Author Topic: Opinions on SP BMC-6 / BMC-12 / CMC-4 mini mics (Read 12144 times)

skua · « **on:** March 20, 2004, 04:41:01 PM »

I'm going to be recording mostly loud rock & metal in small to medium sized venues. Stealthiness is very important. I'd like some feedback on these models which I currenlty consider affordable. Priced from about $99 to $169. My recorder is a Archos Gmini 120.

I looked at the sets from Giant Squid... and listened to their samples. While they sound pretty good... they are a little thin and brittle sounding. I don't know if it's the mic or the bass-rolloff used on the battery box.

Regarding the battery box... is the bass-rolloff essential ? A lot of the recodings I hear using this sound a bit anemic. I wouldn't mind EQ'ing after a show... but once filtered out the bass can't be replaced. Is the bass-rolloff feature more helpful in preventing distortion at high SPL's rather than preventing a bassy recording?

I look forward to your input. If possible I'd like to keep the cost of the mics and the battery-box at $200 or under. I realise this keeps me in the 'kiddie-pool' for now... but it's what my budget can currently tolerate! :-)

Sean Gallemore · « **Reply #1 on:** March 20, 2004, 04:49:51 PM »

I have no experience with their binaural mics. I have used the CMC-2s with good results. 4s with a battery box will put you over $200. I'd get the roll-off just in case, it's only $20 more and it might save your ass.

CMC-2 + SPSB-1 + roll-off = $200

skua · « **Reply #2 on:** March 20, 2004, 05:03:49 PM »

Looks like they are dropping some items from their site... I no longer see their mini-battery box nor do I see the CMC-2 mics...

Hmmm... any input regarding the offerings from Giant Squid Audio Labs ? The prices look pretty good. How's the quality from the taper point of view. I know I've emailed them with some questions and so far I've received prompt replies.

Sean Gallemore · « **Reply #3 on:** March 20, 2004, 05:08:29 PM »

sp-cmc-2

sp-spsb-1

Sean Gallemore · « **Reply #4 on:** March 20, 2004, 05:11:33 PM »

I think you'd be much happier with the SP mics over Giant Squid

leegeddy · « **Reply #5 on:** March 20, 2004, 05:13:14 PM »

i would recommend the CMC-4, which uses the AT853 cardioid caps. you can use it for now with the BattBox w/roll off or the SP preamp they sell.

later on, you may want to have the CMC-4 modded (by SP or yourself) to the phantom power supply. this way, you could add a separate preamp like the UA-5, MP2, Beyerdynamics MV-100, etc. you'll notice a large improvement over the battbox power.

for the size, the cost and the performace of the CMC-4's, they are great stealth mics.

marc

skua · « **Reply #6 on:** March 20, 2004, 05:15:35 PM »

d'oh!... sorry ... was looking under omni's ... my mistake. Thanks.

Sean Gallemore · « **Reply #7 on:** March 20, 2004, 05:16:17 PM »

^^^
agreed. interchangable caps, can be modded to use with batt and phantom power. If you can swing a bit more money I'd recommend going this route

leegeddy · « **Reply #8 on:** March 20, 2004, 06:00:03 PM »

http://pages.sbcglobal.net/mkim/MP3/primus2004-03-10-sample.mp3

this is a sample of Primus 10Mar'04 Asheville, NC show.

source: at853hyper > at8533 > beyerdynamics mv-100 > d100 approx. 75' from stage, at the sbd. mics were about 11' up.

sounds pretty good to my ears.

marc

Sean Gallemore · « **Reply #9 on:** March 20, 2004, 07:23:46 PM »

that show gonna be posted, marc?

leegeddy · « **Reply #10 on:** March 20, 2004, 07:34:51 PM »

Quote from: Schwillster on March 20, 2004, 07:23:46 PM

that show gonna be posted, marc?

with me crazy schedule? probably not. i'll do a b/p for ya if you want a clone.

pm me,
marc

skua · « **Reply #11 on:** March 20, 2004, 08:38:41 PM »

mmmm .... sounds nice. Thanks for that sample. If I can swing the CMC-4's which capsules would you recommend to start with? Cardioid, Sub-Cardioid or Omnidirectional. I like the fact that the Cards will reject some of the surrounding crowd and reflected noise... so I'm guessing the standard Cardioids might be the best to start off with?

