Topic: Help with Recorder purchase

[Jacklaster]

I'm now heavily leaning toward the Zoom H4n.

Anything I should know before I take the plunge? I've read mixed reviews, but the 4-channel option is just too sweet to pass up!

[Dede2002]

I just ordered the new Tascam DR100 and should have it next week.  I think it is worth a look once it comes out.  It is small, around $400 and (hopefully) makes a good recording without any major issues.

That one should be a great recorder. As a R-09HR/1/8" plug  user, I don't know much about XLR inputs.
Sorry about my lack of knowledge, but I'm assuming that running the XLR inputs allows the taper to use better mics with better sound quality as opposed to run mic>bb>Line input. Am I correct?

Thanks in advance

Yes, well ... at least more options.

I'd be curious as to how well its internal mics work. It says it has both omni and cardioid mics. The cards are obvious but the omnis are just two small holes in the case. Maybe that's ok, I dunno.

Thanks for the info 

[flintstone]

"...I would like mini-TOSLINK...
...I need controls over both the left and right channels independently...
...and also a device that will record for at least 6 hours in 96/24."

Sony PCM-D50 has #1 and #3
Marantz PMD661 has #1 and #2, and adds XLR mic inputs with phantom power
Zoom H4n has XLR, but meets none of the stated needs
Tascam DR-100 has #2, and XLR inputs. Battery life should be known in a week or so.

Flintstone

[sunjan]

Typically- Rock concert SBD patches. 96/24, and editing on a mac.

I need controls over both the left and right channels independently and also a device that will record for at least 6 hours in 96/24.

And most importantly, it has to be sturdy and RELIABLE.

Sturdy and stealthy are two contrasting opposites. Since you're going for soundboard patches, I assume that you can bring in gear openly. Why go for handhelds, when there's more durable gear within your budget?!
Think FR2-LE...

You can hook up pretty much all recorders we use with an external battery pack, so powering shouldn't be a problem. Regarding your 6hr runtime spec, I guess this is mainly a storage requirement?
If you strike out 96kHz from your want list it would make more sense. Stuffing a flash memory with zeroes doesn't make a better recording, unless you have a very specific reason needing it. Search the forum here for more opinions on this...

[Jacklaster]

Thanks for all the input... As to the last reply from sunjan- I never mentioned that I needed it to be stealthy. I would however like it to be portable. As for the 24/96 comparing that to stuffing in a bunch of extra 0's... I don't believe that for one second. I want the extra resolution, and so should anyone else who knows the difference. Granted, some people can't tell the difference, but I like having my master file be as high of a resolution as possible for editing and archiving. So sue me.

I'm a video producer and the majority of my stuff ends up in SD, but I shoot and cut everything in HD. Why? Because it looks better. Audio recording is the same way. Record in the highest quality you can, then convert to whatever you prefer or require.

[Gutbucket]

Do you capture the ultraviolet light portion of the spectrum in your HD videos?

[rastasean]

I'm a video producer and the majority of my stuff ends up in SD, but I shoot and cut everything in HD. Why? Because it looks better. Audio recording is the same way. Record in the highest quality you can, then convert to whatever you prefer or require.

HD video doesn't improve the content of what you're shooting...

I guess this is why we have Blu Ray music CDs now...

[notlance]

As for the 24/96 comparing that to stuffing in a bunch of extra 0's... I don't believe that for one second. I want the extra resolution, and so should anyone else who knows the difference. Granted, some people can't tell the difference, but I like having my master file be as high of a resolution as possible for editing and archiving. So sue me.

I'm a video producer and the majority of my stuff ends up in SD, but I shoot and cut everything in HD. Why? Because it looks better. Audio recording is the same way. Record in the highest quality you can, then convert to whatever you prefer or require.

So maybe you should buy a Sound Devices 702 or 722 or 744T recorder.  Besides being very nice recorders, any of them can record 24/192, and the 744T can do it in four channels.  24/192 should be twice as good as 24/96, right?

[mark_ivan]

I have been 'user testing' a D50 for the last four weeks (Sony Store has a 30 day return policy), here are my observations

Pro
Sturdier build than many other handhelds
Ridiculously long battery life
Great display, fast VU meters with peak indicators
Intuitive and easy to access interface
Pre Record buffer(didn't use this though, and using it without a remote might result in an audible click when you actively start the recording)
A-B mark looping
Digital Pitch Control
Interesting limiter, but didn't spend too much time testing it
Easy file splitting
Clean high gain preamps
Sensitive and detailed internal mics with very good sound
Headphone amp has excellent sound
Digital input
Big but still pocket sized


Con
Non Robust 1/8" connectors (although the headphone and mic inputs are beefier than the rest)
No phantom power or XLR
Internal mics sound 'bright' (take phones on and off while monitoring recording, big difference in sound)
Internal mics VERY sensitive to wind or even recorder movement and handling noise
Memory stick (not a huge problem)
No mp3 recording for quick and dirty files without having to convert later
No separate gain controls for L/R

Took the D50 back to the Sony store today, felt queasy afterwards.

