professionals battery box that provides 12V of plug in power instead of 9V like most of these small battboxes do.  Is it a dumb idea to plug the 4061 into them?  Compared to just obtaining a small/cheap 9V box, frying the 4061s seems like a dumb idea....

[boojum]

The answer is yes.  Don't feed them more than 12v or so.  48v will fry 'em.

I have the "Coresound HEB" version of the 4061s and have obtained a cap for the coresound mini XLR that allows me to run the mics through any battbox via the stereo minijack.

I have a Sound Professionals battery box that provides 12V of plug in power instead of 9V like most of these small battboxes do.  Is it a dumb idea to plug the 4061 into them?  Compared to just obtaining a small/cheap 9V box, frying the 4061s seems like a dumb idea....

Lee (Gutbucket) has all the tech info on this.  IIRC he said DPA sends 8.2 volts to these mics through their XLR connector and does not like to go over 9 volts.  If this is true it would be a very bad idea to send them 12 volts.  I sure would not.

[headroom]

.. and never plug the microphone  without a resistor to the voltage source

[jefflester]

The answer is yes.  Don't feed them more than 12v or so.  48v will fry 'em.

I have the "Coresound HEB" version of the 4061s and have obtained a cap for the coresound mini XLR that allows me to run the mics through any battbox via the stereo minijack.

Where did you get this cap? I've been using HEBs for 12 years going straight to a recorder, but I'm getting a Church CA-UGLY preamp and I was thinking of making just such a cap so I could power the DPAs with that and cut the Core battery box out of the equation.

[jnorman34]

bugg - my 4061s terminate in stereo mini plug.  i got my PFA adapter (stereo mini-jack to XLRs) from jon at naiant, and it supplies 9v to the 4061s.

[listener2]

Hi all, I just ordered a stereo set kit of the DPA 4060 mics.  The picture of the set I ordered shows that they come with the rather big clumsy Microdot to XLR phantom power adapters.  I don't mind having that but I would also be intending to use these mics for stealth style recording where size must be as small and compact as possible.  Therefore I want to be able to screw in the DPA 4060 Microdot connectors into an adapter that will convert the two (stereo pair) of mics into one terminated at a stereo 1/8" mini plug.  So I can then use it with my conventional battery boxes and also directly into my recorders if I want to.  Being new (or soon to own) these DPA 4060 mics, I've only begun searching for info on such adapters and conversions but have not found anyone answering the question satisfactorily!  The closest solution I've found mentioned thus far is to send them in to someone else to have the connectors replaced.  But that is not what I want to do. I want to keep the Microdot plugs on them and still be able to use them with the DPA XLR adapters that come with the stereo kit set.  I can just as well cut off the MicroDot connectors and wire them up to any other "more readily available" connector types I guess, but would rather not.  I will only consider hacking up these expensive mic cables as a last resort.
I cannot believe for as long as these mics have been out and so popular, that no one nor no company has even thought to come out with such a simple "two mono Microdot jack connectors feeding into one 1/8" standard stereo mini plug connector"!  Anyone?  Any company?  DPA themselves don't even make one of these adapters as far as I saw searching on the internet!  Why?

[headroom]

Saercin for u find this:
The MPS6010, MPS6020, MPS6030 and MPS6040 are compact and portable, two-channel power supply boxes for use with all DPA Miniature Microphones. The Its
rugged plastic chassis are fitted with a belt clip and a range of output connectors for various uses. The audio signal is routed directly to the output connectors in full bandwidth and full dynamic range. They draw on one 9V battery and have ultra-low power consumption.
Order numbers:
MPS6001 1-channel, 3-pin XLR
MPS6010 2-channel, 3-pin XLR
MPS6020 2-channel, Phono
MPS6030 2-channel, Mini-jack
MPS6040 2-channel, 1/4 in. Jack

[listener2]

Hi Headroom, I am not sure if that reply was addressing my question speocifically but I assume it was.
I looked at the part MPS6030 you listed and it does perform the function of converting two stereo DPA microdot mic connectors to one stereo mini-plug but it is a battery box and it also is rediculously list priced at around $189.  Not exactly what I was looking for although if I got it for real cheap I wouldn't mind! :-)
I make and have my own battery boxes by the way, so don't need to pay almost $200 to get this one.  I just want to get a set or two of the proper DPA Microdot jacks to install into my own battery box at this point in time OR just two MicroDot jacks that I can wire onto a mic cable into a stereo "Y" adapter into a stereo mini-plug... which can then be pluigged into a conventional mini-jack of a conventional battery box.

