Topic: Zoom & Tascam Live Mixer/Recorder Units (any experience out there?)

[billydee]

Hey all.
I'm looking for something new for a couple festivals I archive and stream for. To date I've done fine grabbing four channels (sbd/mics) with my Tascam DR-701D and sending the mixed feed out to the radio station's portable Comrex unit via the 1/8" stereo mini jack line level output.

Ultimately I want to grab 6 channels (4 mics and sbd) via XLR inputs (w phantom power) and also connect to the Comrex for streaming via XLR cables. I have all the space I need and AC power to setup behind monitor world so I don't really need a battery option for this kind of situation. In looking around I see some potential options for what I need but don't know much other than what the reviews state and my limited understanding of the specs.

So any thoughts (pro or con) on the units I'm considering (or others you know of) linked below are much appreciated. My main concern would be the quality/dependability of the SD card recording function and the mic preamps.
Thanks


TASCAM Model 12 Mixer / Interface / Recorder / Controller
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/Model12--tascam-model-12-mixer-interface-recorder-controller

Zoom LiveTrak L-12 12-channel Digital Mixer / Recorder
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/L12--zoom-livetrak-l-12-12-channel-digital-mixer-recorder

Zoom LiveTrak L-8 8-channel Digital Mixer / Recorder
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/L8--zoom-livetrak-l-8-8-channel-digital-mixer-recorder

[morst]

are you trying to both stream a 2-channel mix and also record multi channel?

[billydee]

are you trying to both stream a 2-channel mix and also record multi channel?

We only stream some of the acts and the DR-701D 2 channel Live Mix feature works well for that, assuming I set it up correctly beforehand. I also want to record two pairs of mics (one at FOH and one onstage) and the board feed to work on later. Previously I could only record one set of mics and the board feed.

I've considered the SD MixPre 6 or 10 but they don't offer the XLR outputs I want and I don't need the portability.

[goodcooker]

I took a long look at a couple of these earlier this year. Went down to the big box guitar store and fooled around with the Zoom mixers. They seemed like what they are - low cost small format mixers with a recorder built in. Sounded fine though and the headphone amp was okay although I don't know if it would be totally adequate for mixing in a live environment.

I ended up going in a different (much cheaper) direction.

The Zoom Livetrak L8 seems like it would check all your boxes.

[morst]

are you trying to both stream a 2-channel mix and also record multi channel?

We only stream some of the acts and the DR-701D 2 channel Live Mix feature works well for that, assuming I set it up correctly beforehand. I also want to record two pairs of mics (one at FOH and one onstage) and the board feed to work on later. Previously I could only record one set of mics and the board feed.

I've considered the SD MixPre 6 or 10 but they don't offer the XLR outputs I want and I don't need the portability.

I'll take that as a YES.


You sure you can't get by with the mini-out on the MixPre, or perhaps a USB output?

[GLouie]

A MixPre10 just needs TA3 to XLR output adapter cables, but it's not exactly in the same product category or price. If you already had one, it would certainly do as you say, but for cost and convenient physical controls, it sounds like you'd be better off with the others.

[billydee]

A MixPre10 just needs TA3 to XLR output adapter cables, but it's not exactly in the same product category or price. If you already had one, it would certainly do as you say, but for cost and convenient physical controls, it sounds like you'd be better off with the others.

I hadn't realized that fact about the MixPre10, thanks for the info.
And yes, I'm not looking to spend that much money in this scenario.

[billydee]

I took a long look at a couple of these earlier this year. Went down to the big box guitar store and fooled around with the Zoom mixers. They seemed like what they are - low cost small format mixers with a recorder built in. Sounded fine though and the headphone amp was okay although I don't know if it would be totally adequate for mixing in a live environment.

I ended up going in a different (much cheaper) direction.

The Zoom Livetrak L8 seems like it would check all your boxes.

Thanks for your thoughts on this. I hadn't thought much about the headphone amp so that's a little bit of a consideration. Assuming it's as good as the DR-701D it would be fine. Plus I don't plan to really "mix" much in the live environment. I'd set it up once for the acts we do stream and just go with that.

[billydee]

are you trying to both stream a 2-channel mix and also record multi channel?

We only stream some of the acts and the DR-701D 2 channel Live Mix feature works well for that, assuming I set it up correctly beforehand. I also want to record two pairs of mics (one at FOH and one onstage) and the board feed to work on later. Previously I could only record one set of mics and the board feed.

I've considered the SD MixPre 6 or 10 but they don't offer the XLR outputs I want and I don't need the portability.

I'll take that as a YES.


You sure you can't get by with the mini-out on the MixPre, or perhaps a USB output?

Hey morst. Sorry for the long winded answer to your very simple question! 
So yes I could get by with a mini-out and have two MixPre 6 recorders available from local friends if I needed to borrow them. I'm just real curious about these other kinds of mixer/recorders and am ready to start playing around with a new toy in the new year.

[billydee]

Another feature I'd not originally considered but would need in this case is the ability to put a specific amount of delay on at least one input feeding the recorders output 9for streaming). I'm currently able to do that with the Tascam DR-701D by adding delay to the soundboard feed keeping the sbd/mics LiveMix output in sync. Unfortunately I don't see that feature listed on any of the mixer/recorders I'm considering.

If the MixPre series had a better range on it's delay function that would be a reason to relook at those. But from what I understand the amount of that delay is limited to 30ms on both the 6 and the 10.
Oh well, back to the drawing board!

[GLouie]

On a MixPre10ii, individual inputs have up to 30mS delay available, but the L/R outputs have up to 400mS delay.

[billydee]

On a MixPre10ii, individual inputs have up to 30mS delay available, but the L/R outputs have up to 400mS delay.

