Author Topic: What's wrong with my new SP gear?? (sample included) (Read 11814 times)

livingdna · « **on:** April 27, 2011, 03:07:35 PM »

Did a test of my new mics+bat box when Nouvelle Vague visited Aarhus. Sadly the result was far from ideal:
http://www.2shared.com/audio/Y9iTkNyY/NVsample.html

Used following linage: SP-CMC-8 --> SPSB-11 --> iRiver H140 (with Safety option under automatic gain control - however this wasn't activated as I had set the gain sufficiently low (16 dB)).

Can anyone point me in the right direction as to what went wrong? Preferable before Friday when I hope to be able to do a better recording

acidjack · « **Reply #1 on:** April 27, 2011, 05:34:58 PM »

That is clearly overloading, but the question is from where.

If you were not running line-in, that is probably the cause. You should always run mics>BB>line-in unless you cannot get enough gain. I would also never activate that gain control feature as those are far from precise and not designed for music recording.

If you were running line-in, that sounds like the mic overloading to me. Do you have the "low sensitivity mod"? If you do not, you probably need to send the mics back and have it done. If you don't have that done, and you're already going line-in, and you're recording loud bands, you're going to be out of luck.

mr qpl · « **Reply #2 on:** April 27, 2011, 05:47:47 PM »

try changing the battery, could be dead

livingdna · « **Reply #3 on:** April 28, 2011, 03:01:46 AM »

Thanks for input.
I did use line-in and battery is fully charged.

SP recommended me not to go for the low sensitivity option, since I would be recording both loud and quiet gigs. Would I be better off with adding the low sensitivity option?

Another thing I just realized. I forgot to adjust the roll-off switches in the battery box. Thus all switches were closed except for no. 1. I can't find info about what this does but it's not the no-roll-off (16 Hz) option. Could this be the explanation of the overload?

acidjack · « **Reply #4 on:** April 28, 2011, 11:24:49 AM »

Bass rolloff has nothing to do with distortion. SP gave you bad advice. You need the low sensitivity mod to record loud sources, period.

I would not recommend using the bass rolloff on that box at all. It can have unpredictable results, and it's easier to do it in post where you can compare/contrast different levels of rolloff. Those were more useful back in the DAT/MD days when it was hard to do post-processing.

kfrinkle · « **Reply #5 on:** April 28, 2011, 12:00:24 PM »

I tried the low sensitivity options with the SP mics, going into a SP battery box (9v) into MicroTrack 24/96. I never ever ever got good results (distortion always in loud environments, regardless of the levels going into the MT). I even had the three-wire mod done to them. It always agitated me that some people running a Sony TCD-D8 with the same set-up otherwise would get decent results. I quit, got some Church Audio mics + preamp and a Sony PCM-M10 and could not be happier (well ok, I would like some MBHOs, but thats being picky). Dump the SP mics, get some Church Audios instead, or spend a serious amount of money on the higher end mics. After yeards of tweaking with my SP mics, I gave up on them, don't learn the lesson the hard way.

mattmiller · « **Reply #6 on:** April 28, 2011, 12:13:29 PM »

I used the CMC-8s for YEARS (2002-2009) with their SPSB-1 battery box and never had any problems with them being overloaded until one time in 2009 when a very bass-heavy room gave me some distortion in the low end. In response, I had them modded to mini-XLR to use the AT phantom power supplies. That upgrade cost as much as the CMC-8s did in 2002 (the mod was free with the purchase of the two power supplies at more than $100 each). A few months later, I made the jump to some Neumann KM140s, so I haven't used the CMC-8s much in the last year and a half. I tape exclusively loud rock shows, although I can't say for sure how loud my shows were in comparison to the ones you're taping. In short, I wouldn't give up on the CMC-8s. I'd call or e-mail Chris at SP and see what he thinks. He'd probably even be willing to listen to your sample to try to diagnose the problem.

acidjack · « **Reply #7 on:** April 28, 2011, 12:25:25 PM »

Quote from: kfrinkle on April 28, 2011, 12:00:24 PM

I tried the low sensitivity options with the SP mics, going into a SP battery box (9v) into MicroTrack 24/96. I never ever ever got good results (distortion always in loud environments, regardless of the levels going into the MT). I even had the three-wire mod done to them. It always agitated me that some people running a Sony TCD-D8 with the same set-up otherwise would get decent results. I quit, got some Church Audio mics + preamp and a Sony PCM-M10 and could not be happier (well ok, I would like some MBHOs, but thats being picky). Dump the SP mics, get some Church Audios instead, or spend a serious amount of money on the higher end mics. After yeards of tweaking with my SP mics, I gave up on them, don't learn the lesson the hard way.

