Author Topic: Mic Placement At Amphitheatre? (Read 10187 times)

Credoors · « **on:** April 15, 2004, 05:17:17 PM »

hey guys,

i scored some 8th row center tickets for dave matthews band this summer and was wondering if i need to be by a stack to turn a decent tape or if center will work out. it is at an amphitheatre and i have never taped at a place that large. thanks for any help!

peace,
danny

sexymexi · « **Reply #1 on:** April 15, 2004, 05:27:04 PM »

most people that tape dave shows stack tape. We didn't for dave and friends we were right behind the SBD, and ran, it was ok, u will get more crowd noise. The only recomendation i would have is to probably run hypers. as far as config, whats your favorite. go for it. peace.

matt

mirth · « **Reply #2 on:** April 15, 2004, 05:48:56 PM »

8th row center section in an ampitheatre sounds like an ORTF or DIN situation to me. Thats hella close to the stage.

Would crowd noise be more or less of a factor that close up?

Swampy · « **Reply #3 on:** April 15, 2004, 05:52:47 PM »

From 8th row, you wont even need hypers. I really think more people should not stack tape and run stereo configs, but thats just my opinion!

ChrisV · « **Reply #4 on:** April 15, 2004, 05:58:06 PM »

I have a question with regards to that....I've always wondered this but when you do a "stack tape" how do you position the mics? Just straight ahead or what?

Swampy · « **Reply #5 on:** April 15, 2004, 06:00:40 PM »

Ya, the ones Ive heard (for the most part) are just A B
l l
l stack l
l______l

l l
mics

I think this is how it is... I dont like them. I need my stereo! Hell, I dont even like XY

sexymexi · « **Reply #6 on:** April 15, 2004, 06:07:45 PM »

yea.. there needs to be more stereo tapers, instead of stack tapers, especailly for DMB, but yea, personally i love DIN, so thats what i'd run, just run high if you can, but i'm sure they will try to shut you down if your in the middle, at DMB shows they get pissed for that. Thats why if you get taper tix, they put you right next to the SBD. good luck..

ChrisV · « **Reply #7 on:** April 15, 2004, 06:14:13 PM »

Yeah, I've got all 3 nights to the Gorge for DMB but not great taping seats, all row 20-ish in various sections. Haven't decided if I am even going to try to attempt to tape those or not.

But I have some 2nd row tix to another concert at a different Amphitheatre and was thinking about what I am going to do there and if I'll try doing a stack tape or not.

blu666z · « **Reply #8 on:** April 15, 2004, 06:20:36 PM »

DMB doesn't have taper tixs I don't believe.

-Kevin

nickgregory · « **Reply #9 on:** April 15, 2004, 06:38:20 PM »

alright, first, you wont want to tape from 8th row center because you will have to run head height...everyone wants to say that DMB tapers are morons because we dont tape in the center...but the problem is that DMB runs a camera from the board and will not let your stand be above head height...and we are talking normal head height, like 5'9"....you will get too many screamers imho. This is why everyone trades over to the stack sides, because you can run higher, get the screamers out and also, it is a mono PA (one of the best sounding PAs on the road today imo). Now you can run as high as you want, anywhere behind the board, but quite honestly, I am not a fan of section taping (which is essentially what running behind the board is), but to each their own.

As for stereo configs, no, not most DMB tapers dont run AB...there are a few, but there are as many if not more, including myself who run a wide XY, or a DIN, because while the music may be mono, by running a stereo config you still get a pretty cool image by doing that.

Any questions, feel free to ask...there are a few of us here who have experience taping DMB and would be happy to give advice.

nickgregory · « **Reply #10 on:** April 15, 2004, 06:39:47 PM »

also, there are no taper tix for DMB...havent been for years...tape from your seat, one of the best policies in the business....only rules, dont infringe on your neighbors good time and keep the stands at head height in the center in front of the board

Credoors · « **Reply #11 on:** April 15, 2004, 07:08:29 PM »

thanks for all the info...since i can't run higher than head height in the middle i will probably pass on taping and just enjoy the show. i would trade over to the stack, but this will be the closest i have ever been at a dmb show and really want the experience; so ill just pick up someone's source.