leegeddy · « **Reply #12 on:** March 20, 2004, 08:48:16 PM »

Quote from: skua on March 20, 2004, 08:38:41 PM

mmmm .... sounds nice. Thanks for that sample. If I can swing the CMC-4's which capsules would you recommend to start with? Cardioid, Sub-Cardioid or Omnidirectional. I like the fact that the Cards will reject some of the surrounding crowd and reflected noise... so I'm guessing the standard Cardioids might be the best to start off with?

i'd go with the cardioid capsules. if you like the mics, i would pick up the hypers down the road. i see no reason for using omnis for stealthing.

marc

Sean Gallemore · « **Reply #13 on:** March 20, 2004, 08:55:30 PM »

Quote from: leegeddy on March 20, 2004, 08:48:16 PM

Quote from: skua on March 20, 2004, 08:38:41 PM
mmmm .... sounds nice. Thanks for that sample. If I can swing the CMC-4's which capsules would you recommend to start with? Cardioid, Sub-Cardioid or Omnidirectional. I like the fact that the Cards will reject some of the surrounding crowd and reflected noise... so I'm guessing the standard Cardioids might be the best to start off with?

i'd go with the cardioid capsules. if you like the mics, i would pick up the hypers down the road. i see no reason for using omnis for stealthing.

marc

skua · « **Reply #14 on:** March 20, 2004, 09:27:37 PM »

Well... for $238 + S&H I can get the SP-CMC-4's with cardioid caps along with the mini SP-SPSB-6 with bass-rolloff. I can control recording volume on the recorder. Seems like it's a decent deal to me.

Thank you, gentlemen, for your time, patience and opinions. As usual you've been very helpful to this newbie. I hope to have my rig completed and my technique practiced enough to tape a bunch of concerts in April.

Cheers!

mgleason007 · « **Reply #15 on:** March 21, 2004, 12:27:42 AM »

Unless you're set on that size/price of a batt box, you can get the -1 and get level control on it. My :twocents:

skua · « **Reply #16 on:** March 21, 2004, 01:12:39 AM »

Are you referring to the SP-SPSB-1 ? Adding the bass-rolloff and volume features jacks the price up to $99.00 for the battery-box alone. I'd hate to have the vol pot or sliders start to get scratchy on me.

Could get the bass-rolloff and single vol knob on the -6... but again it jacks the price up to the $100 mark. Was really hoping I could get by setting the record volume on the Archos. I've got to use their meters anyway.

mgleason007 · « **Reply #17 on:** March 21, 2004, 01:35:25 AM »

Quote from: skua on March 21, 2004, 01:12:39 AM

Are you referring to the SP-SPSB-1 ? Adding the bass-rolloff and volume features jacks the price up to $99.00 for the battery-box alone. I'd hate to have the vol pot or sliders start to get scratchy on me.

Could get the bass-rolloff and single vol knob on the -6... but again it jacks the price up to the $100 mark. Was really hoping I could get by setting the record volume on the Archos. I've got to use their meters anyway.

Yeah, that's what I was referring to. I wasn't aware off the top of my head that you could get the volume nob on the -6. If you plug the batt box line in I don't think you can use the volume control on the archos (and line in is the whole point of a batt box).

Sean Gallemore · « **Reply #18 on:** March 21, 2004, 03:19:24 AM »

cheers!

we're always here, don't forget us

George · « **Reply #19 on:** March 21, 2004, 02:36:53 PM »

Glad to see another soundpro at853 stealth taper jumping on the wagon!

I have the -1 and -6, the -1 fell apart on me and sent it in for warranty repairs. I also own the 6 with the hinge so i can pop it open quickly to set volume on it, works ok i suppose. The bass filter, for me, works like it should, rolling off incredible thick midbass that always haunts rock and metal shows (perfect example: current Metallica tour). That bass is shit and can muddy up a recording without any bass rolloff quickly, imho.

I also have the same mics you picked up with hypers, oni's (never used the omni's!) and standard cards. I use the hypers all the time now and like what i hear, altho, they are a bit bright and rolloff the bass themselves...might want to take that into consideration when selecting a bass rolloff.

