Topic: Stealthable mikes for UA5>JB3?

[sunjan]

Hi all,

I'm a newbie here, in the sense that I'm just about to shop for my gear.
But I've been taping with low-end gear (minidisc) for years over here in Europe, so I do have a few 100 shows in my archive.
Typical venue setting is small/mid sized club, 2-10 meters from the stage. Mostly loud rock music.

Now I just picked up a JB3, and I've made up my mind about a UA5. Not sure whether digimod will do, or any of the high-end mods.

Now I'm looking for microphones that would suit this combo.
I'd probably go for cards that I would set up in a Kangol, so they need to be reasonably stealthy. I don't feel comfortable with a stand, since in-club security can be quite strict over here, and I'd like to have my hands free for other things (beer, taking snapshots with camera etc).

I'm a bit confused with the whole power/phantom/active cables discussion.
Maybe there's a FAQ that can explain this for dummies like me?!

If I've got a UA5, does it power the mikes? Or  I still need to look for mikes with battery in-body, or additional battery box? I heard that some capsules have the bodies separate, so that I can have them in my bag? Is this the same as active cables?

My budget is about $300-500, Oade offers me a pair of Audix Micro 1245 for $500, which sounds like a good deal to me (they're just 45 mm long, and I rather not go for anything biger than that). Are the 1245s suitable for the UA5, or should I look for something else. Any other gear I need to run this combination?

Many stupid questions, I know... Bear with me, and I'll hopefully reward you with rare shows from over here in a while... =)

Jan
----------
Old rig: Sony ECM 909>Sharp MD 702

[thierryhenry]

UA-5 will provide 48V phantom power, so you're covered, but it isn't very stealthable, it's quite a big box, so if you have stealthy mics what's the point, I think it's unheard of to stealth a UA-5, but I might be wrong. Good luck.

[urobouros]

Stealthing a UA-5?  Anything's possible!  You gotta post pics if you make it work   Check out soundprofessionals.com, they have some great products.

[thierryhenry]

I seriously think stealthing the UA-5 is damn near impossible with one person. Unless you wear a backpack the whole time and keep it in there.

[urobouros]

Aw c'mon, be creative!  "What, that bulge, I'm related to John Holmes."  If you really want to make it work, go to a costume shop and pick up a fat suit.  Many are somewhat hollow with more than enough space to fit a UA-5.  You could also go with the Quasimoto thing and strap it to your back.  Or what about a large novelty hat. 

In all seriouness, stealthing a UA-5 is far more trouble than it would ever be worth.  Between the unit and the battery pack, it's a lot of weight and space.  You're better off looking at the Spasm-2 from sound pros or maybe a sonosax.  I'm by no means the expert on stealth gear.  If I may take a page from Brian's book, check out http://www.taperssection.com/yabbse/index.php?board=14;action=display;threadid=15920 and also do a search for stealth in Rig Pictures.

[pfife]

I stealthed my UA-5 a number of times... but it depends, obviously, on what the security at the door is like.  I just had mine nicely situated in a man-purse.

To answer your original questions:  at minimum, you need to do the "digimod" to the UA-5.  That is necessary to get it to output a digital signal w/o having it hooked up to a computer.

And, as far as mics go, I am selling a set of AT853Rx's that I used to stealth w/ my UA-5 all the time... you will just be able to plug them into the UA-5 and go.  I am asking for the low end of your published range for them and a bunch of accessories:

http://www.taperssection.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=33354.0

The only downside with these is that I thought the plugs/connectors (AT8533's) are a bit big...

PM me if you are interested.

[thierryhenry]

I stealthed my UA-5 a number of times... but it depends, obviously, on what the security at the door is like.  I just had mine nicely situated in a man-purse.

To answer your original questions:  at minimum, you need to do the "digimod" to the UA-5.  That is necessary to get it to output a digital signal w/o having it hooked up to a computer.

And, as far as mics go, I am selling a set of AT853Rx's that I used to stealth w/ my UA-5 all the time... you will just be able to plug them into the UA-5 and go.  I am asking for the low end of your published range for them and a bunch of accessories:

http://www.taperssection.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=33354.0

The only downside with these is that I thought the plugs/connectors (AT8533's) are a bit big...

PM me if you are interested.

But Pfife, once you're in there, how did you get it all setup under "stealth conditions," you had to have put the UA-5 down, and had a stand etc. etc, wouldn't security walking around see that?

