Topic: Best taping methods/gear to record in "boomy" venues?

[su6oxone]

I've searched this topic quite a bit since I've been getting some boomy sounding recordings in a venue that has a lot of great acts the come through, but all my previous recordings have sounded poor due to the "boominess." 

In my past three tapings, I've used CA-11 w/cardioid caps in A-B configuration in a hat along with the CA-9100 preamp w/high pass filter set to "off" and an Edirol R-09. 

From the posts that I've read, it seems these are the best ways to get a good recording in a boomy venue:

1. Use hypercardioids in XY configuration.
2. Use high pass filter in the 9100 or use bass-roll off in a battery box.
3. Tape close to the stacks (difficult to do in the venue as the speakers are mounted from a rather high ceiling).

Is this the best way to go about getting a non-boomy recording in a boomy venue?  Any other suggestions?  Thanks in advance for any input 

[Roving Sign]

Get them out of the hat as much as possible...the more air you can put around the mic...the better...

I like NOS pattern for cards...might not be do-able for hat taping...

[Jhurlbs81]

1. Use hypercardioids in XY configuration.
2. Use high pass filter in the 9100 or use bass-roll off in a battery box.

I've never ran hypercardiods in XY so I can't speak to that, but I'd try your HPF, or roll off.  Experiment and see what works for you.  Some of the bands and rooms I tape are not ideal, and if I get a boomy recording I like to try to find that resonant frequency in a graphic EQ on my editor.  Just move along and drop each frequency then put it back to level until you find where the "boom" is, then adjust accordingly.  When I tape the Disco Biscuits I usually always drop one fader down on the EQ between 250-150hz to my liking.  With the roll off you lose all the low end when it might only be a small band of frequencies that are bothersome to you.  Good luck

Jesse

[su6oxone]

1. Use hypercardioids in XY configuration.
2. Use high pass filter in the 9100 or use bass-roll off in a battery box.

I've never ran hypercardiods in XY so I can't speak to that, but I'd try your HPF, or roll off.  Experiment and see what works for you.  Some of the bands and rooms I tape are not ideal, and if I get a boomy recording I like to try to find that resonant frequency in a graphic EQ on my editor.  Just move along and drop each frequency then put it back to level until you find where the "boom" is, then adjust accordingly.  When I tape the Disco Biscuits I usually always drop one fader down on the EQ between 250-150hz to my liking.  With the roll off you lose all the low end when it might only be a small band of frequencies that are bothersome to you.  Good luck

Jesse

Thanks for the replies guys, +Ts...

I'm wondering if I'm using the correct terminology.  When I say "boomy," I mean that the recording sounds a bit distant (even if recorded in a small venue), like if you used some concert hall setting in your EQ maybe.  Kind of "echo-y" maybe?  I assume that's what people meant when they say "boomy" so hopefully this is the right problem that I'm trying to get help on 

[Church-Audio]

1. Use hypercardioids in XY configuration.
2. Use high pass filter in the 9100 or use bass-roll off in a battery box.

I've never ran hypercardiods in XY so I can't speak to that, but I'd try your HPF, or roll off.  Experiment and see what works for you.  Some of the bands and rooms I tape are not ideal, and if I get a boomy recording I like to try to find that resonant frequency in a graphic EQ on my editor.  Just move along and drop each frequency then put it back to level until you find where the "boom" is, then adjust accordingly.  When I tape the Disco Biscuits I usually always drop one fader down on the EQ between 250-150hz to my liking.  With the roll off you lose all the low end when it might only be a small band of frequencies that are bothersome to you.  Good luck

Jesse

Thanks for the replies guys, +Ts...

I'm wondering if I'm using the correct terminology.  When I say "boomy," I mean that the recording sounds a bit distant (even if recorded in a small venue), like if you used some concert hall setting in your EQ maybe.  Kind of "echo-y" maybe?  I assume that's what people meant when they say "boomy" so hopefully this is the right problem that I'm trying to get help on 

Dont bother with my hpf run them flat most arena bass mud is around 100hz to 150hz. But there is no hard and fast rule. Flat is better then when you take the recording home you can try and fix the bass.

[su6oxone]

Dont bother with my hpf run them flat most arena bass mud is around 100hz to 150hz. But there is no hard and fast rule. Flat is better then when you take the recording home you can try and fix the bass.

Thanks for the input Chris.  When's the appropriate situation to use the hpf? 

[Church-Audio]

Dont bother with my hpf run them flat most arena bass mud is around 100hz to 150hz. But there is no hard and fast rule. Flat is better then when you take the recording home you can try and fix the bass.

Thanks for the input Chris.  When's the appropriate situation to use the hpf? 

When your using omni mics in a boomy room. My Cardioids rarely need the HPF in boomy rooms...

[Belexes]

Run ORTF if you can in a boomy room.

[su6oxone]

Run ORTF if you can in a boomy room.

Thx Chris and Belexes.  Will ORTF decrease the 'boominess' of the recording? 

[Belexes]

Less of the ambient room characteristics are picked up with ORTF.

[F.O.Bean]

Less of the ambient room characteristics are picked up with ORTF.

WHAT? I think youve got that backwards my man ORTF is 17cm spacing w/ an angle of 110 degrees, which opens the mics up to MORE room ambience, not less

I would try running Hypers if possible. But what you described isnt 'boominess'. youre describinga achoey room sound, not boominess. I would call boominess a characteristic of a recording w/ TOO much bass/lowend. Sounds like you need to get closer. If your recordings are 'boomy' and have too much bass, then I wouldnt go closer to the stacks/sound source, because the closer you get(too close) proximity effect will kick in and you'll get even a more 'boomy' recording than you had initially

I would run cards closer to the stage if your problem is echoey-ness. Have you been far from the sound source in your past 'boomy' efforts?

Can you post a sample of what youre trying to explain? thats the only way we can make a certain suggestion to try and help you out

[F0CKER]

I'd avoid using HPF is you can get away without it.  Try reducing the angle less than 90 or 110 to reduce ambient / room noise.  Hypers would help as well.

[F0CKER]

Less of the ambient room characteristics are picked up with ORTF.

I always thought the greater the angle = increased room characteristics.

[Belexes]

ORTF:

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/chris.burmajster/O.htm

http://homerecording.about.com/od/microphones101/ss/stereo_mics_3.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ORTF_stereo_technique

ORTF is perfect for terrible acoustics in a room, cardoid mics. With hypers, I use DINa.

[F0CKER]

good info, +T