I taped a Neil Young show last night and there's some light static (clipping) even tho i was hitting a constant -2db on the M1 all night, so i guess this is where (i think it was nickgregory?) was talking about the soundpro at853's clipping easily due to excessive bass in a show. Just take that food for thought when taping, next show i tape i'll make sure to keep the M1 meter around -5db tops.

Enjoy taping with the at853's!

nickgregory · « **Reply #20 on:** March 21, 2004, 05:01:02 PM »

Quote from: gloco on March 21, 2004, 02:36:53 PM

next show i tape i'll make sure to keep the M1 meter around -5db tops.

definitley give it a shot, but in my experience it does not matter what level you are feeding the recording device...the mics, due to their powering scheme overload and distort long before that signal gets to your dat...

skua · « **Reply #21 on:** March 21, 2004, 09:22:45 PM »

Just to clarify... you CAN use the recording level adjustments on the Archos Gmini 120 while running line in. I can't yet say how accurate the meters are... but they do seem to function. The display shows a 'progress bar' that seems to go from 'zero' to 'full volume' as well as the left and right level meters. Levels can be adjusted on the fly while recording through the line in.

I'm concerned by nickgregory's comments... are both the CMC-4's (AT853) and the CMC-2's (AT831) prone to distorting or clipping in 'bass-heavy' concert environments? Do the 853's really need Phantom Power for high SPL situations?

mgleason007 · « **Reply #22 on:** March 21, 2004, 09:26:11 PM »

Quote from: skua on March 21, 2004, 09:22:45 PM

I'm concerned by nickgregory's comments... are both the CMC-4's (AT853) and the CMC-2's (AT831) prone to distorting or clipping in 'bass-heavy' concert environments? Do the 853's really need Phantom Power for high SPL situations?

Yes to both... your bass rolloff will help with the first one, and using phantom power (and obviously making them phantom power capable) will help with the second.

skua · « **Reply #23 on:** March 21, 2004, 09:56:46 PM »

I'm not ready to spend on making the CMC-4's phantom power capable yet... so for high SPL situations would I be better off with the CMC-2's running off a battery box?

nickgregory · « **Reply #24 on:** March 21, 2004, 10:22:28 PM »

different people have different results, but I can tell you from experience, at snoop dogg/chili peppers ~15 ft from the bass cabinet and Kid Rock ~40 feet from the bass cabinet, the mics distorted....it is a powering issue, which is common from what I understand with all Sound Pros AT versions, simply because they were not made for 9 V powering and as a result you do not take advantage of their full SPL specs.

That being said, if I could have moved to the center of the venue in both cases, I dont think it would have been a problem. The key was the proximity to the bass cabinet, which was head level (usually is) and was rignt in front of me. Tough to move for an assigned seating event.

Also, bass roll off will not help you in this situation. The mics are distorting prior to hitting the 9v module...

At their price point, they are reasonable stealth mics, just have to be careful where you set up...which I never had alot of options for.

Sean Gallemore · « **Reply #25 on:** March 21, 2004, 10:40:03 PM »

fwiw, I had no problems using the SP-CMC-2 (AT831c) with the battery box, however, my recordings are MUCH better now with the AT853Rx.

nickgregory · « **Reply #26 on:** March 21, 2004, 10:42:35 PM »

Quote from: Schwillster on March 21, 2004, 10:40:03 PM

fwiw, I had no problems using the SP-CMC-2 (AT831c) with the battery box, however, my recordings are MUCH better now with the AT853Rx.

I also made my share of quality recordings with the sound pros version...hell my sheryl crow tape is being sold all over ebay <gritting my teeth>....I just had two very bad experiences that annoyed the crap out me...so I upgraded to the AT853Rx...but there are plenty of people that have the sound pro's version and love them...just take my opinion as a dissenting one...

skua · « **Reply #27 on:** March 21, 2004, 11:32:24 PM »

OK... well Monday is upon me... time to bite the bullet and make my decision... I'll let you know what I decide to go with.

Once again, thanks for all the great info. You guys are the best.