[pfife]

I stealthed my UA-5 a number of times... but it depends, obviously, on what the security at the door is like.  I just had mine nicely situated in a man-purse.

To answer your original questions:  at minimum, you need to do the "digimod" to the UA-5.  That is necessary to get it to output a digital signal w/o having it hooked up to a computer.

And, as far as mics go, I am selling a set of AT853Rx's that I used to stealth w/ my UA-5 all the time... you will just be able to plug them into the UA-5 and go.  I am asking for the low end of your published range for them and a bunch of accessories:

http://www.taperssection.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=33354.0

The only downside with these is that I thought the plugs/connectors (AT8533's) are a bit big...

PM me if you are interested.

But Pfife, once you're in there, how did you get it all setup under "stealth conditions," you had to have put the UA-5 down, and had a stand etc. etc, wouldn't security walking around see that?

Go into the bathroom, and clipped the mics to my hat, so no stand.  Have the UA-5 pre-connected, so all Ihave to do is turn it on.  The man purse has a cover, so it blocks out all the lights.  I made some holes in the man purse to run the cables out to the NJB3.

Now, also keep in mind that I don't necessarily tape where there's gestapo security, but I have taped in a number of places where it was specifically prohibited, and announced so over the PA ahead of time.  I've also taped shows where I've seen other people get busted too.

[thierryhenry]

Yeah i see, i See.

[Brian Skalinder]

FWIW, I've stealthed with my V3 in the same fashion as PFife.  But I've also been busted - turned in by an over-zealous fan.  Oh, well.

[thierryhenry]

That's cause you're the shit Brian.

You should have knocked that guy out by the way.

[Brian Skalinder]

You should have knocked that guy out by the way.

I don't think the police officer escorting me would have appreciated me flattening a lady who may or may not have belonged to AARP.   

[pfife]

You should have knocked that guy out by the way.

I don't think the police officer escorting me would have appreciated me flattening a lady who may or may not have belonged to AARP.   

really?  I thought cops were into that kind of thing...

[Brian Skalinder]

really? I thought cops were into that kind of thing...

Only a fairly small percentage, and only if they're on the giving end. 

[urobouros]

I don't think the police officer escorting me would have appreciated me flattening a lady who may or may not have belonged to AARP.   

Cops are so picky about who gets to beat whom 

[urobouros]

Now, also keep in mind that I don't necessarily tape where there's gestapo security, but I have taped in a number of places where it was specifically prohibited, and announced so over the PA ahead of time.  I've also taped shows where I've seen other people get busted too.

I love the recordings with the "no recording devices" announcements. 

[sunjan]

In all seriouness, stealthing a UA-5 is far more trouble than it would ever be worth.  Between the unit and the battery pack, it's a lot of weight and space.  You're better off looking at the Spasm-2 from sound pros or maybe a sonosax.

Thanks a lot for the input. n my specific case, I'm not too concerned about getting things through the door. Door security and in-club security are two different things altogether here in Stockholm.
What I usually do is call in and get a photo pass beforehand. That is usually no problem with smaller clubs, since I contribute with pics for an online magazine.
So i just drop my rig in the camera bag, put in a fake double bottom, and the snap-n-shoot on top of it. When the bouncers open it, they don't bother fussing  with me. But once inside, a photo pass won't save me if in caught red-handed holding a stand. That's why I want mikes small enough to clip on or hide inside a Kangol (frame mounted, as the great DIY example in the rig pics).

So can we get back on topic? If the UA5 provides 48V power - do I still need bodies to the mikes? Or is there any way I could just connect the caps to the cables, and plug it straight into the UA5??? Where do the active cables come in - or are they not necessary at all with a UA5?

+T's all over to you guys if I'd figure out how to do it (maybe I'm not authorized yet, I need to post more first?!)

/Jan

[JAH]

FWIW, I've stealthed with my V3 in the same fashion as PFife.  But I've also been busted - turned in by an over-zealous fan.  Oh, well.

I've stealthed w/ a mics>148>sbm>d7 and mics>MME>D7 before 

[pfife]

You'll need bodies unless you get smaller mics...

[urobouros]

So can we get back on topic? If the UA5 provides 48V power - do I still need bodies to the mikes? Or is there any way I could just connect the caps to the cables, and plug it straight into the UA5??? Where do the active cables come in - or are they not necessary at all with a UA5?

