Topic: Schoeps CMC6/MK4 actives vs CCMC4

[dlantelme]

I'm pretty familiar with the CMC6/MK4 rig as far as how good it sounds, though I'm a little unclear on which ones of those expensive cables and adaptors are necessary . Looks like a new setup would be in the $3500 range, used about $2400. Correct?
  How do these "compact cartiod mics", the CCMC4, compare? Most of my taping is stealth, and I'd like to not duplicate the sound of the SKM140s, as there is usually that rig taping as well(though from worse seats). thanks for your thoughts

[dmonterisi]

don't know much about the differences between the two, but i'd say sonically they are gonna be similar...check out the yard sale, ccm4's on the block...

http://www.taperssection.com/yabbse/index.php?board=7;action=display;threadid=9629

[Tim]

well, one advantage to running the cmc6/kc5/mk4 setup is the ability to use different caps for different applications.

one disadvantage of that setup for stealth situations is tha you must bring the bodies in with you (or utilize a preamp that allows you to go bodyless like the n-box or lemo-sax) which is more crap to sneak past security.

sonically they're the same. go over to the www.oade.com and search the archives in the tapers section. Ben Morrison used to run the ccm4's and has plenty of comments on them.

I think those ccm4's in the yard sale are a great deal, wish I had some extra cash!

[Brian Skalinder]

I'm pretty familiar with the CMC6/MK4 rig as far as how good it sounds, though I'm a little unclear on which ones of those expensive cables and adaptors are necessary . Looks like a new setup would be in the $3500 range, used about $2400. Correct?
  How do these "compact cartiod mics", the CCMC4, compare? Most of my taping is stealth, and I'd like to not duplicate the sound of the SKM140s, as there is usually that rig taping as well(though from worse seats). thanks for your thoughts

I've never done a direct comparison, but from the recordings I've heard they're *very* similar in sound.  They're cheaper both new and used, and no bodies to deal with, which is nice for stealthing.  But you can't change the caps.

[dlantelme]

that's why I'm asking.
 I assume similar sound, but want to know the differences and increased capabilities of, I assume, theCMC6?MK4.
 And I vaue the owners opinion, of course, but am looking for as much info out there                  Doug

[dmonterisi]

well, here's a suggestion that you should feel free to disregard...i'd consider picking up the ccm4's that are available used.  it's a good deal and if you later decide that you want the option of interchangeable caps (which i see as the only advantage of the mk4/cmc6 setup) you can always sell these and get your money back.

[creekfreak]

From a sound standpoint, the ccm4 and cmc6/5 and mk4 sound the same. The ccm4 is bodiless and very compact, but you don't get the ability to change caps, which is my biggest problem with them. If you want a low profile rig using the bodies and caps you will want to put the Kc5 active cable between the body and caps. This gives you the same low profile look as the ccm4, but you run the bodies down in your bag. With the odies and KC5 cables, you can then change caps are you see fit. I run the cmc5 bodies, mk4 and mk41 caps and run the kc5 active cables.

[Brian Skalinder]

The MKx/CMC6 combo is a full-size small diaphgram mic, with fairly lengthy (5"?) CMC6 mic bodies.  Because the caps are a separate piece from the bodies, a whole range of pickup patterns are available:  MK4 (card), MK41 (hyper), MK21 (subcard), MK2 (omni), etc.  To run this combo stealth, though, you'd either have to:

[a] buy the KC5 active cables to run the MKx caps remotely and then carry the CMC6 bodies with you, or
buy a pre that allows the caps to be run remotely from the CMC6 bodies, like the JKLabs or NBox preamps.

The CCM4s use a different design to achieve the same function as the CMC6 bodies + MK4 caps - the full size bodies are replaced by much smaller electronics housed in a much smaller space.  And the pickup patterns are not changable.  So if you want the option of running cards or hypers, you'd have to buy a set of CCM4 (cards), and then also a set of CCM41 (ypers).

If you don't mind sticking with one pickup pattern and stealth a lot, the CCM4s (or CCM41s) are a great option. If you want the flexibility to run different pickup patterns, the MK4/KC5/CMC6 combo is the way to go.

I wanted the flexibility to run hypers or cards, so I bought MK4 and MK41 along with the CMC6 bodies and KC5 active cables.

[plucks]

They're cheaper both new and used, and no bodies to deal with, which is nice for stealthing.  But you can't change the caps.

As everyone has said, the sonic qualities are so minimal you would not hear a difference.