thanks guys!

peace,
danny

nickgregory · « **Reply #12 on:** April 15, 2004, 07:19:44 PM »

Quote from: Credoors on April 15, 2004, 07:08:29 PM

thanks for all the info...since i can't run higher than head height in the middle i will probably pass on taping and just enjoy the show. i would trade over to the stack, but this will be the closest i have ever been at a dmb show and really want the experience; so ill just pick up someone's source.

thanks guys!

peace,
danny

never a bad idea to enjoy the show...most shows are going to have a few tapers so you will get a memory...actually with DMB doing their version of instant live this year....you dont have to worry, you will be able to get a copy of the show....

mterry · « **Reply #13 on:** April 15, 2004, 07:38:20 PM »

nick, I have a question about taping DMB

IN raleigh last year, I had 2nd row, dead center. Would that have been too close to tape from.......would there have been a large chunk of "dead" sound coming from the center?

nickgregory · « **Reply #14 on:** April 15, 2004, 07:41:16 PM »

Quote from: mterry on April 15, 2004, 07:38:20 PM

nick, I have a question about taping DMB

IN raleigh last year, I had 2nd row, dead center. Would that have been too close to tape from.......would there have been a large chunk of "dead" sound coming from the center?

the dead sound would have been covered up by the screaming girls when they played crash

Rob D. · « **Reply #15 on:** April 15, 2004, 07:55:32 PM »

Nick, I have a question about taping DMB.

Why?

mterry · « **Reply #16 on:** April 15, 2004, 08:10:04 PM »

Quote from: nickgregory on April 15, 2004, 07:41:16 PM

Quote from: mterry on April 15, 2004, 07:38:20 PM
nick, I have a question about taping DMB

IN raleigh last year, I had 2nd row, dead center. Would that have been too close to tape from.......would there have been a large chunk of "dead" sound coming from the center?

the dead sound would have been covered up by the screaming girls when they played crash

I guess that is my answer right there

+t

Credoors · « **Reply #17 on:** April 16, 2004, 11:57:17 AM »

Quote from: Rob D. on April 15, 2004, 07:55:32 PM

Nick, I have a question about taping DMB.

Why?

ah that ain't right...haha.

nick,
yeah im big into dmb trading so i know there is always a source for shows...just thought i would try it out if i had good positioning as far as my tickets go.

peace,
danny

sexymexi · « **Reply #18 on:** April 16, 2004, 09:23:37 PM »

Quote from: nickgregory on April 15, 2004, 06:39:47 PM

also, there are no taper tix for DMB...havent been for years...tape from your seat, one of the best policies in the business....only rules, dont infringe on your neighbors good time and keep the stands at head height in the center in front of the board

u must not have bought tix through warehouse, you can specify taper tix for DMB but they are normally tape from your seat. I got taper tix a while back for them at Alpine, and not one decent rig among them there. It was all sony single point mics > MD or worse, I ran a portable mixer > lappy, but still there are taper tickets you just have to get them through the warehouse..

nickgregory · « **Reply #19 on:** April 16, 2004, 11:16:14 PM »

Quote from: sexymexi on April 16, 2004, 09:23:37 PM

u must not have bought tix through warehouse, you can specify taper tix for DMB but they are normally tape from your seat. I got taper tix a while back for them at Alpine, and not one decent rig among them there. It was all sony single point mics > MD or worse, I ran a portable mixer > lappy, but still there are taper tickets you just have to get them through the warehouse..

I have bought tix through the warehouse since 1999, taper tix have not been available since 2000, if not before....that being said, as I said before, section taping is for the birds (imho of course), and if you can tape from your seat, why wouldn't you?

John Kelly · « **Reply #20 on:** April 17, 2004, 03:16:00 AM »

I think 2000 was the last year of the taper tix, but no one that taped regularly ever requested them. They put you right at the soundboard...

