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Author Topic: Zoom F3  (Read 11293 times)

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Offline aaronji

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Re: Zoom F3
« Reply #75 on: March 07, 2022, 11:38:26 AM »
^^ I guess you're referring to me, but that's not really what I am saying. I have nothing against 32BF, but I realized that it is more complicated than the marketing stuff portrays. The "no need to set levels" is due to the multi-ADC architecture and the huge dynamic range that results. That's been around for a while, I think, but not in lower-priced stuff. I don't think I have changed the gain setting on my MixPre-6 (first version) in ages. No need, really. If I peak at -6 or -12 or even -22, it sounds pretty much the same once boosted in the DAW. The non-clippability is different. The Dave King recording I mentioned would virtually certainly have overloaded the F3 due to the sensitive mics (DPA 2006C; 40 mV/Pa) and being too close to a fired-up King!

As you mention, I've found on-stage drums to be what reaches and defines the practical SPL limit of my current F8-based rig. 


My last last few on-stage recordings, I cheated towards the other side of the stage a bit. More balanced that way, actually, when the drummer is hitting hard.

Knowing where that limit lies is the key.  Recording 24 bits, I mostly run F8 in this kind of set and forget 32-bit float type of way.  Sometimes I'll pull up the input gains across all channels for quiet stuff, not for but mostly just to get more level so I can see all the meters moving, including the rear-facing channels


That's basically what I was trying to say above...

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Zoom F3
« Reply #76 on: March 07, 2022, 12:32:44 PM »
My last last few on-stage recordings, I cheated towards the other side of the stage a bit. More balanced that way, actually, when the drummer is hitting hard.

Love running mics on stage.  Not too close, not too far.  There is no greater exciting realism for drums.  Regardless of mic'ing distance, I find a straight line-of-sight from mics to the snare to be a good rule of thumb,
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Offline darby

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Re: Zoom F3
« Reply #77 on: March 07, 2022, 04:51:05 PM »
I received my unit today...  all view magnification changes DO NOT effect the waveform
I ran some tests with various inputs and will have some shows coming up in a few
I plan on running one of my various preamps in front since it is so TINY

Offline cd2go

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Re: Zoom F3
« Reply #78 on: March 07, 2022, 05:02:23 PM »
Beat me! Awesome news keep us updated on your experiences  :cheers:

Offline Ozpeter

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Re: Zoom F3
« Reply #79 on: March 07, 2022, 05:11:38 PM »
I received my unit today...  all view magnification changes DO NOT effect the waveform
I ran some tests with various inputs and will have some shows coming up in a few
I plan on running one of my various preamps in front since it is so TINY

So, in essence, magnification is simply digital monitoring level?   And does the magnification setting carry over to replay - in the machine, not n the DAW - or does it only function while recording?  Looking forward to your updates!  I'd love to get one simply because it would represent to me the final stage in a very long audio recording journey (my first pro recording was in 1968!) , but I guess I'll leave it to the younger folks to carry the flag now!

Offline voltronic

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Re: Zoom F3
« Reply #80 on: March 08, 2022, 05:48:20 AM »
Excited to see how this thing works! Great potential as a set it and forget it device (on stage, at the board, etc.)

NOT trying to get into the 32bit debate with that comment…

The only debate would be with people who haven't used multi-ADC 32FP recording. I have had an F6 since the early days of its release and only ever use 32FP mode. The "set and forget aspect" has totally proven itself. I record music with much wider dynamic range than most members here, and there have been zero audible artifacts of the auto-ranging ADCs switching. It is truly transparent.

I should clarify my earlier post:

I was not taking issue with people who choose not to use this recording method, nor was I saying it solves all of your problems. You can still overload the input stage, as Ozpeter and aaronj point out.

The point I was trying to make is that the technology works and does so seamlessly, and that the concerns expressed on this board about detrimental effects / artifacts have not borne out in practice.
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Offline voltronic

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Re: Zoom F3
« Reply #81 on: March 08, 2022, 05:50:56 AM »
I received my unit today...  all view magnification changes DO NOT effect the waveform
I ran some tests with various inputs and will have some shows coming up in a few
I plan on running one of my various preamps in front since it is so TINY

Thanks for reporting back. Wow, that is a small device!

Side question: Did you make those side-exit XLRs yourself, or were they a custom build by a vendor?
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Offline darby

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Re: Zoom F3
« Reply #82 on: March 08, 2022, 09:14:12 AM »
I received my unit today...  all view magnification changes DO NOT effect the waveform
I ran some tests with various inputs and will have some shows coming up in a few
I plan on running one of my various preamps in front since it is so TINY

Thanks for reporting back. Wow, that is a small device!

Side question: Did you make those side-exit XLRs yourself, or were they a custom build by a vendor?

I spent TOO much and purchased them... they are adjustable

Offline cd2go

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Re: Zoom F3
« Reply #83 on: March 08, 2022, 09:17:55 PM »
Side question: Did you make those side-exit XLRs yourself, or were they a custom build by a vendor?

I spent TOO much and purchased them... they are adjustable

Very sleek! Are these the brand?

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1296365-REG/cable_techniques_ct_lpxr_10r_low_profile_xlr_3_pin_10.html

Looks like they distribute parts/kits through Redding Audio for the more electronically industrious amongst us:

https://www.cabletechniques.com
« Last Edit: March 08, 2022, 09:33:03 PM by cd2go »

Offline Ozpeter

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Re: Zoom F3
« Reply #84 on: March 14, 2022, 09:13:57 PM »
In this video - https://youtu.be/zpoFhCCi2VE - it's stated that magnification level changes during recording do not affect the recorded file, but that magnification changes set before recording DO affect the recorded file - if that's the case doesn't that negate the object of using 32 bit float (ie no need to have recording level setting)?  Or maybe the idea is that 32 bit float has such a vast headroom that even upping the recorded level to the maximum you still won't get digital clipping (if you bring the level down in your DAW).... help!  I'm confused...