You can actually just buy the bodyless mics without the cable if you choose the Lemo connector.  However, the price difference between the mic with and without the cable is so minimal it is generally not worth it for most people.
The Lemo connector is nice as you can set the cables up before hand and right before the recording starts you can just pop the mics onto the connector.  Makes for quick setup and taketown.

Phil

[Brian Skalinder]

You can actually just buy the bodyless mics without the cable if you choose the Lemo connector.

Thanks for that, Phil, didn't realize it could be done!

[creekfreak]

If I was only going to get one ccm series mic, it would be the 41, if you can only one cap, make it the 41, it rocks

[dmonterisi]

If I was only going to get one ccm series mic, it would be the 41, if you can only one cap, make it the 41, it rocks

i think that suggestion depends on music/rooms he typically tapes in.  i personally don't like hypers as much and will run cards at every chance i can over hypers.

[DaryanLenz]

Just a suggestion...sonic sense has a demo pair of cmc6/mk41 on ebay right now at a very fair price!

D

[creekfreak]

If I was only going to get one ccm series mic, it would be the 41, if you can only one cap, make it the 41, it rocks

i think that suggestion depends on music/rooms he typically tapes in.  i personally don't like hypers as much and will run cards at every chance i can over hypers.

I understand where you are coming from, but the mk41 IMO doesn't sound like your typical hyper, and any schoeps user would probably agree that if you could only have one schoeps cap, it would be the one to buy. Personally, if you are taping indoors use hypers, unless its a real good sounding room, but those are few and far between.

[dmonterisi]

i agree the schoeps hyper is superior to the rest of the hypers out there.  ALL that i said was that it depends on what music/rooms he taped.  If he spends every weekend taping bluegrass outdoors or classical music in good-sounding halls, i'll be damnned if he should be running mk41's.  

[wboswell]

i agree the schoeps hyper is superior to the rest of the hypers out there.  

enough said

[dmonterisi]

i agree the schoeps hyper is superior to the rest of the hypers out there.  

enough said

looking to become a lawyer by quoting out of context?

[creekfreak]

i agree the schoeps hyper is superior to the rest of the hypers out there.  ALL that i said was that it depends on what music/rooms he taped.  If he spends every weekend taping bluegrass outdoors or classical music in good-sounding halls, i'll be damnned if he should be running mk41's.  

I agree completely, if all I was taping was outside or in a good sounding room I would want either the cards or the subcards.

[wboswell]

i agree the schoeps hyper is superior to the rest of the hypers out there.  

enough said

become a lawyer [and] quote out of context

exactly

[Tim]

sorry Boswell, bus is full...

[wboswell]

I spent 2 hours in a courtroom yesterday (no, I was not personally involved) watching an insurance case...  Litigation is not for me!  More power to you guys that can do it

[Nick Culbreth]

since you say you'd be using them mostly for stealthing i'd go w/ the mk4 > nbox setup or ccm4 over the mk4 > kc5 > cmc6.  not having to deal w/ the bodies is a big plus when you have to keep your stuff as concealed as possible.

[DaryanLenz]

Best hyper...hmm, I would go with the gefell m21 as the best!!!
 
D

[dlantelme]

you guys are great.
I saw the demo pair of CMC6?MK4s for sale(now on ebay) but no active cables with it, pushes the final package price pretty high.
 Most of my taping is from good seats in a 700 seat theatre, good acoustics and a Meyer PA. I'm pretty eclectic in my tastes, and tape jazz, singer songwriter types, Allison Krauss, Rock and blues(David Lindley, Taj) and classical too(Kronos Quartet). I'm a bit surprised to hear a strong vote for the hyper, and it's good to know that the Schoeps hyper cap is well thought of.
  Seems like the consensus is the CCMC4 is going to sound the same as the CMC6/MK4 setup, and that if I think I'm going to happy with the Cardiod cap all the time, to pick up the CCMC4s.             Doug

[dmonterisi]

based on what music you tape and the venue, it sounds to me like you'll be very happy with the ccm4's...you can always resell em if they end up being not what you're looking for...have fun!

-damon

[Tim]

go get em... the ones in the yard sale are a great deal. I think you'll be very pleased!

[creekfreak]

if all you want to do is stealth and are always in a good sounding room, then get the ccm4's.

[creekfreak]

Best hyper...hmm, I would go with the gefell m21 as the best!!!
 
D

I was waiting for that..... but the mk41 is actually a supercardiod....

[Mic D]

based on what music you tape and the venue, it sounds to me like you'll be very happy with the ccm4's...you can always resell em if they end up being not what you're looking for...have fun!

-damon

What he said.