Topic: Help me make a TOUGH upgrade decision...Please, I am so indecisive!

[Bdifr78]

Ok so I am still pondering how to complete my upgrade.  I just signed on for the deal that Trey hooked up for the KM140s and I have a tough decision to make ahead of me.  Here are my thoughts.

Option 1

Buy a opti mod V3 from whichever vendor gives me the best price.

Option 2

Buy one of the P-mod UA5s and send it to Doug to make it either a T+ mod or a W+ mod...

and...

Buy some used TLs to have LDs and selectable paterns in addition to the KM140s on the way.

I am torn.  I can't figure it out.  I have listened to all kinds of clips of the different pre amps with TLs and and I have listened to the KM140s with the V3 and UA5 but there is so much more in the equation for me to consider.

Help!  Opinions needed.  Thanks.

Joe

[Sanjay]

Well of the choices a V3, seems a waste to pay alot of money to get an already modded ua-5 remodded. Just wait for one if you really want it.  Or I say get different caps for your neumanns instead of teh TL's

[Nick Graham]

Go KM140>V3, unbelievable combo. I ran it for almost a year (that's a record for me!).

I can send you some discs that'll definitely convince you...

[Lil Kim Jong-Il]

Yes, the KM140->V3 is my pick too.

I don't know anout the UA5 but you can fit the neumanns bodies, V3+bat, and JB3 into a fanny pack for those low profile situations.

[Josh]

if i were you, i'd get a V3.  that's what's next on my list.

but, having lots of toys is fun too.  

it seems when you price out a new mod and the TLs...you should only about 4-5 bills away.

just save up the loot and run the 140>ua-5 and keep borrowing different pres from your buddies.

[BC]

Go KM140>V3, unbelievable combo. I ran it for almost a year (that's a record for me!).

I would do this too, killer rig you will never really need to upgrade from unless you just want to try a new flavor.

[heath]

no brainer   v3

[Bdifr78]

So far that's no votes for buying a UA5 and upgrading it and getting TLs?

huh...

I think you are all confirming my gut feeling...

uh....umm...

uh.......

Still can't decide. I guess I have no brain

I really want some TLs cause I love thier sound...but I would want a better pre for the km140s...and I really want a V3.

I should probably buy the V3 and then just save up for some real nice LDs or run the km140s for awhile then sell and get some LDs.

See, I am really indecisive

[Busman Audio]

If you can do the Tls then get a T+mod UA5 you will not be dissapointed. check out ymsb 6-24-05 on the archive.

[plucks]

v3 baby!

it will be worth it.  Buy a figure 8 cap & then you can run MS or Blumlein if you get w figure 8s.
KM140/V3 combo is excellent

[krebsy]

There's a reason the V3 is so popular. There's also a reason you don't see too many people unloading their T+ UA-5's! Now that you have some 140's on the way, I would definitely encourage you to run them a few times before you make a decision on a set of TL's. You might find that you don't want 'em. Of course you might find yourself lusting after some U89's!!  Good luck making up your mind. We've all been there!!   

[Lil Kim Jong-Il]

Joe, I would suggest that you plan on keeping the KM140>V3 combo even if you decide to go with LDs at some point.

There are going to be taping situations where you will want to be low profile in order to convince the venue to let you be up front or so that you can be upfront when it's not sanctioned.  If you only want to tape from the section or on stage, the LDs won't hold you back.  But for FOB you can't really sport the LDs all the time.  And regardless of what you think you like now, you will start doing FOB when you get those LC3 cables for the 140s and run up close a time or two. 

As much as you seem to be taping, I think you could easily justify having two pair of mics.

[Bdifr78]

Joe, I would suggest that you plan on keeping the KM140>V3 combo even if you decide to go with LDs at some point.

There are going to be taping situations where you will want to be low profile in order to convince the venue to let you be up front or so that you can be upfront when it's not sanctioned.  If you only want to tape from the section or on stage, the LDs won't hold you back.  But for FOB you can't really sport the LDs all the time.  And regardless of what you think you like now, you will start doing FOB when you get those LC3 cables for the 140s and run up close a time or two. 

As much as you seem to be taping, I think you could easily justify having two pair of mics.

Word!

[twoodruff]

m148>v3 and be done with it. Then start saving for a set of u89is

[Bdifr78]

m148>v3 and be done with it. Then start saving for a set of u89is

Why m148 in front of the V3?

[twoodruff]

m148>v3 and be done with it. Then start saving for a set of u89is

Why m148 in front of the V3?

just a personal preference

[Cooker]

TLs are great and all but IMO your 140 > V3 combo is gonna be preferable most of the time... 

or like Trey said, get a V3 then get a 148 and you will be totally set.

[hzgone]

Go KM140>V3, unbelievable combo. I ran it for almost a year (that's a record for me!).

I can send you some discs that'll definitely convince you...

I ran this combo at summercamp this year and was blown away

[JAH]

140>v3 ...I taped the Charlie Daniels Band last week or so using that combo and it was so easy to run..gotta love the trims.  You can do the optical mod if you want later...so much flexability w/ the v3 over the ua5.  The U89's will sound better throught he V3 pre than the ua5 (just a guess ;-)  ).

[plucks]

your mics will only sound as good as whats behind em

[Lil Kim Jong-Il]

your mics will only sound as good as whats behind em

and whats in front of them too.

[spreadheadtom]

your mics will only sound as good as whats behind em

and whats in front of them too.

