Topic: Stealthing very loud metal shows...extended from Team EVIL

[Evil Taper]

DPA 4061 vs SP-CMC-8

&

FOB vs Close to stacks

[Evil Taper]

Ok I preffer to stand FOB at any concert I go to whether I am running mics or not.  I see alot of recomendations for cardiods in that area of a venue but I also see alot of people who love the sound from their omnis.  The discussion seems to be about how finicky the omnis can be as relating to venue location.  I run some cheap omnis right now, Giant Squids, and they do pull a fucking muddy tape FOB.  However, with some eq work using Soundforge 6.0 (a custom 3 stage graphical eq system that I've developed) the sound thought lost is pulled from the bog and the bass is corrected.  So what I'm getting at is that with proper post production work the omnis can result in a nice full spectrum recording FOB.  So for someone like myself who wants to actually watch a show instead of getting pounded like a dough patty........would I benefit from cards or should I stick with omnis?

[Evil Taper]

Possibly other tapers aren't into mastering their recordings properly?  I don't see why people are so anal about doing post production work with a tool that even large scale recording professionals use such as Soundforge.  You can make an ok recording so sooooo much better with the proper tlc.  Maybe not everyone has backgrounds in electronic music production or working full boards in studios.  Even studio techs don't expect a releasable recording from their awesomely droolable mics alone, everything you buy has been extensively mastered in the post stage.  So even if you pull a nutable recording from the mics alone....why not take the extra step and make it even better?

PS
I talk to much.

[scb]

EARPLUGS! 

that close, your ears will thank you

[Brian Skalinder]

I don't see why people are so anal about doing post production work with a tool that even large scale recording professionals use such as Soundforge.

Because it's extremely difficult to do properly, to do well.  Shoot, there are even professionals who suck at post-production.  I *know* that I suck, I've tried.  I'm pretty darn happy with my recordings so I don't feel the need to do post-production work.  And frankly - while you may be the exception to the case (though I've found most people who think they're an exception aren't; no offense intended) - virtually no one in this game as a hobby has the proper skills to do post-production properly, to do it well.  A simple HPF, sure, but beyond that - not in my experience listening to various recordings mastered by the taper and/or others.

You can make an ok recording so sooooo much better with the proper tlc.

And gobs of people royally screw up their recordings as well.  Glad to hear you feel you can provide the proper TLC.

I really didn't intend to come across as Mr. Negative here, just offering some ideas about why I - and possibly others - don't bother with extensive post-production.  And hey, if it works for you - go for it!

[bmr]

Also, unless you end up testing your output on multiple audio setups, what you're really doing is tweaking it to sound good to your ears, and on your stereo. I've gone back in and made two copies of shows I've taped; I distribute the one with a simple EQ once-over, if that (to get rid of any glaring anomalies), and then do a second to tweak it for my ears and headphones.

Engineers are good at what they do, in part, because they're able to create a global sound, one that sounds good across the playback spectrum. It's damn hard to duplicate that with SF or CEP on one playback system.

[Evil Taper]

I'll usually burn a copy on a cdrw and then test it on a few different outputs.....surround sound, 3 way floor stereo, small PA, headphones, car.  Can take 2 or 3 shots sometimes to make a universally balanced recording for most platforms but it's not impossible to achieve.  I guess it's just my prefferance right now and once I upgrade my mics I probably won't feel a need for such extensive post work.  But...if you've ever been to The Rave in Milwaukee, WI...which is the only venue any notable bands play in the state, 95% of the time all you hear is MUDDDDDDDD.  Worst venue ever.

[pfife]

TO the question at hand:

if you are taping in shitty venues, omni's are not going to be the most desireable, I'd say.  You'd probably be better off with cards or hypers (or running a filter on the mud zone in post).

Plus, if a certain mic sound amazing to you, then get those.  Ultimately, they are your tapes, so you should get what you like.   My personal bent is to stealth omni's ALWAYS, for 2 reasons-

1) I listen to my recordings in headphones all the time - so it is desirable for me to record in binaural.  At this point, I see the 4061's as the best omni's I can afford... and they are stealthy as shit... and I can do without versatility in mics cause I only use omni's for stealthing.  It is also nice with the 4061's that you can get maximum performance from a battery box, as opposed to phantom power - which means less to carry/hide.
2) I've had bad luck with even the most minimal movements by me, or someone around me, causing effects on the sound in the recording when using cards and hypers for stealthing.

but YMMV.  These are just my experiences.