I would need at least 50 if not 60 mS delay on my inputs to do what I'd like. Thanks for that info.

[billydee]

Doesn't seem to be much positive feedback or any experience at all with these Tascam/Zoom combo mixer/recorders, so I think I'm gonna move on and settle for a Zoom F8n Pro, which appears to meet most of my criteria at a bit more cost.

Thanks to those who have chimed in here.

[mepaca]

I have the Livetrak L-12 and also the F8 with optional mixing board. I usually use the L-12 unless I need battery power. I have done live sound and recorded at the same time with it. It has worked flawlessly and sounds great. I have used all 12 channels with 2 SD mixpre preamps and also used the built in DIs Fire away with any questions.

[billydee]

I have the Livetrak L-12 and also the F8 with optional mixing board. I usually use the L-12 unless I need battery power. I have done live sound and recorded at the same time with it. It has worked flawlessly and sounds great. I have used all 12 channels with 2 SD mixpre preamps and also used the built in DIs Fire away with any questions.

First set of questions.
Question 1 for the L12- Can 50-60 milliseconds of delay be added to two inputs (a stereo soundboard feed), and that slightly delayed signal mixed (or is linked the correct terminology?) with a pair of mic inputs, and those four channels (now more or less in sync) sent to the XLR outputs for a live stream feed?

Question 2 for the F8- Same exact question, except the outputs would be the F8 TA3 outputs adapted to XLRs. (I should state that I'd be buying the F8n Pro at this point)

Thanks!

[Gutbucket]

Legacy F8 has a maximum per/channel input delay of 30ms. Not sure if the current F8Npro is the same.

A less than ideal solution, but possible to loop aux out into another pair of inputs to add an additional 30ms, at the cost of the additional A/D/A conversion, patch cable, and the loss of two of the eight inputs.

[billydee]

Legacy F8 has a maximum per/channel input delay of 30ms. Not sure if the current F8Npro is the same.

A less than ideal solution, but possible to loop aux out into another pair of inputs to add an additional 30ms, at the cost of the additional A/D/A conversion, patch cable, and the loss of two of the eight inputs.

Apparently the F8Npro has the same input delay spec per the Factory Sound website that came up in my online search.

I appreciate your thoughts on a potential workaround, but I'm really trying to keep all of this as simple as possible, and that solution feels like a bit too much. I find it both frustrating and interesting that both the Zoom F8 series, the F6 and at least some of SD MixPre recorders have a maximum 30ms delay.

Now if I could only find a way to get my FOH mics positioned 50% closer to the PA, I'd be golden. But that's not super likely in 2 of the 4 situations I encounter.

[capnhook]

Legacy F8 has a maximum per/channel input delay of 30ms. Not sure if the current F8Npro is the same.

A less than ideal solution, but possible to loop aux out into another pair of inputs to add an additional 30ms, at the cost of the additional A/D/A conversion, patch cable, and the loss of two of the eight inputs.

Apparently the F8Npro has the same input delay spec per the Factory Sound website that came up in my online search.

I appreciate your thoughts on a potential workaround, but I'm really trying to keep all of this as simple as possible, and that solution feels like a bit too much. I find it both frustrating and interesting that both the Zoom F8 series, the F6 and at least some of SD MixPre recorders have a maximum 30ms delay.

Now if I could only find a way to get my FOH mics positioned 50% closer to the PA, I'd be golden. But that's not super likely in 2 of the 4 situations I encounter.

Always been pining for a 6-channel machine, with at least 100mS delay.  Manufacturers are missing the boat.

[voltronic]

You can always add as much delay as you want in post.

[capnhook]

You can always add as much delay as you want in post.

I was referring to having enough delay for a live matrix, like what billydee is asking for.  30 mS isn't enough for our use.

[voltronic]

You can always add as much delay as you want in post.

I was referring to having enough delay for a live matrix, like what billydee is asking for.  30 mS isn't enough for our use.

I had missed the live streaming part of this.

[billydee]

I decided to grab the Zoom LiveTrak L12 L8 in spite of the input delay limitation. I feel I can make this unit work well for me when recording in an official capacity. That is, after I learn how to use it. 
Thanks mepaca and everyone else for chiming in with their thoughts and advice.
Wish me luck!

[morst]

I decided to grab the Zoom LiveTrak L12 in spite of the input delay limitation. I feel I can make this unit work well for me when recording in an official capacity. That is, after I learn how to use it. 
Thanks mepaca and everyone else for chiming in with their thoughts and advice.
Wish me luck!

gear is fun! You can always get a standalone outboard delay unit!


 

[capnhook]

I decided to grab the Zoom LiveTrak L12 in spite of the input delay limitation. I feel I can make this unit work well for me when recording in an official capacity. That is, after I learn how to use it. 
Thanks mepaca and everyone else for chiming in with their thoughts and advice.
Wish me luck!

gear is fun! You can always get a standalone outboard delay unit!


 

Here's the lowest-priced unit I found that could be portable, any more of them out there?


https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1721381-REG/vanco_pa_ads1_audio_delay_synchronizer.html/overview


20-340mS delay in 20mS steps, not too optimal for our use....bah

[morst]

I was thinking more like a 19" rack unit.
Here's a used TC multi-effects processor, with stereo XLR in and out... $175 but shipping is $40 from florida USA
https://reverb.com/item/66077380-tc-electronic-m-one-xl-24-bit-dual-engine-effects-processor?
https://www.tcelectronic.com/product.html?modelCode=P0CJT
I would have thought that those old things would be cheaper now, but even a Yamaha SPX-90 goes for money?

Anyone got old PA gear sitting around? I guess it held its value!?