Topic: Please offer advice on recording Bardo Pond

[cincykid]

Hello Tapers,

My friend put together a show where Bardo Pond, Empty Shapes and maybe 4 other bands are playing. The dude who put this thing together would like to record the event. But I have only one rig, Akg blueline mics 393s and a marantz 661 with oade warm mod. I have taped both Bardo and Empty Shapes with my mics and a UA5 with warm mod and it sounded ok.

Since, I know there are some peeps here that have several rigs I thought that you could recommend the "ideal" mics and pre-amp for loud psych/drone/space rock.

Also, anyone pulled a good tape of a White Hills show? After asking Dave W. (white hills) if I could tape his show he said yes but that I must send him a copy before sharing. He mentioned that many tapers, specifically NYC tapers, have recorded his shows but only a few got his approval. Needless to say my recording of the white hills was not worthy.

Thanks for taking the time to read this.

Dave

[acidjack]

I've made several great tapes of both White Hills and Bardo.   Dave W is correct that he does not OK most recordings to be shared. Here are the ones he has:
http://www.nyctaper.com/2012/04/white-hills-april-9-2012-glasslands-flac-and-mp3-downloads-streaming-songs-plus-northside-festival-announcement/
http://www.nyctaper.com/2012/06/white-hills-june-14-2012-nyctaper-northside-showcase-at-285-kent-flac-and-mp3-downloads-streaming-songs/



Bardo are much more relaxed about taping.  This is probably the best recording I've done of them: http://www.nyctaper.com/2010/12/bardo-pond-november-20-2010-bell-house-brooklyn-ny-flac-and-mp3-downloads-streaming-song/

I think your AKGs and the 661 should do just fine.  If I had my preference, I would not want something "warm" because psych rock tends to be muddy in general, and gets really muddy in the mids and mid-bass as a result.

I'm a big fan of that Bardo recording of mine because it's nice and tight, with Schoeps MK41s and a board feed.  Conversely, that White Hills recording was with Schoeps MK22 "open cardiods" which have a wider pattern than cards, plus a board feed.  Generally I would not record a band like that with such mics again, though I think that one turned out nice.  (I'm also not afraid to EQ my recordings).  And a board feed.

The other White Hills recording is stage lip with my inexpensive AT3031s.  And a board feed, though it's mostly mics.

I guess in summary, it always depends on the situation, but all things held equal, for psych rock I like to (a) get a board feed and (b) get something that's not too muddy in the mids and mid-bass.  The 393s should be pretty good for that.  I would recommend trying to get an SBD feed with a second deck if at all possible.  These bands are both cool with it, and it will help the recording a lot.  In an ideal world, I'd roll onstage/stage lip and use the SBD for vocals...

Good luck!

[Marshall7]

Dave from White Hills told me he needed to listen to my recording and if he didn't approve of it I would need to "erase it immediately".  I asked him if he would immediately give me a refund if I didn't like his performance.  That was the end of that discussion.   

[acidjack]

Dave from White Hills told me he needed to listen to my recording and if he didn't approve of it I would need to "erase it immediately".  I asked him if he would immediately give me a refund if I didn't like his performance.  That was the end of that discussion.   

I don't really see why you felt the need to antagonize the guy.  You asked him if you could record it; he told you what the deal was.  Do you have some inherent right to record and keep copies of his performances that I'm not aware of?

Some artists are harder to deal with than others.  If I don't care enough about  the band for it to be worth it for me to go without taping (or keeping/distributing the tape) I just don't go....

[Marshall7]

Not sure if I antagonized him or he antagonized me...but I was completely turned off by his attitude.  Had he said to just not distribute it, or even had he said not to record at all, I wouldn't have had a problem.  But asking me to (a) stick around after the show so he could hear the recording, and (b) erase it if he didn't like it...yeah, fuck him.   Especially considering he has the same very co-operative management as Sleepy Sun, and that's how I got pointed toward him in the first place.  Of course Sleepy Sun were the polar opposite to deal with.  And actually make music I like.

[acidjack]

Not sure if I antagonized him or he antagonized me...but I was completely turned off by his attitude.  Had he said to just not distribute it, or even had he said not to record at all, I wouldn't have had a problem.  But asking me to (a) stick around after the show so he could hear the recording, and (b) erase it if he didn't like it...yeah, fuck him.   Especially considering he has the same very co-operative management as Sleepy Sun, and that's how I got pointed toward him in the first place.  Of course Sleepy Sun were the polar opposite to deal with.  And actually make music I like.