[kfrinkle]

well, being the metal dude that i am, who occasionally tapes Yanni as well, I love the cardiods (CMC-8s) over the binaurlas anyday....  really need directional mics, especially in the shitty venues that most heavy metal bands play in.  i got a show i will try to tape tonight, and I will be right inbetween the stacks, in front of the board, 50 feet from stage.  its just the way to do it.

[pfife]

I love the cardiods (CMC-8s) over the binaurlas anyday.... 

http://www.taperssection.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=20287.0

 

[kfrinkle]

+T   I know... its just that I used to have CSBs....

I love the cardiods (CMC-8s) over the binaurlas anyday.... 

http://www.taperssection.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=20287.0

 

[pfife]

yeah, I think that's what that thread was initially written in response to. 

but, csb's aren't shit compared to HEB/4061's.


+t backatcha

[kfrinkle]

yeah, i loved my CSBs, i really did, then i got some CMC-8s, and havent touched the CSBs since.  : )

[pfife]

The SP's have a lot of value at their price point. Plus with changeable caps if you ever wanted to run omnis all you need is omni caps. The 406x series is a more expensive option, probably a more solid mic overall but it lacks the flexibility. I think the SP's lose a bit of the low end whereas the DPA's have a full range.

Its not much more expensive- granted its new vs. used, but I just got 2 4061's for $295 from ebay.  It appears the SP mics are $239, so its not a huge difference.

You do lose versatility though, I do agree.

[kfrinkle]

well, i normally say... if it isnt stealthed, it probably isnt worth taping.... i know i will get alot of shit for that, but oh well.  long live stealth taping.  the only time i used a stand i use duct tape and a camera tripod...  but hey, it turned out ok.

[PG]

well, i normally say... if it isnt stealthed, it probably isnt worth taping.... i know i will get alot of shit for that, but oh well.  long live stealth taping.  the only time i used a stand i use duct tape and a camera tripod...  but hey, it turned out ok.

Watch out Karl, when the moon is full I hear if you get bitten by a w00k you end up buying a full rig and taping jambands...

[kfrinkle]

Hahahah awesome.  Wooks know to stay the fuck away from me.  I got that nice tall, skinny shaved head + goatee look for the most part, and you know wooks dont like that, they know not to fuck with me.  the only reason i want  a mic stand, is that there are some local bands that i really dig, and they like it when i tape them.  In fact, i rn one of the bands websites for em.  but anyways, now that i have 2 sets of gear for the most part, it would be nice to run rigs from both sides of the venues etc...

+T

well, i normally say... if it isnt stealthed, it probably isnt worth taping.... i know i will get alot of shit for that, but oh well.  long live stealth taping.  the only time i used a stand i use duct tape and a camera tripod...  but hey, it turned out ok.

Watch out Karl, when the moon is full I hear if you get bitten by a w00k you end up buying a full rig and taping jambands...

[nickgregory]

nice over simplification on stand tapes...a bunch of bands out there that aren't jambands allow taping....and yes, I stealth and stand tape...

[kfrinkle]

yes, but are you.... EVIL?

nice over simplification on stand tapes...a bunch of bands out there that aren't jambands allow taping....and yes, I stealth and stand tape...

[PG]

nice over simplification on stand tapes...a bunch of bands out there that aren't jambands allow taping....and yes, I stealth and stand tape...

Oh I know, It just worked into the joke much better that way...

+T

[pfife]

yes, but are you.... EVIL?

I'm fuckin' evil- does that count?

 

[kfrinkle]

well, after looking at your avatar, I realize that you must be really fucking evil.... i mean, we use them to throw people off.. right?  mine is pure evil...

[neognosis]

I'm chaotic neutral.[/d&ddork]

[Evil Taper]

Here's the thing....people keep telling me that if running omnis that i should be taping as close to the stacks as possible.  In my humble personal opinion, the recordings made from this sort of venue location have good sound, but are missing that live ambience that is the live sound in itself.  I ALWAYS stand FOB whether I have gear or not, I think the sound is mixed most purely in this sort of location and also you get to enjoy the throw that the venue has...which sometimes is not a plus I do admit...but it's just such a different sound.  If recording right in front of the stacks you may as well be running a SBD show, since it doesn't have that live warmth that you get FOB anyway.  I know I can really get cocky and sound like an asshole so disregard this shit if you think i'm a retard.  Thanks you evil fuckers.

[pfife]

I've never made the effort to stand close to stacks when using omnis.  I always try to envision an equilateral triangle between the R and L stacks, and me at the point of the triangle.  If you stand like that, you'll get way more ambience with omnis than cards/hypers.