Certain caps are active and others are not.  I don't know anything about actives myself, but search on the mic forum and the archive.  You'll find more than you ever wanted to know.

[sunjan]

You'll need bodies unless you get smaller mics...

OK, looking into the archive, this post made a lot of sense to me:
http://www.taperssection.com/yabbse/index.php?board=3;action=display;threadid=15247
The only thing that puzzles me in the pictures here is the Y-cable for 2xXLR->1x iniplug. That shouldn't really be required for plugging into a UA5? Or is the Y-cable just an optional, when you want to bypass the UA5 altogether, or plug into some other gear?

So in my case, I figure phantom powered mikes are the way to go for UA5!
I'd be looking for microphones that come with XLR connectors, but I guess most do, anyway.
But can someone explain to me what the mic bodies "do" in this setup, to a technical moron like me?

Thanks again for your patience!

[urobouros]

OK, looking into the archive, this post made a lot of sense to me:
http://www.taperssection.com/yabbse/index.php?board=3;action=display;threadid=15247
The only thing that puzzles me in the pictures here is the Y-cable for 2xXLR->1x iniplug. That shouldn't really be required for plugging into a UA5? Or is the Y-cable just an optional, when you want to bypass the UA5 altogether, or plug into some other gear?

So in my case, I figure phantom powered mikes are the way to go for UA5!
I'd be looking for microphones that come with XLR connectors, but I guess most do, anyway.
But can someone explain to me what the mic bodies "do" in this setup, to a technical moron like me?

Thanks again for your patience!

The Y-cable is for using the mics with a batt box, not with the UA-5.  As far as what the mic bodies do, I can't help you there.

[Brian Skalinder]

Check out this brand spanking new post:

http://www.taperssection.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=33658.0

You can discount the Sound Pros mics listed b/c (I think) they're basically the caps from the AT853Rx's modified to run on 9v battery power instead of 48v phantom power.  Looks like the only mics in your price range for stealthing - other than the Audix Micro 1245 (which I forgot to add) - are the AT853Rx.  Not a lot of inexpensive stealth options - stealth mics are expensive, unfortunately!

[sunjan]

Check out this brand spanking new post:

http://www.taperssection.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=33658.0

You can discount the Sound Pros mics listed b/c (I think) they're basically the caps from the AT853Rx's modified to run on 9v battery power instead of 48v phantom power.  Looks like the only mics in your price range for stealthing - other than the Audix Micro 1245 (which I forgot to add) - are the AT853Rx.  Not a lot of inexpensive stealth options - stealth mics are expensive, unfortunately!

Brilliant guide, Brian!

In the mic section, what is your criteria for stealthable? Any cap+body less than 100 mm? Or more like 50 mm?
The 1245s are 45mm long, so they would squeeze in. How big are the ATs?

Between the 1245s and the AT853Rx, what would you guys go for?

Thanks,

Jan

PS. I was just wondering, is there any particular reason you left out Core Sounds and SP from the shopping list? Or are there just too many retailers to list them all!?

[sunjan]

Check out this brand spanking new post:

http://www.taperssection.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=33658.0

You can discount the Sound Pros mics listed b/c (I think) they're basically the caps from the AT853Rx's modified to run on 9v battery power instead of 48v phantom power.  Looks like the only mics in your price range for stealthing - other than the Audix Micro 1245 (which I forgot to add) - are the AT853Rx.  Not a lot of inexpensive stealth options - stealth mics are expensive, unfortunately!

In the mic section, what is your criteria for stealthable? Any cap+body less than 100 mm? Or more like 50 mm?
The 1245s are 45mm long, so they would squeeze in. How big are the ATs?

I found the answer to my own question in the spec sheet on AT's web: the AT853Rx is 35.2 mm, definitely stealthable!

Jan

[Brian Skalinder]

In the mic section, what is your criteria for stealthable? Any cap+body less than 100 mm? Or more like 50 mm?

Uhmmmm...nothing so specific, just whether or not it seems people actively use them for stealth activity.

I was just wondering, is there any particular reason you left out Core Sounds and SP from the shopping list? Or are there just too many retailers to list them all!?

There's some Sound Pros stuff in there - mics and battery box (w/ or w/o gain / bass rolloff).  I just didn't think of Core-Sound (oops, how did I ever forget them?).    And, on second thought, I ougta include Giant Squid and a couple other very inexpensive options.  Thanks for the heads up!