Sean Gallemore · « **Reply #28 on:** March 22, 2004, 05:03:43 AM »

we know you'll bite the right bullet

zhianosatch · « **Reply #29 on:** March 22, 2004, 09:45:12 AM »

Hell no, the 831s are not prone to distortion. Best entry-level mics there are. For $200 out the door, they cannot be beat.

nickgregory · « **Reply #30 on:** March 22, 2004, 10:13:47 AM »

Quote from: zhianosatch on March 22, 2004, 09:45:12 AM

Hell no, the 831s are not prone to distortion. Best entry-level mics there are. For $200 out the door, they cannot be beat.

fair enough...I was speaking of the Sound Pros AT853s only...apologies for the confusion.

zhianosatch · « **Reply #31 on:** March 22, 2004, 11:49:57 AM »

Totally... I wasn't referring to your post.

skua · « **Reply #32 on:** March 22, 2004, 02:47:19 PM »

Welp... the deed is done. My order is in for a set of the SP-CMC-2 (AT831) mics and a battery box with bass-rolloff. Now, of course, I can't wait for them to arrive.

I went with the the CMC-2's because they aren't busting my budget... and from the numerous samples I've heard they do sound damn good. Everything I plan on recording is going to have to be in stealth mode... and these seem to be just the right tool to get me started.

If I get the itch to upgrade... I already have a bunch of good info and know where to come for additional advice! Hopefully my efforts will yield tapes worthy of sharing with the community!

zhianosatch · « **Reply #33 on:** March 22, 2004, 03:22:08 PM »

Excellent choice, skua. No better way to start out, I think.

George · « **Reply #34 on:** March 22, 2004, 09:41:30 PM »

Quote from: nickgregory on March 21, 2004, 05:01:02 PM

Quote from: gloco on March 21, 2004, 02:36:53 PM
next show i tape i'll make sure to keep the M1 meter around -5db tops.

definitley give it a shot, but in my experience it does not matter what level you are feeding the recording device...the mics, due to their powering scheme overload and distort long before that signal gets to your dat...

Yeah, i get the feeling that is definitely the case too. Too bad...maybe if i contact soundpro to modify these mics for phantom power, that might help out? I got a bit of a dry spell coming up and think it might be worth the cash before i decide to upgrade, what do you think?

nickgregory · « **Reply #35 on:** March 22, 2004, 10:02:22 PM »

Quote from: gloco on March 22, 2004, 09:41:30 PM

Quote from: nickgregory on March 21, 2004, 05:01:02 PM
Quote from: gloco on March 21, 2004, 02:36:53 PM
next show i tape i'll make sure to keep the M1 meter around -5db tops.

definitley give it a shot, but in my experience it does not matter what level you are feeding the recording device...the mics, due to their powering scheme overload and distort long before that signal gets to your dat...

Yeah, i get the feeling that is definitely the case too. Too bad...maybe if i contact soundpro to modify these mics for phantom power, that might help out? I got a bit of a dry spell coming up and think it might be worth the cash before i decide to upgrade, what do you think?

cant hurt to get the mod done. I have to believe that it will be less costly than other mics...and leaving a show that you stealthed with a recording that is screwed for reasons beyond your control...not fun...which is why I switched.

Chanher · « **Reply #36 on:** March 23, 2004, 01:50:27 AM »

hey skua, good choice, I've been running that exact same thing (see signature) and I still have them. I'm getting a jb3 but I can't seem to let go of the MD, it's just so small...

skua · « **Reply #37 on:** March 23, 2004, 10:39:52 AM »

:-) yeah I'm really anxious to get the mics and see what kind of results I can get out of them. There's a small club in my area that gets lots of decent acts... no security at all... so it's a perfect 'proving ground' for the new rig.

I know for sure that it's a step up from my old rig (Sony WM-D3 cassette!) and I'm looking forward to getting back into it again. Since my Sony died it's really sucked going to shows and NOT having a tape of it at the end of the night! hehehehehe!

Sean Gallemore · « **Reply #38 on:** March 23, 2004, 10:41:01 AM »

Quote from: gloco on March 22, 2004, 09:41:30 PM

Quote from: nickgregory on March 21, 2004, 05:01:02 PM
Quote from: gloco on March 21, 2004, 02:36:53 PM
next show i tape i'll make sure to keep the M1 meter around -5db tops.

definitley give it a shot, but in my experience it does not matter what level you are feeding the recording device...the mics, due to their powering scheme overload and distort long before that signal gets to your dat...