[Evil Taper]

You sure are pro omni when the majority have been giving cards a big round of applause.  So I guess it's all up to personal prefferance.  My concern is that this stupid boomy venue will continually caugh up very bassy recordings using omnis.  So I guess I don't know what to go for.  Shwilly said she uses cmc4s and loves em for metal, recommended those over the 4061s.  SOooooo...who knows.


Off topic, but my mom wants a setup for recording her singing practices, something that will make an accurate vocal reproduction.  What I was looking at was:

MXL 990 Cardiod Condensor for 69.99
Behringer Eurorack UB502 for 49.99
Looking to spend $150 or less total, need something easy to use and decent quality.  That an ok rig for this kind of usage?

[Evil Taper]

Ok, well what about the SP-CMC-16 mics?  These mics use Shure components.  Never hear anyone mention them.

[Evil Taper]

Ok....so fuck running a preamp stealth for phantom power, they're too damn big.  According to the oade site the ua5 is 8.5" and that's way too big to hide anywhere else.  If the 4061s run off a small power unit I think that's probably a much more stealthy option than lugging around more gear.  It's not worth getting some mics that aren't even stealthable, if I want to hear a Claypool show I'm at I'll just score a copy of some guys Schoeps tape.  I'm only lugging my gear for stealth situations.

[pfife]

Ok....so fuck running a preamp stealth for phantom power, they're too damn big.  According to the oade site the ua5 is 8.5" and that's way too big to hide anywhere else.  If the 4061s run off a small power unit I think that's probably a much more stealthy option than lugging around more gear.  It's not worth getting some mics that aren't even stealthable, if I want to hear a Claypool show I'm at I'll just score a copy of some guys Schoeps tape.  I'm only lugging my gear for stealth situations.

phantom power will elicit better results though...  I "stealth" the UA-5 all the time- just never when I have to get it through security.  When you say that Schwill is into the CMC-4, when I've had convo's with him about this, he uses them with a phantom power source, not a battery box, so that's going to be a difference when it comes to microphone performance.

I am very pro-omni- but it's all in your personal tastes!

[Brian Skalinder]

Ok....so fuck running a preamp stealth for phantom power, they're too damn big.  According to the oade site the ua5 is 8.5" and that's way too big to hide anywhere else.

So run an SD MP2 / MixPre / Shure FP24 pre instead.  Definitely stealthable.

[Ed.]

people have stealthed v3s before, pfife stealths his ua5, don't really see what you're getting at when you kids say they're not stealthable.

also, post production might not be needed if you weren't using $50 mics - just saying is all.  for as many shows as i tape, if i had to listen to them on 5-6 different stereos to tweak them everytime i made a show, i'd still be working on shows from 2 years ago.  i commend you for your dedication.  but i'd rather just drop the money and get better equipment, then fix my shows all the time.

and i'd go with the 4061's, i started out running dynamic audio omni mics, never once did i have a problem running fob with them.

[Evil Taper]

Ok cool.  Those mics suck, but they looked good for the money at the time.  If i didn't just blow all my money on xmas i'd buy the new mics.  But next month is just as good.  Not really any shows I wanna go to now anyway.  Thanks.

[Evil Taper]

Off topic as usual, but has anyone ever powered their mics with a phantom power tubed preamp?  I know this wouldn't work outside of your home since these units need to be plugged in, but it's just somethin I was pondering.  I bought a vaccum tube preamp for a studio mic to run, love analog sound for everying.  Possibly running tube processing on master recordings could add a great warmth to them?  I'll fuck around with it once I get it and let you guys know what I think about it.  Just more crap to go over.

But with the CMC8s, how much bottom end are you losing compared to the 4061s?  I've been going through my recordings made with the cmc series mics and have noticed that most of them are lacking the true wetness of the bassdrums.  Will the DPAs preserve the dynamic qualities of the sub range sounds properly?  Anal I know, but why buy something that is going to need an upgrade.  From what I understand, this could just be the trade off between the cardiod pickup versus the omni pickup.  I love ambience, but don't love crowd noise.  Hard choices to make.

[pfife]

Off topic as usual, but has anyone ever powered their mics with a phantom power tubed preamp?  I know this wouldn't work outside of your home since these units need to be plugged in, but it's just somethin I was pondering.

Check out the remote power section!  Almost all preamps used for taping are made for home/studio use but have been made portable by making battery packs for them!

Also, DPA's are known for being a very transparent mic- you are going to get quite accurate reproduction of what was there using DPAs (which may not always be a good thing...)