Thanks!

[dactylus]

Hi Headroom, I am not sure if that reply was addressing my question speocifically but I assume it was.
I looked at the part MPS6030 you listed and it does perform the function of converting two stereo DPA microdot mic connectors to one stereo mini-plug but it is a battery box and it also is rediculously list priced at around $189.  Not exactly what I was looking for although if I got it for real cheap I wouldn't mind! :-)
I make and have my own battery boxes by the way, so don't need to pay almost $200 to get this one.  I just want to get a set or two of the proper DPA Microdot jacks to install into my own battery box at this point in time OR just two MicroDot jacks that I can wire onto a mic cable into a stereo "Y" adapter into a stereo mini-plug... which can then be pluigged into a conventional mini-jack of a conventional battery box.

Thanks!

You can buy the DPA Microdot jacks directly from DPA.

[listener2]

Hi dactylus, thanks.  I did find that info out recently also reading and searching somewhat more extensively through various forums of the past.  I read that DPA sells them for $20 each.  Dang.
They have a lock on these proprietary connectors it seems and it is very hard to source them as a consumer.  Anyway, I plan on calling DPA if they don't reply to my email I left with them yesterday about it. 
Thank You!

[listener2]

Thanks msHilarious! I was wondering all this time if there was some other part number type name that these so called MicroDot connectors were called by!  This info should help.  I did see Tyco connectors webpages show up when searching for keyword "MicroDot" but could never make any sense out of their very poor specifications presentations and they don't show any good photos of the connectors for me to see if I am ordering the right part.

I saw other mentions that it is difficult to install these Microdot connectors because a special tool is required.  I don't know what is up with that!  DPA/Tyco marketing finance wizards must have planned all this out from the start to lock up the market of these type of connectors proprietary to themselves.  Poor business practice for sure.  I found a seller  listing the MicroDot Installation tool part number "DQA0035 Tool for MicroDot".  They want $320 USA dollars for it! Holy smokes!  If I cannot mount and install the DPA connectors I need without this tool, then what's the use of me even to order two MicroDot jacks directly from DPA at about $20 each, plus $320 for the tool... I could just as well damn near buy a whole new set of mics with the mini connectors I need.

Does anyone know if I really need this "DQA0035 Tool for MicroDot" to install two MicroDot jack connectors in a battery box or just making a Stereo "Y" adapter cable out of them?
If I need the tool, then DPA lost my business for this and I will just cut off the Microdot cables and install my own stereo mini-plugs, all for just a few bucks. Holy smokes! right? yes.
What a shame.

Thank You!

[dactylus]

Chris Church of (CA - Church Audio) on this site can install those for you.  Look in the Retail Section.  Chris is located in Canada.  There may be other folks on this site that can install those connectors for you too but I am not aware of them.  Of course DPA could do it for you.

[listener2]

hi, thanks for suggesting alternative means but I'm already aware of those avenues.  I am a DIY at heart and prefer to do it myself either with the right Microdot parts or if I have to, I will remove the microdot connectors and put my own connectors on the mics.  I will then re-use the microdot connectors on another cable that I will add my mating mini-jacks to and have the best of both worlds.  I am in dialog now with DPA themselves and will see what they have to offer.

I don't want to go the Church Audio route as he has a very long and slow turn around and response time.  I actually have a set of Chris' CA-11 mics on order from ebay... still waiting and he seems to get easily annoyed if you ask him about the order.  Not too comfy feeling. So... never mind.  I will wait.  In the meantime my DPA mics will arrive before the Church Audio mics!

I have a JuicedLink CX231 that I can use my DPA 4060 mic with their DPA XLR adapters to feed my non-XLR recorders and I also have the ridiculously expensive Sony XLR-1 phantom power adapter which I bought for my Sony PCM-D50.  I can use the mics with the XLR adapters that come with the DPA stereo kit.  But I just wanted to be able to reduce the size of the rig I would have to carry around for portable recording sessions using smaller less clumsy mini-plug types.  XLR connectors/adapters are too big and bulky for stealth style recording.  I just want to be able to carry say my Edirol R09 and my home made small 9V battery box with mini-jack/plugs and binaural mics.  Worst case, I will have to carry the big XLR adapters and power units with my little recorders when I go portable.

[Gutbucket]

Replacing the two male microdot ends with a single TRS 3.5mm jack or a mini-xlr is easy enough for the DIYer and commonplace around here (although the center conductor is very thin and can be tricky to handle).  I've done that on a pair of 4060s, wiring them to a neutrik RA plug.