Are you referring to the "CMC-8" aka AT 933? I never had any problem with those, or with the adapter and U853 caps I was using with them. But mine had the low sensitivity mod. Church are fine mics, but I don't think it's necessary for the OP to spend another $200 on mics when all that he probably needs is a $20 mod that SP should have told him to get in the first place, as far as I can tell.

fmaderjr · « **Reply #8 on:** April 28, 2011, 01:19:04 PM »

Quote from: livingdna on April 28, 2011, 03:01:46 AM

Another thing I just realized. I forgot to adjust the roll-off switches in the battery box. Thus all switches were closed except for no. 1. I can't find info about what this does but it's not the no-roll-off (16 Hz) option. Could this be the explanation of the overload?

On my 10 year old SP battery box there is no setting at which only switch 1 is supposed to be open. It's possible that that is the problem. For minimum roll off, switches 2, 3, & 4 should be open. The recording doesn't really look or sound like a brick walled recording to me and the show does not sound particularly loud. It sounds fairly decent to me except maybe for the bass.

However even if I am correct, as acidjack says, when recording loud stuff you will run into trouble without the low sensitivity mod even with correct settings on the battery box.

SmokinJoe · « **Reply #9 on:** April 28, 2011, 01:58:31 PM »

CMC-8's aka AT933 family are designed by AT to be used in a "3 wire mode". I mean... that's the way AT builds them... 2 wires for signal plus 1 for ground. SP and others connect 2 of the 3 wires together, making them into 2 wire mics, because that way they can make a stereo pair which uses a standards TRS minijack (shared ground between the 2 mics). But then they overload on loud conditions. There is a "low sensitivity mod" which Chris Church created, more for AT853's than 933's, and SP adopted it. Chris has said he doesn't think the 900 series benefit, although others have debated that in multiple threads. Another approach is to use a 3 wire battery box which goes back to using the mics as they were intended. Then you use either mini-xlr's on the ends of the mics, or separate TRS connectors on each mic, into a battery box that's made for the purpose. If you decide to go that route, I'd suggest you get the battery box and reconnection done by the same person, because there is no absolute wiring standard on some of that stuff.

While most recorders wouldn't want to use AGC, if you are using a Rockboxed iRiver, using the AGC in "safety" mode is fine. I always do. What it allows you to do is set the gain up a bit, and it will "ratchet down" a bit as required. If the incoming signal is so hot that it ratchets down below 0 you are in trouble, because once you go much below zero that means you are overloading the input to the iRiver, and distortion will be the result regardless of the meters looking fine.

George · « **Reply #10 on:** April 28, 2011, 02:42:50 PM »

I've had the mini xlr/3 wire mod from SP for my at853's for years, even before I heard of Church Audio. I've never had any distortion with mine.

livingdna · « **Reply #11 on:** April 30, 2011, 05:09:00 AM »

Talked with Chris from SP, but so far we haven't been able to identify the problem. I am leaning towards it's the lack of low sensitivity option, but I will also be surprised if that's the case since the music really wasn't that loud..

Tonite I will do a recording with my old SP mics and the new battery box to eliminate that the problem is with the box.

On a side note: What would be the better gain control setting to use? Am using iRiver H140 with rockbox, which is offering options such as Safety, Live etc.
Or would I be better of not using automatic gain control and if so what would be a good level for the gain level?

Church-Audio · « **Reply #12 on:** April 30, 2011, 09:17:37 AM »

Quote from: livingdna on April 30, 2011, 05:09:00 AM

Talked with Chris from SP, but so far we haven't been able to identify the problem. I am leaning towards it's the lack of low sensitivity option, but I will also be surprised if that's the case since the music really wasn't that loud..