[Evil Taper]

I am listening to Shwilliys Static-X show from 08-30-04 made with the DPAs and asside from some crowd noise it's a great recording..too bad the lame trader I got it from burned me one from an mp3 source   Never will understand why people ruin great recordings by having them clip between tracks.  But it seems that the omni recordings tend to have more crowd noise...like you're actually there heh.  What kind of battery module do you have to run the DPAs on?  Just a small battery pack like the lame squids i'm running now?

[Tim]

Here's the thing....people keep telling me that if running omnis that i should be taping as close to the stacks as possible.  In my humble personal opinion, the recordings made from this sort of venue location have good sound, but are missing that live ambience that is the live sound in itself.  I ALWAYS stand FOB whether I have gear or not, I think the sound is mixed most purely in this sort of location and also you get to enjoy the throw that the venue has...which sometimes is not a plus I do admit...but it's just such a different sound.  If recording right in front of the stacks you may as well be running a SBD show, since it doesn't have that live warmth that you get FOB anyway.  I know I can really get cocky and sound like an asshole so disregard this shit if you think i'm a retard.  Thanks you evil fuckers.

fwiw - I completely agree. To me stack taping is a last resort, I haven't heard many stack tapes that I actually like....

[Evil Taper]

The bass pickup with these 4061s is sick.  Running a substantial bass boost on the playback and it's flawless.  I'll take that as a trade off for a bit of chatter. 

And what is up with these ticket things?

[Tim]

Off topic as usual, but has anyone ever powered their mics with a phantom power tubed preamp? 

schoeps make dc powered tube mics... I have 3 good friends who run them, 2 are on this board... there are a gew other guys too.

http://posthorn.com/S_m222.html

[Evil Taper]

The name schoeps scares me...prices are insane.  Doesn't anyone else make a tube unit?  It was just an idea I had.
Not shelling out $2000 for mics.

[Tim]

$2000? That would get you 1 power supply, and one body. You'd need another $2k for stereo, oh and another $1500 for a pair of mk41's. not to mention everyting else...

DC powered tubes are expensive, really the schoeps are the only practical ones for our purposes though you could spend about the same and carry a car battery and run some neumann's...

there is a tube mod for the adk a51tl's but they're not DC powerable afaik...

[Evil Taper]

Yeah I didn't think it would be practical, just curious if anyone had played around with the idea.  Maybe once I get new mics I'll record a friends indie band and split the signal, run one through a standard power unit and the other through the phamtom tube pre, to see what kind of sound differance it actually produces.  If you do listen to older aucience recordings like Pink Floyd/The Doors those old analog system sure do make a different sound than the digital gear we use now.  Not saying it's better or worse, just so much warmer than the ultra crisp recordings you get now.

[pfife]

Just a small battery pack like the lame squids i'm running now?

Pretty much.  There are multiple ways to wire them, but they only need that amount of power- whereas many others need full phantom power to run at a peak performance.  There's other boxes DPA makes called MPS boxes- checkem

[zhianosatch]

Here's the thing....people keep telling me that if running omnis that i should be taping as close to the stacks as possible. 

this is a shit-assed mantra and a great way to ruin what might normally be a great tape, partly for the reason you stated. omnis get a bad rap because many users are stupid and don't run them correctly in the first place.
every taping situation is different and has to be handled with your best judgment, which will improve with experience. you can't align yourself with a single technique and not expect to miss golden opportunities with a different one. however, i'll only attempt to stick my head in a stack at a bad religion concert; never have i seen entire crowds moving so much. i fight for the sweet spot at almost every other GA show i attend and my tapes thank me for it.
the dpa 406x series is the best true "stealth" mic available and will make better tapes than any other mics but the high end SD crew (Schoeps, Neumann, DPA, MG, AKG, ETC. etc.).

[zhianosatch]

$2000? That would get you 1 power supply, and one body.

body, schmody!

[Evil Taper]

Well I do think I'm convinced that the DPAs are a better buy than the SPs.  Less shit to haul around means easier crotchability means more shows taped.  Also to trade off a bit of crowd noise for a recording filled with true ambience, definately worth it.  Looks like i'm going to be broke until march, oh well.

[pfife]

Well I do think I'm convinced that the DPAs are a better buy than the SPs.  Less shit to haul around means easier crotchability means more shows taped.  Also to trade off a bit of crowd noise for a recording filled with true ambience, definately worth it.  Looks like i'm going to be broke until march, oh well.

keep searching Ebay dog.  I got mine for $295.  (around $310 shipped...)  Not much more than new SP mics you were talking about getting.

seller was transducer67.  Not the best transaction I've ever had, but they've finally been shipped.