F.O.Bean · « **Reply #21 on:** April 17, 2004, 04:07:40 AM »

Quote from: nickgregory on April 15, 2004, 06:39:47 PM

also, there are no taper tix for DMB...havent been for years...tape from your seat, one of the best policies in the business....only rules, dont infringe on your neighbors good time and keep the stands at head height in the center in front of the board

see, i like the "community" feeling of sections, everybody has each others backs, plus were pretty much dead center there

guess its what were used to, ya know;-)

nickgregory · « **Reply #22 on:** April 17, 2004, 07:47:38 AM »

Quote from: bean on April 17, 2004, 04:07:40 AM

see, i like the "community" feeling of sections, everybody has each others backs, plus were pretty much dead center there

guess its what were used to, ya know;-)

I understand that bean, but I would recommend t get some ABB tickets, FOB and run from there once...once you hear those tapes, you will realize what I am talking about, from a sound perspective...

F.O.Bean · « **Reply #23 on:** April 17, 2004, 09:50:25 AM »

Quote from: nickgregory on April 17, 2004, 07:47:38 AM

Quote from: bean on April 17, 2004, 04:07:40 AM
see, i like the "community" feeling of sections, everybody has each others backs, plus were pretty much dead center there

guess its what were used to, ya know;-)

I understand that bean, but I would recommend t get some ABB tickets, FOB and run from there once...once you hear those tapes, you will realize what I am talking about, from a sound perspective...

never evn seen ABB, maybe i should, i grew up on them as a kid

i feel ya tho, nothing really to say except i wish i could record my fav bands FOB like that

imagine if i could get away w/ 480's FOB at phish, it would show the schempz cats to quit wasting their time and let team akg go up front

j/k guyz, just stirring the pot of nugz

nic · « **Reply #24 on:** April 17, 2004, 10:15:07 AM »

"imagine if i could get away w/ 480's FOB at phish, it would show the schempz cats to quit wasting their time and let team akg go up front "

I wish more 4021/4022 owners would step up front...

that said, I can't honestly say I've been to a GREAT sounding Phish show since 1998!

F.O.Bean · « **Reply #25 on:** April 17, 2004, 10:38:20 AM »

Quote from: luvean on April 17, 2004, 10:15:07 AM

"imagine if i could get away w/ 480's FOB at phish, it would show the schempz cats to quit wasting their time and let team akg go up front "

I wish more 4021/4022 owners would step up front...
that said, I can't honestly say I've been to a GREAT sounding Phish show since 1998!

no doubt, i luv me some b+k's

mterry · « **Reply #26 on:** April 17, 2004, 05:15:18 PM »

Quote from: bean on April 17, 2004, 10:38:20 AM

Quote from: luvean on April 17, 2004, 10:15:07 AM
"imagine if i could get away w/ 480's FOB at phish, it would show the schempz cats to quit wasting their time and let team akg go up front "

I wish more 4021/4022 owners would step up front...
that said, I can't honestly say I've been to a GREAT sounding Phish show since 1998!

no doubt, i luv me some b+k's

What bean is REALLY thinking........."mmmmmmm akg.......mmmmm"

Scuba Jeremy · « **Reply #27 on:** April 19, 2004, 01:47:55 PM »

Quote from: sexymexi on April 15, 2004, 06:07:45 PM

yea.. there needs to be more stereo tapers, instead of stack tapers, especailly for DMB, but yea, personally i love DIN, so thats what i'd run, just run high if you can, but i'm sure they will try to shut you down if your in the middle, at DMB shows they get pissed for that. Thats why if you get taper tix, they put you right next to the SBD. good luck..

They don't do taper tickets any more.

I actually wanted them for Deer Creek this year, and I'm not going to say where I ended up....

<--- gettin' really tired of the Warehouse....

teajay · « **Reply #28 on:** April 19, 2004, 02:34:08 PM »

nick - when you say they make you run from the side, how far to the side.. I think all my tickets this year are a bit LOC, but not too far over, wondering if i should be looking for trades...

I also got pretty shitty tickets this year (~20th row), so the tapes may be useless... But i guess we'll have to find out...

travis

nickgregory · « **Reply #29 on:** April 19, 2004, 03:17:30 PM »

Quote from: teajay on April 19, 2004, 02:34:08 PM

nick - when you say they make you run from the side, how far to the side.. I think all my tickets this year are a bit LOC, but not too far over, wondering if i should be looking for trades...