I had a FR2LE out over the same time, overall, it is much more primitive, and somewhat larger (no sticking this in your pocket). It doesn't come close to many of the 'pros' of the D50, but it sounded equal with much and slightly better with some of the material I recorded. The most a/b'ing I did was with recordings I made with a rented pair of Rode NT1A's in front of my relatively high end stereo system. Not the ultimate test I am sure, but to compare 'voices' of the two recorders with a consistently repeatable source, it seemed instructive. The D50 sounded great, but the FR2LE just sounded a bit more dynamic and open. I need to make the decision to keep the FR2LE, or keep lookng, over the next few days.

No experience with the R09HR or the Zoom, but wanted to share my thoughts on the D50.

[sunjan]

...unless you have a very specific reason needing it.

As for the 24/96 comparing that to stuffing in a bunch of extra 0's... I don't believe that for one second. I want the extra resolution, and so should anyone else who knows the difference. Granted, some people can't tell the difference, but I like having my master file be as high of a resolution as possible for editing and archiving. So sue me.

Record in the highest quality you can, then convert to whatever you prefer or require.

So you have a very specific reason. Fair enough, I'm not going to question that.

But it's just hard to take you seriously, when you're aiming to "record in the highest quality you can", and mention looking at Zoom H4 in your initial posting.
When shopping for gear, there are always tradeoffs. One recorder might have 96kHz, but no good internals (FR-2 LE). Another recorder has both, but is a bit less sturdy (DR-100). A third recorder has all of that, but no L/R adjustable gain (D50).

Personally, I can think of twenty features that are more important than 96kHz, to get a "high quality recording". If you ask most tapers here, 96kHz comes low on the priority list. To each and one his own...

[Brian Skalinder]

One recorder might have 96kHz, but no good internals (FR-2 LE).

The FR2LE's internals are no good?  That's news to me.

[JasonSobel]

One recorder might have 96kHz, but no good internals (FR-2 LE).

The FR2LE's internals are no good?  That's news to me.

I think sunjan was talking about internal mics attached to the deck.

Anyway, recording for 6 hours at 24/96 will require at least 12gb of storage. (stereo 24/96 is ~2gigs/hour).
With the Fostex FR-2LE, the deck stops when it gets to 4gb.  So that's 2 hours of continuous run-time at 24/96.  Of course, you can use a large flash-card and just hit record again to start a new file, but it's something you need to think about... you can't just get it going at 24/96 and then come back to the deck in 6 hours.

I think another deck you should consider is the Marantz PMD-661.  It's got a lot of different inputs (XLR line-in or XLR mic in w/ phantom, 1/8" line in, and S/PDIF with an RCA connector), and therefore provides a lot of flexibility.  It's a small deck (not as small as the handhelds, but not large by any means), and feels very sturdy and durable.  and if you use a 16gb SDHC card, it'll go for ~8 hours at 24/96, with autosplits either at a specified time, or when the file hits 4gb.

[Brian Skalinder]

Thanks for the clarifying perspective, Jason.  I didn't realize the FR2LE stops at 4GB and requires a manual start of a new file.  Is it seamless?

[JasonSobel]

Thanks for the clarifying perspective, Jason.  I didn't realize the FR2LE stops at 4GB and requires a manual start of a new file.  Is it seamless?

no, because the FR-2LE requires a manual re-start after the recorded file gets to 4gb, it is not a seamless transition from one file to the next.  Personally, I've only used the FR-2LE once, and for me, it was about a 15 minute gap of lost music between the files... But that's really a story for another thread.  As long as you know that the deck won't automatically start a new file when the 4gb size is reached, you can probably plan for it and stop and restart the deck at a convenient point in time (crowd noise between songs, for example).  But it's something you need to plan for.

And while I'm writing another reply, I'll mention the PMD-661 again.  I might be biased because I own one, but I honestly think that it is the deck with the best features...  it's just a very verstile deck that can be effective in many different situations.

[Brian Skalinder]

no, because the FR-2LE requires a manual re-start after the recorded file gets to 4gb, it is not a seamless transition from one file to the next.

What an odd implementation.  Probably not an issue for me, because I record at 24/44 or 24/48, and those rare occasions I run 24/96 don't go for more than 2 hours at a stretch.  Looks like I have more homework to do on both the FR2LE and PMD 661.  Thanks, Jason.