EDIT: actually, someone in the kickdown section just posted a dpa 4061->sp bb-> njb3 source, if you want to sample that.  I dl'd it to hear what it sounds like to be relying on the NJB3 A/Ds.

http://www.taperssection.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=32147.0

HTH
~Andrew

[pfife]

Well I do think I'm convinced that the DPAs are a better buy than the SPs.  Less shit to haul around means easier crotchability means more shows taped.  Also to trade off a bit of crowd noise for a recording filled with true ambience, definately worth it.  Looks like i'm going to be broke until march, oh well.

keep searching Ebay dog.  I got mine for $295.  (around $310 shipped...)  Not much more than new SP mics you were talking about getting.

seller was transducer67.  Not the best transaction I've ever had, but they've finally been shipped.

I hear those can come a bit beat up and altered w/ a Lemo connector for theater apps. Then again, thats a sweet price for a pair of 4061's 

yup- according to schwill, you can cut off the lemos and solder them onto a stereo miniplug and use them w/ a sp bb.  That's what I intend to do when those ho's get here!   

[Evil Taper]

What's the technical name for a Lemo?  Never heard of that one before.

[Tim]

What's the technical name for a Lemo?  Never heard of that one before.

Lemo

[Tim]

lemo.com

[Evil Taper]

I don't suppose that wireless would be an option for our hobby....or would it?

[Tim]

not really.

the mic is hard wired to a battery powered pack which transmits to the reciever out at the board. it would be more crap to bring in and it wouldn't be any more stealthy than just running your mic cables. also there's the chance of interference if the band is using wireless.

[Evil Taper]

Thanks. 

You don't suppose any crazy fuck out there has been keeping an audio archive of all of Mr. Bush's speeches do you?  Could be fun to relive some of those great ones from the past 4 years.

[Tim]

I'm sure there's audio of it all, though I don't know that I could bare to listen...

[pfife]

I bet c-span.org has bunchez of them.

[zhianosatch]

i should scan my 4061 manual for the archive. it describes the mic cleaning process so no one should be afraid of a little makeup and spittle from buying on ebay.

[pfife]

I just got the 4061's today.   Pictures do not even begin to show how small these mics are.  Might want to take that into consideration when making your choice.  Here's a picture of a 4061 beside an AT853 to demonstrate... Its pretty unbelievable.

Now just need to do some soldering (which I totally suck at...)

[Tim]

wow

I had no idea they were that small...

[caymanreview]

wow, that is stealthy!

[pfife]

yeah, I think it would be in their best interest to post something to use as a comparison in their pictures.  Moke said they were the size of a pencil eraser-  I'd agree as long as we are talking about an eraser on one of those mechanical pencils.

I'm pretty stoked about how tiny these ho's are.

[KingReptile]

My friend and I taped Satriani and Deep Purple this past summer.I would say the Dpa 4061"s were better a bit more detailed mainly the cymbals come in better..With the 853s if you dont run phantom power they dont stand a chance of even comparing to the the 4061's..Hopefully we will both share are shows soon on Easytree so you guys can compare the differences..I used to run Core Sound Binarauls and have to say the one great thing about the Dpas is that even at a distance you will get real good results ..I have posted numerous shows that I taped with the 4061's .Heres my list if anybody wants to hear what they sound like mostly interetested in Dat Clones at the Moment but will torrent most of my shows...http://www.angelfire.com/music5/d8maniac/kingreptiles_masters.htm

[kfrinkle]

what about the 4061's?  will they work fine with just bat box power?  I am thinking more along the lines of anyhting that i could use for upcoming tool tour...  has to be small, and bringing smoe honky ass metal thing to power mics just aint gonna cut it...  im too freaking nervous in the first place...

My friend and I taped Satriani and Deep Purple this past summer.I would say the Dpa 4061"s were better a bit more detailed mainly the cymbals come in better..With the 853s if you dont run phantom power they dont stand a chance of even comparing to the the 4061's..Hopefully we will both share are shows soon on Easytree so you guys can compare the differences..I used to run Core Sound Binarauls and have to say the one great thing about the Dpas is that even at a distance you will get real good results ..I have posted numerous shows that I taped with the 4061's .Heres my list if anybody wants to hear what they sound like mostly interetested in Dat Clones at the Moment but will torrent most of my shows...http://www.angelfire.com/music5/d8maniac/kingreptiles_masters.htm

[Ed.]

there were some 4061's on the live rh board i'm on going for $600 that came with a battery box that was made from an old cell phone casing.  the bat box looked exactly like a cell phone, i dunno if they're still available.  but it could be an idea if you wanted to make your own.  seems easy enuf.