I also got pretty shitty tickets this year (~20th row), so the tapes may be useless... But i guess we'll have to find out...

travis

if you are in the center section of the seats, you will run at head height..on occassion in very few venues, the end of a row in the center section will allow you to run as high as you want and not be in the way of the camera, but even in the case of these venues, they will usually make you run head height, so as to avoide the taper sitting center saying that "The guy at the end of this row is not running head high"...it is just easier for them to single out the entire section....When I talk about taping on the sides, I am talking about the two sections of seats opposite the center section (most arenas center section is 2, and the two sides are 1 and 3)...hope that makes sense.

teajay · « **Reply #30 on:** April 19, 2004, 03:43:57 PM »

yah, it makes sense...
thanks and +t...

but it makes my situation shittier

time to hit the boards for a trade i guess....

Think it's a bad idea to milk the fact that I'll be taping as leverage to get someone to do the trade? I've only seen it a handful of times... But we all know it sucks when no tapes come out for a particular show (i.e 2003-09-03)

travis

nickgregory · « **Reply #31 on:** April 19, 2004, 04:23:48 PM »

it really isnt going to matter since they are going to sell copies of all of their shows....tapers being hammered for tapes will be a thing of the past...not a bad thing in my opinion.

in terms of trading because your a taper...up to you, but doesnt always work. Also, I usually dont bother trading til I show up...allows me to stake out the situation a bit better

Brian · « **Reply #32 on:** April 19, 2004, 04:51:36 PM »

my WH tix are are center but waaayyyy behind the SBD almost out of hte pavillion and i've been a member since dec 99

i'm thinking Healy, M/S, or Blumlein, just for the hell of it. either that or i won't bring anything except for my dat to patch out of joe shambro. then i'll get really drunk, where a white visor backwards upside down and yell lots just so i can fit in with the rest of the crowd

but right now i'm thinking of taping

Brian

Scuba Jeremy · « **Reply #33 on:** April 19, 2004, 08:52:21 PM »

Quote from: S_TL-Taper on April 19, 2004, 04:51:36 PM

my WH tix are are center but waaayyyy behind the SBD almost out of hte pavillion and i've been a member since dec 99

I'm in the same boat, I was sitting there last year. I don't know what kind of gear you're running, or how long your stand is. The repeater stacks in the back of that venue hang really low, so if you have a 17 or 14 footer, you can reach those babies as if you were in the front rows. That's what I think I'm doing this year for the first show of the tour. Take a look at them when you get there, and see what you want to do. Certainly there are worse things you can do than patch out of Joe.

Brian · « **Reply #34 on:** April 19, 2004, 10:51:09 PM »

so you'll be at the St. Louis show??? we'll have to meet up before hand for drinks, etc......PM me about it sometime

My exact row is fuggin HH. it's right at the edge of the pavillion. it's very possible i could get something out of those but i won't put my stand any higher than 10 or 11 feet with TL's.

definitely still thinking about a config not using hypers or cards. after Lee's Blumlein fluff and how open and wide the soundstage is i might do that.

Scuba Jeremy · « **Reply #35 on:** April 19, 2004, 11:12:59 PM »

Yep. Tour opener in one of my top five favorite venues in the country. Not to be missed! I plan on getting there early, do you know if they soundcheck on the day of the tour opener, or only on the day before?

Brian · « **Reply #36 on:** April 19, 2004, 11:38:28 PM »

wait you like riverpit?

?

please tell me why beacause i am from St. Louis and think it is THE worst outdoor venue in the country. shitty security, outrageous prices, the whole seperation of hte lawn from pavillion, traffic getting out....i could go on and on....

no idea about the soundcheck. shit i haven't even seen DMB in almost two years so i'm out of hte loop on that kind of stuff. i'm sure joe shambro knows.

either way all us tapers should meet up somewhere prior for some drinks. are you going to be staying in a hotel nearby?

Brian

Scuba Jeremy · « **Reply #37 on:** April 19, 2004, 11:44:55 PM »

Yeah. I live in Chicago, so for outdoor venues, I have to drive about three hours to hear something good. Compared to Tweeter in Chicago, The Riverport ain't too shabby. I was talking to the department of the audio arts department at my school, and the topic of the Tweeter Center came up. He said there is a published book that lists the requirements for an acoustically correct outdoor venue with around 8 basic unbreakable rules, and the designers of "The New World Music Theater" broke every one of them. He said flat out - "There is no sweet spot in that [place]".