If you want to keep the microdot ends, you can have a seller that has the microdot tools make you a 'Y' cable with whatever connector you want at the other end.  I had Len at Coresound build such a 'Y' cable for me to use with a second pair of 4060s that I didn't want to re-terminate since I somethimes use them seperately and with the DPA microdot extention cables.  Took about a week to make.  RA Neutrik 3.5mm stereo plug on one end and two male microdots with female barrel connectors at the other ends (just like the extention cables). Works great.

[listener2]

I just ordered two MicroDot female connectors from DPA directly so I can mount them in my own battery box.  Case will be solved.

Also if I had to replace the Microdot male plugs originally attached to the DPA 4060 mics cables, I would not remove the connectors themselves but would leave them intact with the cable and just cut off a few inches long from the mic cable.  Then I would use those shortened Microdot cables to solder on any other chosen more compatible connectors that I choose.  This avoids having to need a tool to resolder or reinstall the Microdot plug connectors to a new cable.  Just use the one they are on by cutting off the original mic cable leaving some slack.

Anyway, my case is hopefully over.  As soon as I get my female Microdot jacks, I will build then into a small 9V battery box with high quality components and be done with it.

Thanks all for all your suggestions!

[listener2]

Thanks mshilarious for the info on the part numbers.  I will check them out and submit an RFQ to that distributor just to see how much they are charging for these jacks compared to DPA Microphones Inc, themselves.
I've since received my expensice $20/each DPA microdot jacks from DPA Microphones Inc.  They definitely do over charge for their products and accessories I must say.

I've just assembled my DPA 4060 9Volt powered battery box using the two microdot jacks and have been using it for a couple of test recordings on an Edirol R-09 and on a Sony PCM-D50 recorder.  I basically have used the DPA battery box schematic configuration provided on this forum thread earlier.  Except I used a 33uf Nichicon Audio Quality electrolytic capacitors  instead of the 10ufd capacitor specified, since I did nothave any good quality 10ufd caps left in my parts box.  I just ordered 10 more 10ufd 35v Nichicon audio caps from mouser electronics.  When I get them I will swap out the 33uf cap and put in the 10uf cap and that will be it.
The 33uf cap allows a wee bit too much sub bass boost to leak through in my couple of test recordingings, so I believe that the 10uf cap ought to be just right as DPA specifies in their schematic.  Cheers all!

[listener2]

No, I don't want a bass rolloff.  I just wanted to tame the slight emphasis I heard in my test recordings of some deep bass peakiness I detected.  I have swapped out the 33uf caps with 10uf caps that I found in my parts from Radio Shack no less, and they sound better balanced now.  No over emphasis in the sub bass area that I detected before.  They sound more accurate to what I perceived hearing live vs the recorded version now.  Anyone making the battery box for their DPA 406x mics, use the 10uf capacitor value is my recommendation.  Of course this may vary depending on what device you are using it with and the devices input impedance and response characteristics, however, for my devices (Already mentioned in prev post) I find the 10uf cap value is just about right. 

[listener2]

Yeah, I know what you mean that I may be hearing the differences between the quality of the capacitor components more than the effect of the capacitance value change.  I did switch headphones from the Bose Triports (which has a strong bass output) to my Senheiser HD600 which has a less emphasis in the bass and it sounds much more balanced. 
I used to design and build high end speaker systems and crossover networks years ago...  I know on paper and equations and graphing responses using software shows minor slopes and response changes on paper, but I tell you they make a big audible difference (even a .1 ohm resistor) put in place on a crossover network would be enough to attenuate a spectrum to hear a marked difference when A/B'ing them.  It is just not the one frequency you are attempting to attenuate or un-anttenuate that will change, it is the entire frequency spectrum of energy that changes shape along with the value change (no matter how small it may seem on calculations).  It changes the character of the sound.  Anyway, I did/do hear a difference ever so slightly in favor of less heavy bass with the 10uf capcitor I really believe.  BTW, even though I said it was Radio Shack capacitors, the caps are made by Xicon. I don't think they are that bad for electrolytics (which I prefer sometimes over the more exotic audiophile grade polyester/polystyrene/metalized, whatever caps that sometimes sound too sharp and bright).  I realise also here that we are speaking about low level voltage and higher impedances here when dealing with these low level preamp signals versus high current higher voltage speaker (power amp level) lower impedance realm, but my point is I think it makes a difference.  Thanks!