[KingReptile]

If ya go with the DPA battery box there small and plastic ..Roughly as big as a pac of cigs.They dont have rolloff i used them  line in before i had mine modded and had great results..Sometime after the first of the year i can maybe loan ya  a set that I have with a coresound heb  bat box ..If you bought the dpas from Oade with bb your looking at $850..

[Evil Taper]

Doesn't a plastic bat box run the risk of interferance from the stage electronics?  I read something about the lead casing of most batt boxes act as a shield against such things.

[kfrinkle]

ouch, somethin tells me its gonna be awhile before i get those...  my cards terminate in a 1/8" stereo mini-plug.  are there phantom power sources out that that accept such plugs (instead of XLR)...


\

If ya go with the DPA battery box there small and plastic ..Roughly as big as a pac of cigs.They dont have rolloff i used them  line in before i had mine modded and had great results..Sometime after the first of the year i can maybe loan ya  a set that I have with a coresound heb  bat box ..If you bought the dpas from Oade with bb your looking at $850..

[Evil Taper]

When using the 4061 do you really need and A/D or can you just power them with a standard batt box?

[pfife]

When using the 4061 do you really need and A/D or can you just power them with a standard batt box?

You can use a standard battery box. 

[Brian Skalinder]

When using the 4061 do you really need and A/D or can you just power them with a standard batt box?

FWIW, an A/D (aka ADC) doesn't have anything to do with powering the mics.  I think you're asking if the 4061s require phantom power or not.  And PFife already answered that one:  phantom power not required, battery box power okay.

[pfife]

actually, I've read from people here that true phantom power will fry 'em.    gotta get the DAD6001's and filter the +48 down in order to use them.  So actually, I think its better to say that you really should use a bb.

That's what I think is advantageous about these mics- they are really running at peak performance w/ a battery box, thus phatom power is really overkill, and not needed.

someone please correct me if I am giving bad info here.

[kfrinkle]

yeah, i am getting really confused on all this.  what about a denecke ad-20?  i know it is still only 9v, but will that clean things up? i can even get a 2 xlr to mini plug adapter for that if i have to.  that was the one great thing about my CSBs, they never had this sort of problem...  thinking about using those for the uber loud shows...

actually, I've read from people here that true phantom power will fry 'em.    gotta get the DAD6001's and filter the +48 down in order to use them.  So actually, I think its better to say that you really should use a bb.

That's what I think is advantageous about these mics- they are really running at peak performance w/ a battery box, thus phatom power is really overkill, and not needed.

someone please correct me if I am giving bad info here.

[pfife]

AD-20 doesn't do any powering either.  My sig has what you can do- My experience (but others differ)  is that you'll need attenuator(s) between the bb and ad-20, as the ad-20 gives +17db of gain even when the gain nobs are turned all the way down.

AS far as quality, I'm working on the assumption that the a/ds and pre are better than those that are stock in the NJB3.

[kfrinkle]

what about either of these two beasties?

http://www.micsupply.com/phantompower.htm

i could get the correct adapters to go from xlr to 1/8" male and vice versa to go to jukebox....  althoug i am confused on the 9v versus 48v, being unable to figure out any sort of engineering concepts due to the fact that I am a math nerd.

[pfife]

Overkill if you are planning to go with the 4061's.  You can just solder them both to a stereo 1/8" plug, and plug that into a standard battery box (like either one in your signature) and then:

1/8" to (2)XLRM splitter -> Shure Attenuators -> AD-20

or

attenuator (theres one on mic supply) -> 1/8" to (2)XLRM splitter -> AD-20.

I can post a pic of the first option if you'd like- it'll be a couple hours or so- gotta get home from work first...

[kfrinkle]

well to be honest, i wont be upgrading my rig until i get hired somewhere, and that wont start until august.  but for 150 bucks or so, that aint a bad way to go.  and to be honest, i was thinking about that ad-20 for my csbs.  the signal is soooo low on them that at isis i had to boost the wav form by 20db after i dumped it off the jukebox, whereas the CMC-8s got a tad bit of that fuzziness i encoutnered at manson earlier this week.

[pfife]

well to be honest, i wont be upgrading my rig until i get hired somewhere, and that wont start until august.  but for 150 bucks or so, that aint a bad way to go.  and to be honest, i was thinking about that ad-20 for my csbs.  the signal is soooo low on them that at isis i had to boost the wav form by 20db after i dumped it off the jukebox, whereas the CMC-8s got a tad bit of that fuzziness i encoutnered at manson earlier this week.

the ad-20 will definately boost your levels.