Offline cd2go

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Re: Zoom F3
« Reply #85 on: March 15, 2022, 12:08:53 AM »
  Or maybe the idea is that 32 bit float has such a vast headroom that even upping the recorded level to the maximum you still won't get digital clipping (if you bring the level down in your DAW).... help!  I'm confused...

This is my understanding, and hope; and that it works the other way as well for noise floor on a file recorded “too” low.

Offline voltronic

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Re: Zoom F3
« Reply #86 on: March 15, 2022, 06:56:29 AM »
  Or maybe the idea is that 32 bit float has such a vast headroom that even upping the recorded level to the maximum you still won't get digital clipping (if you bring the level down in your DAW).... help!  I'm confused...

This is my understanding, and hope; and that it works the other way as well for noise floor on a file recorded “too” low.

On my F6, if I set the channel knobs to REC level, I can crank them all the way and record files that have ridiculously high levels - we're talking +50 dB or more. Once I copy those files over and import into a wave editor, those levels can be brought down under 0 dBFS and there is no clipping.

My general habit now is to record with the channel levels set at +20 dB, only because I find I have to adjust the overall level less in post. It really doesn't matter though.
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Offline cd2go

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Re: Zoom F3
« Reply #87 on: March 16, 2022, 09:09:03 PM »
Received my unit yesterday!

First off, to confirm once and for all:

Magnification settings done before starting a recording DO affect the level of the .wav brought into your DAW

It also saves your magnification settings on each channel after power down and swapping batteries, that's nice. It is incredibly small in person, more so even than in pictures. It's a solid mass and feels well built. It sits perched sturdily on a desk for those using it as an interface. The battery door is a bit thin and doesn't instill confidence in longevity but so are the ones on my Tascams and I haven't had a problem with those in 10 years. One thing I do not like is that after starting a recording, if you slide the record button up to record again, it stops the recording. Not a huge deal but the switch does move very easily and I can't imagine why it functions this way. I believe on most recorders pressing record again makes a new track or marks the file. What reason would you ever have to stop a recording so quickly that you can't take the time to hit the actual stop button--besides wanting either of the aforementioned actions? Even though you should be using the hold function, I still see no reason for that, it's just a liability.   

I did a test recording some music and then room silence on the minimum and maximum magnification settings. The quieter file peaked at -43dB and the louder file +16dB. I normalized each to -.1dB and then listened to the silent portions. They were nearly indistinguishable, and I'm sure that in a controlled environment the noise floors would sound exactly the same.

For my Energizer E2 battery runtime test, I set it to 48kHz, lowered the headphone volume to zero (nothing connected), left the magnification to the stock 16x on both channels and ran 2 CCM 4 mics with 48V phantom power. Total record time was 6:37, which I'm very pleased with. That's about an hour less than my current recorders but with one less battery.

This is the perfect box for no fuss 2 channel XLR recording. I will likely pick up another for when I do matrix shows. Look forward to running it out in the field soon. Any other questions that can be answered just ask  8)
« Last Edit: March 16, 2022, 09:23:21 PM by cd2go »

Offline detroit lightning

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Re: Zoom F3
« Reply #88 on: March 16, 2022, 09:11:56 PM »
Received my unit yesterday!

First off, to confirm once and for all:

Magnification settings done before starting a recording DO affect the level of the .wav brought into your DAW

It also saves your magnification settings on each channel after power down and swapping batteries, that's nice. It is incredibly small in person, more so even than in pictures. It's a solid mass and feels well built. It sits perched sturdily on a desk for those using it as an interface. The battery door is a bit thin and doesn't instill confidence in longevity but so are the ones on my Tascams and I haven't had a problem with those in 10 years. One thing I do not
like is that after starting a recording, if you slide the record button up to record again, it stops the recording  ??? Not a huge deal but the switch does move very easily and I can't imagine why it functions this way. I believe on most recorders pressing record again makes a new track or marks the file. What reason would you ever have to stop a recording so quickly that you can't take the time to hit the actual stop button--besides wanting either of the aforementioned actions? Even though you should be using the hold function, I still see no reason for that, it's just a liability.   

I did a test recording some music and then room silence on the minimum and maximum magnification settings. The quieter file peaked at -43dB and the louder file +16dB. I normalized each to -.1dB and then listened to the silent portions. They were nearly indistinguishable, and I'm sure that in a controlled environment the noise floors would sound exactly the same.

For my Energizer E2 battery runtime test, I set it to 48kHz, lowered the headphone volume to zero (nothing connected), left the magnification to the stock 16x on both channels and ran 2 CCM 4 mics with 48V phantom power. Total record time was 6:37, which I'm very pleased with. That's about an hour less than my current recorders but with one less battery.

This is the perfect box for no fuss 2 channel XLR recording. I will likely pick up another for when I do matrix shows. Look forward to running it out in the field soon. Any other questions that can be answered just ask  8)

+t thank you for this review! Answered many questions...great stuff!

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Re: Zoom F3
« Reply #89 on: March 16, 2022, 11:40:18 PM »
> One thing I do not like is that after starting a recording, if you slide the record button up to record again, it stops the recording. Not a huge deal but the switch does move very easily and I can't imagine why it functions this way.

This sounds rather bleak, actually.

 

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