Yeah, i get the feeling that is definitely the case too. Too bad...maybe if i contact soundpro to modify these mics for phantom power, that might help out? I got a bit of a dry spell coming up and think it might be worth the cash before i decide to upgrade, what do you think?

i think you still need a device to provide phantom power

Chanher · « **Reply #39 on:** March 24, 2004, 12:36:58 AM »

hey skua, one more thing, I have had much better results running ortf with the at831's. the mics are naturally bright and both ortf and din accentuate this particular strength better.

Sean Gallemore · « **Reply #40 on:** March 24, 2004, 01:47:21 AM »

good thoughts, chris. I will be running the AT831 in DIN possibly this weekend and I think it's gonna rock my sox

Chanher · « **Reply #41 on:** March 25, 2004, 12:21:18 AM »

Quote from: Schwillster on March 24, 2004, 01:47:21 AM

good thoughts, chris. I will be running the AT831 in DIN possibly this weekend and I think it's gonna rock my sox

[thumbs up]

George · « **Reply #42 on:** March 26, 2004, 11:36:16 AM »

Quote from: Schwillster on March 23, 2004, 10:41:01 AM

Quote from: gloco on March 22, 2004, 09:41:30 PM
Quote from: nickgregory on March 21, 2004, 05:01:02 PM
Quote from: gloco on March 21, 2004, 02:36:53 PM
next show i tape i'll make sure to keep the M1 meter around -5db tops.

definitley give it a shot, but in my experience it does not matter what level you are feeding the recording device...the mics, due to their powering scheme overload and distort long before that signal gets to your dat...

Yeah, i get the feeling that is definitely the case too. Too bad...maybe if i contact soundpro to modify these mics for phantom power, that might help out? I got a bit of a dry spell coming up and think it might be worth the cash before i decide to upgrade, what do you think?

i think you still need a device to provide phantom power

yep, working on it

Sean Gallemore · « **Reply #43 on:** March 27, 2004, 12:45:56 AM »

skua · « **Reply #44 on:** April 10, 2004, 10:17:57 PM »

Took my SP-CMC-2's out in the 'field' for the first time last Tuesday... taped Yngwie Malmsteen at a small venue (which was suprisingly crowded! All the shred-heads came out to see the Maestro!)

Anyway... just wanted to say that I am not at all disappointed in my decision to purchase the CMC-2's... I ran them into a battery box, bass-rolloff set to 95Hz, and then line-in to my Archos Gmini 120 and got a great recording. Mics were hidden in the hatband of a baseball cap, positioned roughly at my temples and aimed towards the stage.

Chris Color and Schwillster... I had to go lookup ORTF and DIN... hehehe... I guess I'll have to give them a try with another hat. Was going to create a 'croakie' style mount on some glasses to be able to wear the mics in... but you think an ORTF or DIN orientation of the mics would produce even better results?

I screwed up and lost the opening set by George Lynch... pure idiot user error not being familiar enough with my new equipment. I did capture the full set from Yngwie... almost 2.5 hours of neoclassical noodling and it was an absolute joy not having to worry about tape-flips. All in all I must have had the recorder running for 3.5 hours... and I still had battery juice when I left.

I think these CMC-2's are going to keep me happy for a while.... and as long as the Gmini doesn't freak out on me (as some have reported) it will be great. It's small and easy to operate.

Thanks again for all the advice.

Sean Gallemore · « **Reply #45 on:** April 10, 2004, 11:16:11 PM »

good to hear, tapir!

skua · « **Reply #46 on:** May 07, 2004, 11:48:54 PM »

Well... it took me awhile but finally got around to fixing up the Yngwie Malmsteen tape I made with the CMC-2's and my Archos Gmini 120. I've posted the show on STG so if your interested... have at it.

http://tinyurl.com/38r8v

Enjoy.

-skua-

Sean Gallemore · « **Reply #47 on:** May 08, 2004, 01:11:53 AM »

sweet, thank you