Tonite I will do a recording with my old SP mics and the new battery box to eliminate that the problem is with the box.

On a side note: What would be the better gain control setting to use? Am using iRiver H140 with rockbox, which is offering options such as Safety, Live etc.
Or would I be better of not using automatic gain control and if so what would be a good level for the gain level?

I am not trying to sell you something well.. maybe but actually the best option for you is my 9200 or 9100 preamp with my 4.7k mod in it. It allows you to run the mics high sens or low sens and switch between the two so that you can have the best of both worlds.
You might find one on the garage sale section here or you can get one from me. The problem with these mics is they do overload at way less sound pressure when wired in 2 wire mode. Around 10 to 15% thd @ 114 db @ 1k from my measurements.
Chris

livingdna · « **Reply #13 on:** May 22, 2011, 01:45:57 PM »

A little update:

I did 2 further recordings to test my new equipment. On both recordings I used the new SB11 battery box, with a pair of BMC-6. One recording was flawless. The other had slight overloading, but nothing compared to the previous recording with CMC-8. The overloading can most likely be ascribed to the extremely loud sound level (the band was Swans). This leads me to believe that acidjack is spot on with the lack of "low sensitivity option" being the cause.

Quote from: Church-Audio on April 30, 2011, 09:17:37 AM

I am not trying to sell you something well.. maybe but actually the best option for you is my 9200 or 9100 preamp with my 4.7k mod in it. It allows you to run the mics high sens or low sens and switch between the two so that you can have the best of both worlds.
You might find one on the garage sale section here or you can get one from me. The problem with these mics is they do overload at way less sound pressure when wired in 2 wire mode. Around 10 to 15% thd @ 114 db @ 1k from my measurements.
Chris

So if the problem really is the lack of low sensitivity option, your preamp could solve it? Or would I still need to have low sensitivity option installed? Would I have to use your preamp instead of the SP batbox? What's the dimensions of your preamp? I really like the tiny dimensions of the SP batbox.

Church-Audio · « **Reply #14 on:** May 22, 2011, 01:59:04 PM »

Quote from: livingdna on May 22, 2011, 01:45:57 PM

A little update:

I did 2 further recordings to test my new equipment. On both recordings I used the new SB11 battery box, with a pair of BMC-6. One recording was flawless. The other had slight overloading, but nothing compared to the previous recording with CMC-8. The overloading can most likely be ascribed to the extremely loud sound level (the band was Swans). This leads me to believe that acidjack is spot on with the lack of "low sensitivity option" being the cause.

Quote from: Church-Audio on April 30, 2011, 09:17:37 AM
I am not trying to sell you something well.. maybe but actually the best option for you is my 9200 or 9100 preamp with my 4.7k mod in it. It allows you to run the mics high sens or low sens and switch between the two so that you can have the best of both worlds.
You might find one on the garage sale section here or you can get one from me. The problem with these mics is they do overload at way less sound pressure when wired in 2 wire mode. Around 10 to 15% thd @ 114 db @ 1k from my measurements.
Chris

So if the problem really is the lack of low sensitivity option, your preamp could solve it? Or would I still need to have low sensitivity option installed? Would I have to use your preamp instead of the SP batbox? What's the dimensions of your preamp? I really like the tiny dimensions of the SP batbox.

The advantage of my preamp is that you can have the mics wired 3 wire and use my 4.7k mod inside the preamp that can be switched on and off. Allowing you to get the high sensitivity when you need it and low sensitivity when you need it + 20 Db of very quiet gain. Allowing you to tape all kinds of shows quiet and loud with one pair of mics and one preamp. The preamp is 2.5 x 3 x 1 inch

livingdna · « **Reply #15 on:** May 22, 2011, 02:35:17 PM »

Quote from: Church-Audio on May 22, 2011, 01:59:04 PM

...you can have the mics wired 3 wire...

What do you mean? Do I need to re-solder the wiring or is it plug and play?
What's the difference between your 9200 and 9100? I was only able to find the 9100 on your page.
Do you have any smaller options available or does a preamp simply take up more space than a battery box?

acidjack · « **Reply #16 on:** May 22, 2011, 03:37:24 PM »

Also if for some reason you don't want to just have your SP mics fixed with the low sens mod, for the same price as Chris' preamp you could also just buy some of Chris' mics and continue using them with the SP battery box. Chris' mics don't have problems with high SPLs, since they are designed for concert recording.