[KingReptile]

What ya guys think At 853s or Audix Micros 1245?? I have been kicking it around getting a set of cards myself..I currently run Dpa 4061s now but am looking at running 2 rigs at some shows...

[Brian Skalinder]

What ya guys think At 853s or Audix Micros 1245?? I have been kicking it around getting a set of cards myself..I currently run Dpa 4061s now but am looking at running 2 rigs at some shows...

I've not heard enough of the 1245s, but the swappable caps on the AT853s are awfully appealing - inexpensive way to add hypers, sub-cards, cards, etc. to the arsenal.

[sunjan]

What ya guys think At 853s or Audix Micros 1245?? I have been kicking it around getting a set of cards myself..I currently run Dpa 4061s now but am looking at running 2 rigs at some shows...

I've not heard enough of the 1245s, but the swappable caps on the AT853s are awfully appealing - inexpensive way to add hypers, sub-cards, cards, etc. to the arsenal.

Are the sub-cards closer to omnis (ie more forgiving for movements)?
I was toying with the idea of getting an omni set too (for upfront, small club gigs). But perhaps it's better to get a separate set of omnis rather than replacable caps - I understand that there are more options of stealthable omnis, somehow it's easier to make them small?!

Jan

[sunjan]

In the mic section, what is your criteria for stealthable? Any cap+body less than 100 mm? Or more like 50 mm?

Uhmmmm...nothing so specific, just whether or not it seems people actively use them for stealth activity.

I was just wondering, is there any particular reason you left out Core Sounds and SP from the shopping list? Or are there just too many retailers to list them all!?

There's some Sound Pros stuff in there - mics and battery box (w/ or w/o gain / bass rolloff).  I just didn't think of Core-Sound (oops, how did I ever forget them?).    And, on second thought, I ougta include Giant Squid and a couple other very inexpensive options.  Thanks for the heads up!

BTW, Brian. Should we post suggestions/additions to your shopping guide privately instead? I noticed the reply-function is disabled in that part of the forum. I noticed the Core Sounds 2496 is conspicuosly missing... etc etc. How would you like to have the feedback?

[Sanjay]

Look into the Sound Devices MP-2/Mixpre, or Shure FP-24, all basically the same thing.  Instead of the UA-5 because it will fit into the palm of your hand.  Only problem is you have to run line in into your jb3.   For mics lookinto the audix 1290's instead of the 1245's better freq response IMO.  Or grab pfife's at853's, those are what I am using right now.

[pfife]

I might be biased since I am selling AT's, but here's my response.

First, good luck finding those Audix's used.  New they are pretty expensive (I think Full Compass had them for sale for around $400/each or so.. but check to make sure!).  I know Sirchek has had "Sell me your audixs"in his sig for quite a while.

I think the Audix's are stealthable, totally.  I've seen Ed's up close, and to me, they looked about the size of a really fat cigarette.  A few people have added pics of a Kangol hat modified to run them ho's in DIN somewhere- that was pretty cool!  Maybe Ed will chime in with his opinions, but I know John Kelly really digs his Audix's... other Audix mics I've used in multitracking situations have sounded really good too.

About the AT853Rx's, many people say they are great mics for the $.  I liked them a lot...  just wanted to downsize all my stuff for stealthing.  They are versatile too.  Depending on the model of Audix (and how old they are) they don't have switchable caps.

[thierryhenry]

Yeah buy Pfife's AT853Rx's with his various caps, a real nice deal for starter mics. Good luck..

[Brian Skalinder]

BTW, Brian. Should we post suggestions/additions to your shopping guide privately instead? I noticed the reply-function is disabled in that part of the forum. I noticed the Core Sounds 2496 is conspicuosly missing... etc etc. How would you like to have the feedback?

Yeah, just drop me a PM.  So far, I plan on adding:

Core-Sound gear (and will keep my personal opinions to myself)
Audix mics (several flavors)
a handful of higher end pres/ADCs/recorders
Josephson mics

[spyder9]

Yeah buy Pfife's AT853Rx's with his various caps, a real nice deal for starter mics. Good luck..

They are not starter mics.  They are the best bang for the dollar. 

[thierryhenry]

True, but compared to the TOP DAWG MICS we hear about, they are more suited for a starter. Just cause they are for a starter doesn't mean they are shitte by any means, I love the 8's.