Topic: Newbie D8 Questions

[greensparrow]

I used a modest setup of a Sony Stereo Mic that I plug directly into my D8.
I have tried it a couple times with mixed results, the biggest problem is the levels are
too low.

Pardon the newbness, but what is the difference between line in and mic in?
Do I want to use mic in? Line in won't allow any adjustments?  I was using mic in and
trying to adjust from there.

I am taping in small bar if that helps.

Also, how can I monitor to see if my levels are OK?
Can I just plug in headphones?

The couple outings I had so far I did not monitor the recording and got home to
find low levels.

After patching a bunch of times at Phish and the like, I thought the levels should
hover around the bLack zero in the middle, but I guess that is because I am getting
excellent signal from the real rig.

Any tips appreciated!

[DaveH]

What kind of Sony mic are you using? I'm not too experienced on DAT recordings, but I do recall hearing some of the Sony mics (ECM-MS907 for example) has a low level for recording. I'm sure others here will chime in, but I hope that's a starting point.

[greensparrow]

Yes, that is it, The single point Stereo One, I am also using it @ 90 degrees,
not sure what those setting are for.

Thanks for your input!

I am taping a loud punk band, perhaps I should just use line in?

[DaveH]

If it is a loud punk band, you should be alright. I just remember reading some people complaining about the Sony mic picking up poorly on low to moderately loud shows. You can also consider upgrading the mics. (I'm not one to talk, I have a pair of Giant Squid Omnis, which are known as Budget mics, but I'm fairly happy with them. I think it all comes down to personal preference.)

[fmaderjr]

NOOOOOOO! Don't get the Giant Squids no matter how cheap they are. They are so so mics at best.

Spend a little more for one of the Church Audio products. They are excellent mics at a very low price considering the quality you get. I don't think a D8's plug in power will power most of the Church products satisfactorily though. You would need to add a battery box to power them, which Church Audio also makes.

Chris Church can tell you if you need a battery box for whichever mic you select.

[darktrain]

NOOOOOOO! Don't get the Giant Squids no matter how cheap they are. They are so so mics at best.

Spend a little more for one of the Church Audio products. They are excellent mics at a very low price considering the quality you get. I don't think a D8's plug in power will power most of the Church products satisfactorily though. You would need to add a battery box to power them, which Church Audio also makes.

Chris Church can tell you if you need a battery box for whichever mic you select.

Agreed, had the Giant Squids and after upgrading realized what everyone was talking about, in fact the first set i got had to be sent back because of a issue , I would move on to virtually any other mic than those, you can find nice sets for under 100.00 very easily

[DSatz]

greensparrow, when you connect the kind of microphone you have, you would use the mike input, not the line input. Since you asked: The line input is affected by the record level control, just as the mike input is, provided that you have the "REC MODE" switch set to "MANUAL" (which means "the user, not the recorder, is responsible for setting the recording levels").

But the mike input is also affected by the setting of the "MIC SENS" switch that's immediately to the right of the mike socket. If the switch is set to "L" and you can't get enough level on the meters, try setting the switch to "H" instead.

Note that the meters on the TCD-D8 are driven by its analog circuitry, and they aren't completely precise in responding to brief signal peaks. If you see the "OVER" indicators light up (which are driven by the digital circuitry and are precise), it's important to back off the levels a little, even if the meters aren't reaching 0 dB. I've seen situations where the meters showed levels of -5 but the "OVER" indicators came on.

If on the other (third?) hand you find yourself turning the record level control down to, say, 3-1/2 or below, then if you were using the "H" setting of the "MIC SENS" switch it's time to switch it to "L" and raise the record level control--because otherwise, you'll overload the inputs of the mike preamps in the recorder.

I hope this makes some sense--it's definitely a little confusing at first.

--best regards

[fmaderjr]

DSatz' advice, as always, is on point on how to give yourself the best shot at getting a good recording with the equipment you have.

I would still suggest upgrading your mic, getting a battery box, and probably going line-in instead of mic-in.

In any event, the D7/D8/D100 were all incredibly susceptible to brick wall distortion when recording loud concerts mic in, and I think most successful tapers eventually went battery box or preamp > line in with them (or got the Oade mic preamp mod). Greensparrow's Sony MS907 is designed so you can usually use it mic in on those decks without distortion partly, I presume, because of it's poor bass response.

I recommend getting a better mic, like one of the Church Audios, in which case you will need to get a battery box to power it and may find you need to go line in to prevent distortion. You may be able to go mic in with Church Audio products, however, because they are designed not to have a very high output (unlike the AT853's which distorted like hell when I used them mic in with my D100). You would still need a battery box going mic in, I think, because I think Church Audio products require more plug in power than the D8 provides.

[greensparrow]

Thank you all for the input. I do plan on upgrading mics when I get
some cash.

But I do like the tips given so far.
I have a follow up question:

Can I just use headphones and listen to the signal on the tape?
For lack of a better description, when I used to copy analog Dead tapes
on my Denon 3 head, there was an option to "monitor" the levels
on the new tape. This way I was sure it was perfect.

How can I be sure the levels are acceptable, rather than finding out at home , later...

Thanks for all of the helpful advice!

[DSatz]

greensparrow, I don't know of any portable DAT recorder with a "confidence head." Only a few DAT recorders have ever been made which could actually play back from the tape while you were recording. The segmented, helical scan recording method used in DATs (as with most videotape formats) makes it very difficult and expensive to arrange for a second head to follow behind the record head, while still contacting the same piece of tape that the record head just cut across. (DAT tracks aren't "longitudinal" the way cassette tracks are.)

--best regards

[Roving Sign]

Thank you all for the input. I do plan on upgrading mics when I get
some cash.

But I do like the tips given so far.
I have a follow up question:

Can I just use headphones and listen to the signal on the tape?
For lack of a better description, when I used to copy analog Dead tapes
on my Denon 3 head, there was an option to "monitor" the levels
on the new tape. This way I was sure it was perfect.

How can I be sure the levels are acceptable, rather than finding out at home , later...

Thanks for all of the helpful advice!

Get a new recorder first - then mics...

[greensparrow]

Thanks for everyone's helpful advice!!!