Humbug · « **Reply #17 on:** May 22, 2011, 07:30:31 PM »

Some very good advice on this thread - it's clear SP are still in denial about probs with the AT853 caps, and that C-A also have very good products and / or a solution.

Having been through this, and stuck with the AT mics, my suggestion is to either to try and mod the mics to 3-wire mini-XLR plugs, and get hold of a cheap 3-wire battery box (surely someone makes one now - mine was custom built for me by a board member), or get the 4.7k mod, and carry on 2-wire (cheapest option).

Or ask Chris at C-A to mod them, and supply a 9100 pre-amp. I'm quite happy with mine, but prefer to use the 3-wire battery box for most occasions, as I like the way it sounds.

If then you don't like the sound of the AT mics, it's a simple matter to change to CA mics.

Church-Audio · « **Reply #18 on:** May 24, 2011, 10:42:56 AM »

Quote from: livingdna on May 22, 2011, 02:35:17 PM

Quote from: Church-Audio on May 22, 2011, 01:59:04 PM
...you can have the mics wired 3 wire...

What do you mean? Do I need to re-solder the wiring or is it plug and play?
I can do that for you for $30 that includes the two 3 wire mini xlr connectors and labor.

What's the difference between your 9200 and 9100? I was only able to find the 9100 on your page.
The 9200 has 40 db of gain in 6 steps the 9100 has 20 db of gain that is continually variable. Both are good preamps if you need to record a wide variety of material the 9200 is the best bet if you record fairly loud shows the 9100 is a good deal. Both preamps are the same size the details of the 9200 are available on the retail section on this board.

Do you have any smaller options available or does a preamp simply take up more space than a battery box?
I have no smaller preamp except for the UGLY that has most of the features of the 9100 but its only the size of a 9 volt battery. The preamp is bigger than a battery box but a battery box does not provide any gain what so ever.

Humbug · « **Reply #19 on:** May 24, 2011, 10:52:15 AM »

Quote from: Church-Audio on May 24, 2011, 10:42:56 AM

I can do that for you for $30 that includes the two 3 wire mini xlr connectors and labor.

That's not a bad deal - one thing to consider when not running open is that these are locking connectors, so (provided you clicked them in properly) they will not come loose while recording, which is a possibility with a 1/8" connector.

livingdna · « **Reply #20 on:** June 06, 2011, 02:18:28 PM »

Thanks for all advice - good stuff. Wish I knew before I spend all my money on SP gear. Now to save up for a CA solution!

nameloc01 · « **Reply #21 on:** June 06, 2011, 02:35:44 PM »

Quote from: livingdna on June 06, 2011, 02:18:28 PM

Thanks for all advice - good stuff. Wish I knew before I spend all my money on SP gear. Now to save up for a CA solution!

theres nothing wrong with Audio-Technica gear.. however,there is something wrong with running it incorrectly. As there also is with running CA gear incorrectly,DPA incorrectly,Schoeps incorrectly,Coresound incorrectly..ect.

SP sold the mics that way because more people are likely to buy them when the price is cheaper..the price is cheaper because they are being sold to run off of an el'cheapo battery box with a miniplug vs. a phantom power supply with mini xlrs and adaptors. its several hundred dollars less expensive.

that is the price that is paid (clipping) when shortcuts are attempted.

keep in mind, when Audio Technica ships their mics to Soundpros, they all have mini xlrs on them ( and 25' cables). Soundpros removes them and adds the miniplug...for the reason stated above. To put the mini xlrs on the mics isnt a "mod", its putting them back to the original factory state, the miniplug version is actually the "mod". the mics were intended to be ran, with an adaptor from a board that supplies phantom power, or from one of their belt battery packs. Thats it, that simple.

I would have someone make you a nice 3wire battery box,or get Churchs' switchable preamp.

