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Author Topic: Let's talk medium/high end stealth cardioid mics...  (Read 19608 times)

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Offline Brian Skalinder

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Re: Let's talk medium/high end stealth cardioid mics...
« Reply #60 on: October 21, 2004, 04:19:20 PM »
Rick, George - FWIW, I use the SX-M2/LS2 gain knobs for adjustment and find it very easy.  I have a small CD-style fanny pack in which it sits with the knobs facing up, and I can reach and adjust the knobs without looking at them while using my D100 remote to view the levels.  Works very well for me.  Reason I started doing it this way:  I suck at the (to me) super-sensitive D100 knob (see my APC recording from last April).

Robert - I haven't encounterd any situations where I'm not able to easily adjust my levels on the SX-M2/LS2 and have encountered glitch-free operation using the independent variable levels (aside from my self-inflicted battery troubles).  I think the extra functionality suits the box's - and my - purpose just fine.
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Offline Sean Gallemore

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Re: Let's talk medium/high end stealth cardioid mics...
« Reply #61 on: October 21, 2004, 06:00:00 PM »
tape them knobs down

Offline Brian Skalinder

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Re: Let's talk medium/high end stealth cardioid mics...
« Reply #62 on: October 21, 2004, 06:04:58 PM »
tape them knobs down

I do on the D100.  But gotta leave the SX-M2/LS2 knobs free so I can adjust levels!
Milab VM-44 Links > Fostex FR-2LE or
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Offline Sean Gallemore

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Re: Let's talk medium/high end stealth cardioid mics...
« Reply #63 on: October 22, 2004, 06:43:03 AM »
I was at a local extreme metal show last tuesday and had to tape in the pit against a column (only decent recording spot).

I was borrowing an SBM-1 and the owner said I shouldn't have to worry about taping down the level knob.  Thanx Sparge, thanx.

Offline jk labs

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Re: Let's talk medium/high end stealth cardioid mics...
« Reply #64 on: October 22, 2004, 07:20:11 AM »
double posted. There is no "delete message" option ?
« Last Edit: October 22, 2004, 07:24:56 AM by jk labs »

Offline jk labs

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Re: Let's talk medium/high end stealth cardioid mics...
« Reply #65 on: October 22, 2004, 07:22:22 AM »
The implementation of analog gain always poses a dillemma. A stepped gain control can be made to track l/r perfectly and last almost forever with "no" added noise.

Along those lines, it'd be nice to figure out a way to lock the gain controls. As it is now with the sax for instance, we have to tape the levels down and take it off and put it back on inconspicuously when we have to make adjustments. I also like the way the psp3 does it with one control for overall gain and another for l/r balance but not sure if that's a possibility.

That is an option. To do so dictates that you send the signal through two potentiometers.

It boils down to an issue of providing user friendly features vs the drawbacks said features have
on the performance (thats sounds like a bad patent application).

But these are the kind of challenges we all navigate every day, be it at the foodstore or in marriage.

Offline jk labs

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Re: Let's talk medium/high end stealth cardioid mics...
« Reply #66 on: October 22, 2004, 08:22:54 AM »
Quote
There are three significant differences between the ULS and the Blue Line that have relevancy to stealthing, especially if the choice stands between buying food or getting a mic set up. 

A) Unlike the ULS caps, the Blue Line capsules are electret
B) The Blue Line has sufficient performance in the integral active buffer to allow direct wiring ..
C) If one stares at a BL capsule for a while the bayonett connector sure starts to look like a cable exit port...

I.e all your really need are a pair of capsules, some 10 feet of strong starquadcable, a 9 Volts battery box and some epoxy. Now granted, the resale value might be slight :-)  but it's a rugged setup tolerant of both humidity and high sound pressure levels.

hold the train!!!
it seems you are saying that you can make a set of steath cables for the Blue Line caps, but what about the bodies?
the extension cables I have seen for the 300 series still need the bodies in the line, so does this mean I could run the cables as stated above with a (v power supply right into a pre-amp?

this I might just try!

If you look at the CK91 and compare it to other modular caps (like CK61, M21, Mk4 or Nakamichi CP capsules...), you'll notice that the Blue Line capsule is mechanically very "complete": Solid body, vents and slots, fully enclosed rear and a rear exit port!  Mechanical challenges are often _the_ major obstacle in making active heads. With the CK91 on the other hand, most of the mechanical stuff is there already. The "tailpipe" even acts as exit port for the new cable and supports strain relief etc.

Some electronics work is required on the inside the CK91 and a cable must be permanently attached. Ooops there went the modular aspect out the window. Seen as a whole this modification is rather delicate but straighforward. It is _not_ easily reversed.

The cable added to the CK91 must be terminated in a connector or hardwired into a box. l


The alternative to all of the above is to get the AKG BL extension cable. It's a cable with connectors in both ends.   


What do you do at the mic body side?
Irrespective of if you run a "custom permanently attached cable solution" as above, or run the stock AKG BL extension cables, it is possible to remove the bodies. Their essential functions though must be replaced by some other device. Their "non-essential function we don't need (converting phantom power to 9 Volts, ++).

At a minimum a box containing a 6 to 9 Volts battery is needed. The savings so far in bulk and weight depend strongly on the connectors used but it is a way to get a fairly stealthy setup with just the capsules. Sonically there is no reason to think it is in any way inferior to running 300.