I'm not sure where I'm staying yet, I'm going to hit up Priceline in a couple weeks and get my plans all settled. Last year we stayed at a Courtyard Marriot near the college for like $50. It was sweeet.

I'm definately down for meeting up, I hope to get into town around 1 or 2, and get to the venue by at least 3 or 4. Depends on traffic, which last year pissed me off something fierce. It was my birthday, and we got to the show about four songs into the setlist. We left the hotel around 5pm. Fucking three hours on the highway for a 7 mile trip.

Brian · « **Reply #38 on:** April 20, 2004, 02:44:01 AM »

yeah that st. louis highway construction traffic can be a bitch. pm'ed ya about some other stuff....

i'm actually pretty excited about this dmb show. with all this dave talk recently it's made me remember just how much i loved this band for the time that i did.

Brian

teajay · « **Reply #39 on:** April 20, 2004, 07:18:13 AM »

Quote from: Scuba Jeremy on April 19, 2004, 11:12:59 PM

Yep. Tour opener in one of my top five favorite venues in the country. Not to be missed! I plan on getting there early, do you know if they soundcheck on the day of the tour opener, or only on the day before?

Every day of show at ~4pm

They may do day before tour opener too, but who can really say.

travis

Tim · « **Reply #40 on:** April 20, 2004, 01:51:22 PM »

would someone please name one band that allows you to run over head height in the middle in front of the board? There isn't one...

get some buddies to sit around you who won't be screaming and run in the middle.

nickgregory · « **Reply #41 on:** April 20, 2004, 01:53:16 PM »

Quote from: Tim on April 20, 2004, 01:51:22 PM

would someone please name one band that allows you to run over head height in the middle in front of the board? There isn't one...

ABB...

I have done it every year in raleigh over the past 4

Tim · « **Reply #42 on:** April 20, 2004, 01:58:48 PM »

they do have one hell of a taping policy!

nickgregory · « **Reply #43 on:** April 20, 2004, 02:06:05 PM »

Quote from: Tim on April 20, 2004, 01:58:48 PM

they do have one hell of a taping policy!

<sorry, you left yourself open for that one

>

Tim · « **Reply #44 on:** April 20, 2004, 02:14:35 PM »

totally spaced them, but really other than that I can't think of anyone...

nick, you guys just need to sack up, buy some seats together and run some stereo configs head height from the middle like real tapers

nickgregory · « **Reply #45 on:** April 20, 2004, 02:27:55 PM »

Quote from: Tim on April 20, 2004, 02:14:35 PM

totally spaced them, but really other than that I can't think of anyone...

nick, you guys just need to sack up, buy some seats together and run some stereo configs head height from the middle like real tapers

I do Tim...ABB, every year

in all seriousness, once DMB gets back to a core group of non college aged drunken idiots, if that ever happens, I will absolutely do it....

Tim · « **Reply #46 on:** April 20, 2004, 02:32:25 PM »

a good friend once said that taping DMB is like trying to tape the Beatles....

plucks · « **Reply #47 on:** April 20, 2004, 02:41:24 PM »

phish shows from NYE run 98 until vegas i thought were quite poor sounding. Mixed very brightly. I thought this vegas run sounded great!
Ran 4022s, not fob. Keep an eye out for a d.l soon.
<end of thread hijack>

nickgregory · « **Reply #48 on:** April 20, 2004, 05:51:32 PM »

Quote from: Tim on April 20, 2004, 02:32:25 PM

a good friend once said that taping DMB is like trying to tape the Beatles....

that is actually a good analogy...the crowd cheering surges you get with a DMB show is freaking loud at times....

gewwang · « **Reply #49 on:** April 21, 2004, 10:00:52 PM »

I ran head height for DMB 9/11/03 at Hershey last year from the fifth row. The screaming is pretty bad at times but the music sounded great from there. Of course this is an outdoor "smallish" stadium where the stacks are lower and the stage is narrower than most stadium shows. I would not recommend running 5th row center in a covered amphitheater.