Cheesecadet · « **Reply #22 on:** June 06, 2011, 09:38:04 PM »

Quote from: nameloc01 on June 06, 2011, 02:35:44 PM

Quote from: livingdna on June 06, 2011, 02:18:28 PM
Thanks for all advice - good stuff. Wish I knew before I spend all my money on SP gear. Now to save up for a CA solution!

theres nothing wrong with Audio-Technica gear.. however,there is something wrong with running it incorrectly. As there also is with running CA gear incorrectly,DPA incorrectly,Schoeps incorrectly,Coresound incorrectly..ect.

SP sold the mics that way because more people are likely to buy them when the price is cheaper..the price is cheaper because they are being sold to run off of an el'cheapo battery box with a miniplug vs. a phantom power supply with mini xlrs and adaptors. its several hundred dollars less expensive.

that is the price that is paid (clipping) when shortcuts are attempted.

keep in mind, when Audio Technica ships their mics to Soundpros, they all have mini xlrs on them ( and 25' cables). Soundpros removes them and adds the miniplug...for the reason stated above. To put the mini xlrs on the mics inst really a "mod", its putting them back to the original factory state, the miniplug version is actually the "mod". the mics were intended to be ran, with an adaptor from a board that supplies phantom power, or from one of their belt battery packs. Thats it, that simple.

I would have someone make you a nice 3wire battery box,or get Churchs' switchable preamp.

Agreed 100%. SP Gear is great if it is run correctly. I have a pair of the original AT853's that terminate in Mini-XLRs that tgakis made for me. Got a CA-9100 v4.4a from Chris Church with the Mini-XLR input and switchable 4.7k mod. I have made some smoking recordings with this setup!

Humbug · « **Reply #23 on:** June 07, 2011, 06:10:24 PM »

Quote from: Cheesecadet on June 06, 2011, 09:38:04 PM

I have a pair of the original AT853's that terminate in Mini-XLRs that tgakis made for me. Got a CA-9100 v4.4a from Chris Church with the Mini-XLR input and switchable 4.7k mod. I have made some smoking recordings with this setup!

Please check out a couple of my nicest recordings using AT933's:

http://www.archive.org/details/dbt2010-11-24.at933

http://www.archive.org/details/lf2008-07-11.at933.flac16

acidjack · « **Reply #24 on:** June 08, 2011, 02:30:16 PM »

.. I've also made some smoking recordings with the miniplug-terminated 853s with the "low sensitivity" aka 4.7k mod, running into an "el cheapo" battery box.

For example:
http://www.archive.org/details/mogwai2009-04-29.flac16_638

That band is loud as hell. Not many louder except the Melvins and Motorhead. No brickwalling there.

The solution that doesn't involve the OP spending a bunch more money and/or waiting around with no gear is to send them back to SP and have them do the low sensitivity mod. I've found their turnaround to be about 1wk or so.

Knowing what I know now, I don't disagree that the BEST solution is using the original 3-wire with a CA preamp powering the mics. But it's not required, and doing what I suggest is cheaper and makes the rig less complicated. My $.02.

Church-Audio · « **Reply #25 on:** June 08, 2011, 04:51:06 PM »

Quote from: acidjack on June 08, 2011, 02:30:16 PM

.. I've also made some smoking recordings with the miniplug-terminated 853s with the "low sensitivity" aka 4.7k mod, running into an "el cheapo" battery box.

For example:
http://www.archive.org/details/mogwai2009-04-29.flac16_638

That band is loud as hell. Not many louder except the Melvins and Motorhead. No brickwalling there.

The solution that doesn't involve the OP spending a bunch more money and/or waiting around with no gear is to send them back to SP and have them do the low sensitivity mod. I've found their turnaround to be about 1wk or so.

Knowing what I know now, I don't disagree that the BEST solution is using the original 3-wire with a CA preamp powering the mics. But it's not required, and doing what I suggest is cheaper and makes the rig less complicated. My $.02.

If you are running the 853 with my 9100 or 9200 preamp with the 4.7k mod its a pretty good flexible system. In the end.... The best solution is the one that works. If a battery box works thats good, some guys tape all kinds of shows from quiet to loud my 9100 or 9200 with the 4.7k mod allows you to do it all with little to no needed gain in post and much less noise.