What was the fuzziness - from peaking?

[kfrinkle]

no, i think frmo too high of SPL levels, if it was peaking, then i would just lower the volume, but when i looked at the wavform, it maxed out at -6db or so, so plenty of room in the aspect...  this has only been happening recently with these mics, and i have to say that these have been a couple of the louder shows that i have taped since i got these CMC-8s.  very annoying this little problem.  i thought i had it all figured out.  i hope the mics themselves are not fucked up somehow, i take really great care of them.

[pfife]

no, i think frmo too high of SPL levels, if it was peaking, then i would just lower the volume, but when i looked at the wavform, it maxed out at -6db or so, so plenty of room in the aspect...  this has only been happening recently with these mics, and i have to say that these have been a couple of the louder shows that i have taped since i got these CMC-8s.  very annoying this little problem.  i thought i had it all figured out.  i hope the mics themselves are not fucked up somehow, i take really great care of them.

ah, I figured- if you do a little search, I think there are a number of postings where people are reporting problems with the SP version of the AT's not handling high SPL's when running from a battery box.  Phantom power would help those mics handle higher SPL.

[kfrinkle]

yeah, i just need to find some cheap and stealthy way of doing this. i  am a poor grad student, and alot of the concerts i go to in the first place i have won tickets to or someone put me on the guest list.  so in otherwords...  cheap and stealthy (as already stated).

no, i think frmo too high of SPL levels, if it was peaking, then i would just lower the volume, but when i looked at the wavform, it maxed out at -6db or so, so plenty of room in the aspect...  this has only been happening recently with these mics, and i have to say that these have been a couple of the louder shows that i have taped since i got these CMC-8s.  very annoying this little problem.  i thought i had it all figured out.  i hope the mics themselves are not fucked up somehow, i take really great care of them.

ah, I figured- if you do a little search, I think there are a number of postings where people are reporting problems with the SP version of the AT's not handling high SPL's when running from a battery box.  Phantom power would help those mics handle higher SPL.

[pfife]

a number of people have done the "un-mod" to the mics that soundpros offers as a power option (which basically returns them to stock...) - it doesn't look that difficult.  Then you could power them with that PS-2.

Edit:  But I am not sure how you'd go from the PS-2 to the NJB3 w/o something else in the chain... maybe line transformers and a Y calbe or something?  I don't know anything about transformers, but there was a thread that was something like PS-2 -> NJB3 or something like that.

PS-2s are pretty widely available for right around $100 used...

[kfrinkle]

yeah, i am just gonna have to spend some time trying to figure this shit the fuck out. i  really dont want to fuck up my mics though, as i truly love them.  my dad is coming out my way in february for a visit, so maybe i can con him into helping fix them when he does, being the genius that he is. I  got to do it before the big Tool tour, but i got to make sure that my gear is still stealthy.  i am a nervous wreck when it comes to sneaking gear in.

[Evil Taper]

Heh....it looks as though all of Team Evil is going to be running 4061s when we get the cash rounded up.  Can't wait to see some fucking awesome sounding metal shows trickle out of here.  But keep the team alive guys....and hook me up with some shows cuz I am antsy for some new stuff.  I shall return the favor.  Thanks.

[peterbilt]

hehehe....Team Evil

FWIW
I used to run the SP cmc4's>BB>D8 and then added an AD20 between the BB without any attenuators. When I ran with just the BB I found that the cmc4's did not handle the high SPL that I always seem to run into. I also never ran the BB with any rolloff which in hindsight might have been a better option as to lower the immmense bottom end of some of my friends bass rigs.
The few times I ran BB>AD20 there was one perfect example of the AD20 adding too much without the mentioned attenuators. Burnt By The Sun at the Penny Arcade. Man do I wish I had had my SP's modded for phanom power or at least run some attenuators! During the less powerfull sections of songs I got really great tone and nice signal levls but when they came through with the heaviness, Teddy's bass just crushed all hope of no saturation of the sound..it was just too damn much!
With that in mind, if I were to run the SP's again I would definitely have them modded for phantom power and run the PS2>Ad20...but I think if I ever decide to run a super stealthy setup I would definitely go DPA.

And as for the spreading of evil.....Sulaco and Psyopus.. Christmas night bitchez!!!!!!!!!

[kfrinkle]

http://www.easytree.org/torrents-details.php?id=19288

how the fuck is that? 

http://www.easytree.org/torrents-details.php?id=19299

and manson too....

