Topic: Mic Suggestions for nature work - Low Noise, < $1000 USD.

[digifish_music]

Most condensers are AF condensers and the charge on the very high impedance capsule tends to leak away on water molecules in the air causing noise and crackles.

Sizzling is a common experience.

digifish.

[audBall]

My suggestion of the MS setup was not to say that "spending more will produce better results".  While they certainly aren't 'budget setups', the flexibility of a card/fig-8 can give multiple results in the end (i.e. fine tuning). 

I'm also aware of the high polarization of the capsules possibly leading to pops/clicks.  Many of us are using the mics outdoors with great success.  I know my 1k's offer such polarization and it has worried me at times, but never produced any audible effects that I noticed.  Granted I'm not booming my mics over a swamp in NOLA, either. 

Do companies like Schoeps and Neumann suggest that their mics never be used outdoors?

[db]

For nature sounds the standard is to use Sennheiser MKH microphones because of the immunity to damp - but these are above the budget I'm afraid.
I do know of nature recordists who have great success with the Sennheiser K6 series - which *is* within budget - and the K6+ME64 is the cardioid version.  You don't need special matched pairs as manufacturing tolerances are tight to make random mics a matched pair.

the k6 or k6p me66 & 64 is a good way to go. well under 1k for module, cardioid, & shotgun $700ish. good sounding, aa battery operation and phantom (w/k6). i use this for film stuff. it's pretty hot and can't be used for p.a. recording unless you have the sennheiser service damp them down-- but for chirps, buzzes, and woodpecker sounds it's perfect.

[Barry S]

For film and video dialogue work, I'd agree that the ME64/K6 and ME66/K6 mics are pretty good.  Durable, unaffected by weather, and a nice hot signal.  I'm much less enthusiastic about using either combination for nature or ambient sound recordings.  They just don't have a very natural sound and can sound a bit harsh and thin.  With voice work, you can overcome this with some EQ--at least to some extent.  For nature/ambient, I just don't think these mics are a good fit.  At least I've never been happy with that application because of the unnatural coloration of the recordings.  A lot of people go with the K6 combinations because of the self-powering, but with the MixPre, you have more options with the phantom power.  Maybe a matched pair of Oktava MK012's.  You'd need shock mounts and Rycote baby ball gags, but you'd  still be well under $1K.  The Oktava's aren't as sensitive as the ME64/K6, but with the MixPre, I'd think you'd be fine.

[ghellquist]

One idea is to check on the renting market. I guess you could rent a MKH40 + Rycote windshield a lot of times for $1000.

Gunnar

[db]

have not experienced much in the way of lifelessness or harsh tones with the me66/64/k6. but i've only run them through a mme and sd442 and have not self-powered them in many moons.  if we're shooting for excellence, look for a used cmc6/mk41. should be around 1k.

[digifish_music]

Thanks for the suggestions so far...I will definitely check out the Sennheisers.

digifish.

[cmquinn]

Look up Dan Gibson microphone. You will find a parabolic mic for recording far off sounds. Ever watch a football game and see those guys on the sideline with a big clear parabolic dish. That is a Dan Gibson microphone. They are available on ebay fairly often.

[spzkt]

I've been getting good results with AT-3032 omni's. The members of the naturerecordists group have found they have significantly lower self noise than manufacturers specs.

I'm using a rig based on a setup Curt Olson put together - see last rig on Curt's page here: http://www.trackseventeen.com/soundscapes/mic_rigs.html

with some added wind protection

http://www.mactrix.com.au/files/Image074.jpg
http://www.mactrix.com.au/files/Image075.jpg

There is a mp3 edit of a recent recording I made with this setup here:

http://www.mactrix.com.au/files/recordings/MtSamaria_Edit.mp3

cheers
Paul

[digifish_music]

I've been getting good results with AT-3032 omni's. The members of the naturerecordists group have found they have significantly lower self noise than manufacturers specs.

cheers
Paul

Hey thanks Paul, great post.

I am always up for a new set of mics, I can't help myself

Your recording is fabulous, sounds tropical...thanks. Looking at the rigs it does appear to be a combination of binaural and XY...and possibly even a bit of boundary effect

...great!

BTW: I checked out ...

http://www.mactrix.com.au/recording/environmental_recordings

...not sure if you are aware of Freesound...

Heres's my page...

http://freesound.iua.upf.edu/usersViewSingle.php?id=29541

geotagging is particularly nice with feld recordings e.g....

http://freesound.iua.upf.edu/geotagsView.php?lon=145.334208011627&lat=-16.2729859463468&zoom=15

Wait for the red tags to apear and click on them to preview. To download the high-quality recordings you need to be registered on the site (like this place)...

digifish

[ambo]

Another vote for the AT3032's. I also bought these on recommendations from naturerecordist.org. They sound great for acoustic music as well and work very well in humid conditions.

[wbrisette]

Thanks. Budget can stretch...but ouch, if the mics are $2000 I'll be waving $3000 at the shrubbery and that makes me nervous, one reason I really like the C2's is I don't care if they are destroyed.

I don't know what the MKH418S is going for down there, but it might be worth looking at. I was able to pick one up new here in the states for not much more than the $1000 price tag you're going after (it was however a dealer open box).

Wayne

[spzkt]

Hey thanks Paul, great post.

I am always up for a new set of mics, I can't help myself

Your recording is fabulous, sounds tropical...thanks. Looking at the rigs it does appear to be a combination of binaural and XY...and possibly even a bit of boundary effect

...great!

Wait for the red tags to apear and click on them to preview. To download the high-quality recordings you need to be registered on the site (like this place)...

digifish

hey thanks digifish,

the recording was done at mt samaria state park, north of Mansfield in Northern Victoria, approx 800m ASL, at 5.30am, and temps were close zero C.

The audio files will be moved off the current site in the near future to a new site that I'm working on.  I'm quite interested in the geotagged audio aspect and have an account over at freesound.  haven't put anything up there as yet. The site I'm working on will eventual integrate geotagged audio, but that means lots for recording trip's first

At the moment I'd without recorder... I've just sold my MZ-RH1 and received an email this morning from Doug Oade that he will be shipping my supermod'd HD-P2 on friday, so it's looking like friday week before I'll be able to do some more recordings.


cheers
Paul

[spzkt]

Digifish,

here a few more links that might be of interest:

there are some excellent student reports documenting various stereo boundary arrays, including Curt Olson type setups here: http://diystereoboundarymics.blogspot.com . These were done by students of naturerecordists list stalwart Rob Danielson.

The "discovery" of the AT-3032 is documented in this post to naturerecordists  http://bioacoustics.cse.unsw.edu.au/archives/html/naturerecordists/2005-11/msg00190.html  which says in part:

The oddity is that the specs on the AT3032 are good, but that the microphone is much better than the spec.
I measure my single sample of the 3032 at 8 dB(A) self noise, or about 3-4 dB better than either the Sennheiser MKH30 or the Schoeps MK2 (my reference standard). 

Walt Knapp also has some fantastic info on building Crown SASS arrays, which he mods to take different mics. He primarily records with Sennheiser MKH series mics, but there are also clips made using AT3032's in the same rig for comparison.

http://frogrecordist.home.mindspring.com/docs/mod_sass.html


cheers
Paul

[digifish_music]

Thanks Paul, more interesting reads. 

digifish