Chris

thirtyfour · « **Reply #26 on:** June 14, 2011, 10:49:53 AM »

I'm gonna jump in this thread, rather than start a new one, since I have a similar setup. I've got the SP Premium Binaurals (SP-CMC-8) & their "premium battery box", both 1/8", which I got about 12 years ago w/ an M1. I switched to R-09 a few years back, but I've become a bit dissatisfied w/ the quality of my recordings (even those done on the M1, so I'm guessing that's not where the difference is). Most of the shows I go to are very loud rock, and they always sound distorted & muddy- maybe that's just unavoidable, but I've heard better recordings of similar shows, so there must be something I can do. Oh, and quieter shows sound GREAT. But those are fairly rare (maybe 1-2 a year compared to 20-30 very loud ones).

Currently stealth taping, clipping the mics at collar level (I'm also usually a head taller than most of the people in the crowd, so there isn't too much muffling). I've set the bass roll-off to various levels with seemingly little to no effect- recordings are still bassy as hell, since that's what tends to be the loudest... Using line in w/ ACG off, stereo mic, no low cut, low gain.
Samples: http://www.archive.org/details/sp2010-08-11
Note the first review at the bottom.

So- do I need new mics? The "4.7k mod"? A new battery box/preamp? A full frontal lobotomy?

I'm in JP, so not sure about shipping stuff back & forth, but I DO go to a lot of shows, so I'd like to start getting better-sounding recordings... Got about a month before my next planned show.

acidjack · « **Reply #27 on:** June 14, 2011, 12:52:10 PM »

Sadly, I have to agree with that first reviewer - that's an unlistenable amount of distortion.

Assuming you've got a nice new battery in the battery box, your problem is almost definitely that you need the 4.7k mod, or a different set of mics. I used the mics you have for about a year and liked them, and I used them at VERY loud shows, and never had an issue. I had the mod. I'd go that route, or get some Church Audio mics. IMHO the SP CMC-8 (once modded) sound better than the CA-11, worse than the CA-14, but the SP mics are also smaller than the CA-14. You're clipping to a collar, so maybe the -14s wouldn't be that noticeable, but they are bigger than what you run now.

adrianf74 · « **Reply #28 on:** June 14, 2011, 09:36:31 PM »

It definitely sounds like overloading, but as many have asked, at what point exactly is this happening?

The overloading/brickwalling issue is one of the reasons that led me to sell my CMC-8's (AT-933/c) because I didn't see value in getting them modded when I could sell them and move to Chris Church's gear. I've gotten many excellent captures with the AT-933/c's (especially Matthew Good on his first solo tour in '03 and a Kraftwerk show from around that time period as well). I've also had some dogs as well because of being too close and overloading the mics (even though I was running a proper battery box). Again, this was using two-wire SP made mics.

I can also add that I've used my CA-14's with the 9100 pre-amp in a couple of very loud scenarios (to put it mildly, my -28dB earplugs seemed like they weren't doing anything) and got some amazing captures and no brickwalling/distortion so if the mics/gear are made properly, you shouldn't be experiencing anything like what you experienced. I'd definitely be pushing back on SP.

F.O.Bean · « **Reply #29 on:** June 14, 2011, 11:04:15 PM »

I would sell your SP mics and pick up some CA-14[Cards/Omnis] and get a 9100/9200/Battery Box, and be down with it

My 1st recording using CA-14 Cards>SP BB>M10 BLEW MY MIND, it sounds so good.

bugg100 · « **Reply #30 on:** June 16, 2011, 04:23:33 PM »

Quote from: livingdna on April 28, 2011, 03:01:46 AM

Thanks for input.
I did use line-in and battery is fully charged.

Is this a rechargeable 9 volt?

New?

When I had a 9100 pre it would distort only the bass tone when the voltage got below say 7.75 volts, resulting in the type of distorted audio your sample shows.... Got a voltmeter, or barring that a fresh NON-rechargeable 9 volt...

By the way. safetyclip on the rockboxed iriver is good, it never pushes back up after it lowers gain , only lowering gain if you get within 1-3 dB of 0dB. Never to pump back up which is really on of the problems with AGC circuits previously implemented... This statement ONLY aplies to Safetyclip via Rockbox firmware though!