Heh....it looks as though all of Team Evil is going to be running 4061s when we get the cash rounded up.  Can't wait to see some fucking awesome sounding metal shows trickle out of here.  But keep the team alive guys....and hook me up with some shows cuz I am antsy for some new stuff.  I shall return the favor.  Thanks.

[pfife]

Burnt By The Sun at the Penny Arcade.

Great band.  I loved... let me repeat... LOVED Human Remains.  I emailed their guitarist about open taping them this tour, and he was totally down with it- I just fruited cause it was 2 hours away on a night I had to work the next morning...

[peterbilt]

If someones got some DPA's and a BB I can borrow I might be talked into stealthing Suffocation in February!

[pfife]

If someones got some DPA's and a BB I can borrow I might be talked into stealthing Suffocation in February!

I already am planning to do that- where are you going to see them?  BTW- Behemoth, who they are touring with?  Fucking disgustingly awesome. 

I'll be seein them in Detroit.

[kfrinkle]

i taped behemoth last year with 6 feet under, as i lay dying and skinless, bad ass show for sure.

If someones got some DPA's and a BB I can borrow I might be talked into stealthing Suffocation in February!

I already am planning to do that- where are you going to see them?  BTW- Behemoth, who they are touring with?  Fucking disgustingly awesome. 

I'll be seein them in Detroit.

[pfife]

skinless is great too!

[peterbilt]

Suffocation is playing the Penny Arcade which is a pretty easy venue to smuggle shit into.

Is Skinless on tour too? I haven't seen them since the tattoo fest in Woodstock where they were tossing budweiser cans into the crowd! Shit beer but good fun!

[pfife]

continuing the band talk in the actual team evil thread.  represent!

[Ekib]

I have been using Core Sound Cardioid mics' for about 7 years now.(the $ 250 version).I have had very good results with them.I like the "directness" these mic's provide.Usually I end up having a very good recording which I don't have to do too much about concerning mixing etc.
I am mainly taping metalshows and I would definitely recommend those.

[zhianosatch]

Don't waste your money on anything from Core Sound except maybe HEBs. No offense to Ekib intended.

[pfife]

Don't waste your money on anything from Core Sound except maybe HEBs. No offense to Ekib intended.

[Ekib]

Don't waste your money on anything from Core Sound except maybe HEBs. No offense to Ekib intended

Zhianosatch...So why don't you like Core-Sound?And more interesting what stuff do you use than that you think is better?When it comes to stealth taping I would't know better sounding mic's than they have.But who knows what I am missing.
Have you really heard recordings made with CSCD anyway?

[Evil Taper]

Core Sound HEBs are just modded 4061s and cost hella cash.

[Evil Taper]

That's it....everyone should just go out and buy some friggin Schoeps already. 

[firmdragon]

FOB vs FOS

i choose FOS unless i have a sbd rig going.  mainly because in my experience ppl tend to talk less in front of a speaker.

[Evil Taper]

Wasn't this topic already discussed in this thread?  It's up to you though...if you want a less ambient, less realistic recording instead of crowd noise then FOS is good.  FOB you can move around a bit to try to get away from chatters but IMO the recordings sounds alot more realistic and you get the live ambience from the venue that you're missing when you record FOS.  Venues color the sound which in some cases can be a negative addition to the recording, but when you record FOS you can end up with very unbalanced sound and it can sound like you recorded it off of someones stereo.  In the end though, it's up to the taper.

[zhianosatch]

Don't waste your money on anything from Core Sound except maybe HEBs. No offense to Ekib intended

Zhianosatch...So why don't you like Core-Sound?

there are many reasons.

And more interesting what stuff do you use than that you think is better?

i use dpa 4061s. for less than the price of "core sound cardioids" you can get a pair of powered AT831s from sound pro that will destroy all competitors under $300. i keep my 831s as a backup and loan them out to friends.

When it comes to stealth taping I would't know better sounding mic's than they have.

i hear ya, man. for some reason, core sound has a good reputation among internet traders...

But who knows what I am missing.

stick around ts.com and you'll find out! i know i did. you should read some of my early posts!

Have you really heard recordings made with CSCD anyway?

yes, a few. and i'm sorry to say that they all sounded like ass. again, no offense to you intended.
sorry for taking so long to reply!

[neognosis]

in my experience ppl tend to talk less in front of a speaker.

That's funny.  In my experience people tend to talk whenever they get close to my mics.   

It's only the real idiots who try to hold a conversation right in front of the stacks though.