He antagonized you by responding to a request to record with a condition?  He owns the music. It's his livelihood, so it's substantially more valuable to him than it is to you.  I agree, that's kind of a strange condition.  OTOH, he doesn't know you at all. He could also not allow taping at all.  And you've already said you don't even like his music.  Seems to me he tried to accommodate you in a way that he felt comfortable. He has zero obligation to do that.  You paid to go see the band perform, which presumably they did. Why should you be entitled to anything beyond that? 

I'm not saying I'd have necessarily gone along with that condition.  I'd have probably said, "OK, that's cool, I don't really want to wait around after the show, so I won't record it." Personally, if a band has a bunch of conditions on what has to happen with the recording, I factor that in when I decide whether to go or not.  But I'm not really sure why it makes them bad people if they have a different view of how their music can be used by me (for free), than I do.

The more I actually interact with artists, the more I learn that just like in any other profession, different ones have different approaches and levels of comfort about things. But pretty much all of them, especially the ones who do it full time, take it really, really seriously. Their job is to make music, play it, and sell it, which doesn't pay much to begin with.  Accommodating something some fan (or worse, non-fan) wants to do is them doing you a favor. 

If, after I'd gone out of my way to even consider letting someone tape, someone responded the way you say you did, I can pretty much tell you where I'd come out: I would never bother dealing with tapers again.

[cincykid]

Acidjack,

Thanks for all the positive info and links, now I have a starting point to try and get this done. BTW my conversation with Dave W was not at all like Mashall's. The guy is easy to talk to, definitely seems to appreciate people who enjoy his art, and like you said is not obligated to allow Marshall, or anyone else, to distribute or record White Hills' music.

Acidjack, do you know any tapers who would enjoy recording Bardo and the rest of the bands on December 21st?

I live in Ohio now and the trip out to Delaware might be difficult for me to pull off. I'm willing to pay for their hotel, get them a soundboard patch and admission to the show. (Any taper interested who has a rig similar to the one that Acidjack described above feel free to PM me).

Dave           

[acidjack]

Acidjack,

Thanks for all the positive info and links, now I have a starting point to try and get this done. BTW my conversation with Dave W was not at all like Mashall's. The guy is easy to talk to, definitely seems to appreciate people who enjoy his art, and like you said is not obligated to allow Marshall, or anyone else, to distribute or record White Hills' music.

Yeah man, I have always found him to be a good guy. Definitely a little strange, which is kind of not to be unexpected of a dude who wears Alice Cooper makeup

Acidjack, do you know any tapers who would enjoy recording Bardo and the rest of the bands on December 21st?

I live in Ohio now and the trip out to Delaware might be difficult for me to pull off. I'm willing to pay for their hotel, get them a soundboard patch and admission to the show. (Any taper interested who has a rig similar to the one that Acidjack described above feel free to PM me).

Dave         

Oh, the show is in Delaware?  Let me ask my buddy who runs their website.  What part of Delaware?  It is probably not workable for me, but there are PA-based people who may be able to pull it off.

[yltfan]

I know I shouldn't, but I'm going to weigh in anyway.

I completely agree with acidjack here. I think our hobby has come as far it is has due to the politeness, understanding, and compliance of those tapers who have had positive interactions with the artists and venue staff--many of whom can be fickle, uptight, or even rude. On the flip side, tapers often have a bad rap because of the opposite: antagonization, unreasonable expectations, and decisions to ignore artists' requests (as well as the legacy of "bootleggers"). If all those negative things didn't happen, I bet we'd have even more access than we do now.

I just had a long, strange interaction with a particularly fickle artist. He was on the fence about letting me record, and even went back and forth on the decision at one point. In the end, he let me tape, but I'm certain that had I been at all rude or had given the appearance of not being willing to comply with his requests, he would have said no.

Same goes for the venue staff. I think we need to be good to them.

Taping is a privilege, not a right.

[F.O.Bean]

I have a few bands begging me to record them and I choose not to. But I am always kind to the artists and venues and it's helped me get to where I am today, and where I'm allowed to setup, which is usually FOB/DFC

[cincykid]

Oh, the show is in Delaware?  Let me ask my buddy who runs their website.  What part of Delaware?  It is probably not workable for me, but there are PA-based people who may be able to pull it off.

Its at Mojo On Main which is in Newark, Delaware. There is a hotel right next to the venue. thanks for your consideration. I will try and find a promo link. I official will not be able to attend do to work obligations. 

[acidjack]

Oh, the show is in Delaware?  Let me ask my buddy who runs their website.  What part of Delaware?  It is probably not workable for me, but there are PA-based people who may be able to pull it off.

Its at Mojo On Main which is in Newark, Delaware. There is a hotel right next to the venue. thanks for your consideration. I will try and find a promo link. I official will not be able to attend do to work obligations.

I struck out on Philly people unfortunately.  I'd post in Find A Taper.  Like I said, as far as Bardo is concerned, it's anything goes.