Church-Audio · « **Reply #31 on:** June 17, 2011, 09:47:55 AM »

Here is the deal.. Running mics like the 800 Series with NO mods what so ever and running it two wire will result in distortion even with a battery box throwing more voltage at the mic will never solve the issue. There are people that think a battery box eliminates distortion it does not.. at least not by it self. You need my mod or to run the mics three wire. ANYONE running these mics two wire even with a battery box will at some point in time get a distorted recording under high SPL conditions. ALL of the specs for the AT 800 series are basted on three wire connections not two wire so that's where the problem lies. There are also some battery boxes being made with coin sells these should be avoided like the plague because coin sells fail all the time and they are unreliable. 9 volt battery boxes using a 9 volt battery will be 1000x more reliable than coin cells. And again some people think 12 volts is better than 9 if the mics are not modified and running 2 wire you can put 16 volts into the mics and they will still overload........

livingdna · « **Reply #32 on:** July 11, 2011, 01:35:20 AM »

Did use a non-rechargeable battery, but tested it before and after the recording, showing that it was fully charged. Didn't really seem like 3 hours of recording used any of the battery - would that be abnormal? How much recording time would a 9 volt normally last?

Quote from: bugg100 on June 16, 2011, 04:23:33 PM

Is this a rechargeable 9 volt?

New?

When I had a 9100 pre it would distort only the bass tone when the voltage got below say 7.75 volts, resulting in the type of distorted audio your sample shows.... Got a voltmeter, or barring that a fresh NON-rechargeable 9 volt...

By the way. safetyclip on the rockboxed iriver is good, it never pushes back up after it lowers gain , only lowering gain if you get within 1-3 dB of 0dB. Never to pump back up which is really on of the problems with AGC circuits previously implemented... This statement ONLY aplies to Safetyclip via Rockbox firmware though!

livingdna · « **Reply #33 on:** July 11, 2011, 02:03:38 AM »

Summer concerts are coming up and I need to make my mics work again

There have been lots of awesome advise in this thread. Currently I am most keen on just having SP installing the low sens mod but am unsure if this will limit me too much - i.e. will the low sens mod make me unable to record the more quiet gigs? I understand that the noise floor will go up when using the low sens mod, but am unsure how distinct this will be. Anyone has experience?

Alternatives would be purchasing CA14 mics (if available? they are not on website), but I understand that these less stealthy than the SP-CMC8 mics. How much bigger are the CA14 mics?

CA preamp also sound like a good alternative, except for the fact that the unit is rather bulky compared to the SP bat.box.

Finally someone mentioned a cheap 3-wire bat.box running modded mics. How would this perform compared to using the CA preamp and how small would such a 3-wire bat.box be?

I should mention that I need a rig that would allow me to record very loud bands (but occasionally also acoustic gigs). Should I be looking at alternatives with phantom power? Stealth-ability is also a big issuse to me.

Humbug · « **Reply #34 on:** July 11, 2011, 08:13:13 AM »

Quote from: livingdna on July 11, 2011, 02:03:38 AM

Finally someone mentioned a cheap 3-wire bat.box running modded mics. How would this perform compared to using the CA preamp and how small would such a 3-wire bat.box be?

It's a bit smaller that a CA-9100 pre-amp. Works reliably, and battery life is good. Unfortunately the person that built this for me about 5 years ago found it a bit of a hassle, so only made a couple. I use this for anything from unamplified acoustic right up to metal gigs.

Does anyone make an equivalent? To be honest the CA-9100 does a good job, I just prefer using the 3-wire battery box.

fandelive · « **Reply #35 on:** July 11, 2011, 10:01:42 AM »

I'd go for the 4.7k mod + preamp (I use this setup myself). One of the reason any would use a preamp is to add gain without adding noise, right ?

SP-CMC-8 are pretty good quality mics. I don't think you'll get that much additional noise when cranking up the preamp volume.
Just make sure you set your recorder volume at unity gain, then adjust your levels with the preamp knot.

Acoustic shows are more intimate; find a good spot close enough to the source.
You also might want to try modded mics > mic-in for quiet stuff.

Good luck !

Author Topic: What's wrong with my new SP gear?? (sample included) (Read 11814 times)

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