One can visualize putting more functionality inside the "CK9x batterybox". A quick search on the net for keywords "CK91" and "ECMS" will likely give some hits to a recording or two made with such a system.

Offline Humbug

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Re: Let's talk medium/high end stealth cardioid mics...
« Reply #67 on: October 23, 2004, 11:59:09 AM »
Hi, sorry to bump this thread for my own needs!

Basically I'm a lot more confused than when I began on the upgrade path. I'm just your average taper looking for a more rounded sound and technical stuff goes over my head a lot of the time.

I've been corresponding with Jon of JK labs, and like his 'power plant' solution, which is, as I understand it, a battery box type unit with the benefits of phantom power, but in a smaller package (sorry if I got this wrong, Jon). What I am puzzled about is which mics will work best for my particular needs, which are stealthing loud bassy rock bands in small clubs to medium size venues. I'm not interested in an external A>D.

I've narrowed it down to the following:

1. Sound Professional SPCMC4s (AT853s) > JK Labs power plant > Nomad JB3
2. Audio Technica AT853s > JK Labs power plant > Nomad JB3
3. Sound Professional SPCMC8s (ES943s) > JK Labs power plant > Nomad JB3
4. Audio Technica ES943s > JK Labs power plant > Nomad JB3

In all cases Jon tells me when ordering, I have to ask specially for miniXLR (Tini-QG TA3F) terminations for the mics, so that I could use them with his power plant.

Look forward to any suggestions, and it would be great if Leegeddy reads this, as I believe he has tried both types of mics.

Thanks,

Alex
UK based taper: MK4>Nbox Platinum>PCM-M10
AT853C>CA9200 / PIPsqueak>Tascam DR-2D

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Offline Zaphod

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Re: Let's talk medium/high end stealth cardioid mics...
« Reply #68 on: October 23, 2004, 01:27:13 PM »
Hi, sorry to bump this thread for my own needs!

Basically I'm a lot more confused than when I began on the upgrade path. I'm just your average taper looking for a more rounded sound and technical stuff goes over my head a lot of the time.

I've been corresponding with Jon of JK labs, and like his 'power plant' solution, which is, as I understand it, a battery box type unit with the benefits of phantom power, but in a smaller package (sorry if I got this wrong, Jon). What I am puzzled about is which mics will work best for my particular needs, which are stealthing loud bassy rock bands in small clubs to medium size venues. I'm not interested in an external A>D.

I've narrowed it down to the following:

1. Sound Professional SPCMC4s (AT853s) > JK Labs power plant > Nomad JB3
2. Audio Technica AT853s > JK Labs power plant > Nomad JB3
3. Sound Professional SPCMC8s (ES943s) > JK Labs power plant > Nomad JB3
4. Audio Technica ES943s > JK Labs power plant > Nomad JB3

In all cases Jon tells me when ordering, I have to ask specially for miniXLR (Tini-QG TA3F) terminations for the mics, so that I could use them with his power plant.

Look forward to any suggestions, and it would be great if Leegeddy reads this, as I believe he has tried both types of mics.

Thanks,

Alex

You really only have two of the four options mentioned above (AT853 or ATES943). If you want to run the AT mics with the JK labs box, you just need to have your AT mics terminated into mini XLRs. If you get the Soundpro versions they are just modified in their termination to a stereo male miniplug. In essence it doesn't really matter where you get the AT mics from so long as they have the miniXLRs on the ends.

Now I believe that Jon's box for powering the AT mics is to eliminate the need for phantom power adapters (Sanson PM4, AT8533) as well as provide the benefits of  phantom powering (not sure if it technically IS phantom powering.) I'm not sure if he has finalized the design, but he was wondering how to compromise the need or lack of need for a preamp (see http://www.taperssection.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=27801.0) I'm sure Jon can chime in with the technical aspects of it, but I hope this helps to clear any confusion.

EDIT: Got to thinking a bit. If you decided to go the route of JK labs for powering your mics, you should just get them from Soundprofessionals. It will probably the least expensive of the options, becasue the "real" AT mics (i.e. AT853rx) come with phantom power adapters, which you wouldn't be needing. Just get some miniXLRs to solder on yourself or see if Soundprofessionals could do it.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2004, 05:09:51 PM by Zaphod »
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Offline jk labs

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Re: Let's talk medium/high end stealth cardioid mics...
« Reply #69 on: October 25, 2004, 07:55:46 AM »

You really only have two of the four options mentioned above (AT853 or ATES943).


Here is a discussion on the differences including freq. response curves (cardioids I assume): http://www.taperssection.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=18615.msg235287#msg235287

A quick look indicates that the ES943 has a few dB lower output in the bass.
The ES943 has a more pronounced presence peak above around/above 10 kHz.

If we buy the AT specs published we find that the 12 mm diameter AT853 has 2 dB less selfnoise than the ES943 (27 dB and 29 dB SPL respectively). The AT853 has 3 dB less signal.
I.e the signal to noise ratio differ by a dB or so.. 

The ES943 is smaller.

The size, along with personal preferences wrt the sound, I think will be the matters on which to base a choice.

Or you just buy them both......

Jon

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Re: Let's talk medium/high end stealth cardioid mics...
« Reply #70 on: July 30, 2006, 06:53:17 AM »
>>In many months time, I guess I could afford the DPAs, but certainly not the Schoeps

i don't know where you got the price for the DPA 4021/22, but they are around +/-$3k per pair new.

marc




some people think it's a steal!

 

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