QFT

[F.O.Bean]

140>v3 is da bomb, def go that route!

id also maybe get an m148 to run in front of the v3, nice phat/punchy sound that way

i would ideally like to get a 148 also to run most times in front of the v3

[audBall]

your mics will only sound as good as whats behind em

and whats in front of them too.

Or, if you're running 8's, what's to the side of them too.   

[Nick's Picks]

ok.  i'm going to buck the system.

i've also run the 140>v3 combo...and I lust after that sound still.  fucking great.
BUT....
the T+ UA5...i'm betting will sound just as nice behind the 140s.  and will cost a great deal less.
LD mics.."eh".  borrow someones elses and scratch the itch.

so my pick would be 140>ua5 for sure.  w/o hesitation.  I would not buy a V3 over a T+ mod.  and it sounds like yuou have a P mod all ready lined up..so it will cost you a couple hundred to get it re-oadified to T+.  its the best money spent.

got extra cash after this?
buy some actives...or dump it into your stereo so you can hear how nice the 140>T+ will sound.

Its been said, repeated and confirmed over and over here.  the  T+ sounds *very close* to the V3.  just no pretty lights.
why spend $800 more for something you can barely detect?

[thegreatgumbino]

and it sounds like yuou have a P mod all ready lined up..so it will cost you a couple hundred to get it re-oadified to T+.  its the best money spent.

To upgrade from the Pmod to the T+mod is $225 plus shipping each way.  They told me last week it there was about a 4 week bench time right now for what it's worth.

[Nick's Picks]

fuck ya!
see...better money spent.
50% the cost for a conservatively rated 80% of the performance.
I bet its closer to 90.

[F.O.Bean]

nick-IMO feature set is a great deal why i bought the v3, its a tank, has pretty lights, has 3 digi-errr 4 digi outs, and has easy powering options, also has HPFilters and just an all around better build quality, you get what you pay for!

i like the sound of the ua5's alot, but theyre feature set is bunk IMO, phantom switch right near the gain knobs, no levels, well crappy ones, and feels like an erector set, thin aluminum!

just MO of course!

[Lil Kim Jong-Il]

How is the UA5 compare on size and connector layout?  Can it be used lowprofile like the V3 or better than the V3?

[thegreatgumbino]

nick-IMO feature set is a great deal why i bought the v3, its a tank, has pretty lights, has 3 digi-errr 4 digi outs, and has easy powering options, also has HPFilters and just an all around better build quality, you get what you pay for!

i like the sound of the ua5's alot, but theyre feature set is bunk IMO, phantom switch right near the gain knobs, no levels, well crappy ones, and feels like an erector set, thin aluminum!

just MO of course!

I've been stung by the phantom switch being right next to the gain knobs, but once you make that mistake you're VERY careful to not do it again.  The levels suck, but combined with a SVU-1 or 2 for another small fee ($50-100) it's definitely doable.  And by running the SVU I can leave everything in my Nova 5 and just pull out the SVU and monitor my levels from a distance.

I didn't realize the V3 has 4 digi outs?  So you can provide 3 digital patches while your serving your JB3?

[F.O.Bean]

nick-IMO feature set is a great deal why i bought the v3, its a tank, has pretty lights, has 3 digi-errr 4 digi outs, and has easy powering options, also has HPFilters and just an all around better build quality, you get what you pay for!

i like the sound of the ua5's alot, but theyre feature set is bunk IMO, phantom switch right near the gain knobs, no levels, well crappy ones, and feels like an erector set, thin aluminum!

just MO of course!

I've been stung by the phantom switch being right next to the gain knobs, but once you make that mistake you're VERY careful to not do it again. The levels suck, but combined with a SVU-1 or 2 for another small fee ($50-100) it's definitely doable. And by running the SVU I can leave everything in my Nova 5 and just pull out the SVU and monitor my levels from a distance.

I didn't realize the V3 has 4 digi outs? So you can provide 3 digital patches while your serving your JB3?

if the right cables are around!

it has standard: one coax output, one AES1 which is a consumer aes digital signal, an AES2 which is a pro digital feed, and if modified has an optical out! so yes, 4 digi outs and 2 balanced xlr outs(which i have def used many times)

oh yeah, and an AES signal is on a 3-pin xlr like a mic cable but has 110 ohm cabling instead!

like i said, ya get what ya pair for IMO

[creekfreak]

I tend to agree with ya Bean..I have heard some moded UA-5 tapes and will easily say that they are very close to a V3 in sound...but sound is not the only reason you pay more...its built to withstand a nuclear attack, is very functional and easy to use, has real level meters along with many options for output......not to mention probably one of the better companies out there when it comes to superior customer service and quick turn aroun on any needed repairs or mods....and that is worth more to me just with that.

I tend to tell people to add to their mic collection if they have money to burn..that is what makes the difference in sound the most...I am a big fan of the TL's and will always recommend those...but the other options given are good also

[Nick's Picks]

there ya go..
to each their own.  I agree on build quality.  there really is no comparrison between the edirol and grace. 
but taping for me is all about what I hear at home.  everything esle between the lines melts away at that point.
so I try to pay for sound I like.  extra cool features are nice too.

[F.O.Bean]

there ya go..
to each their own. I agree on build quality. there really is no comparrison between the edirol and grace.
but taping for me is all about what I hear at home. everything esle between the lines melts away at that point.
so I try to pay for sound I like. extra cool features are nice too.

+T for that, to each his own

[shaggy]

You forgot to mention the optical mod on the V3 is extra...I have no idea how much more but that figures into the equation if you run a JB3.  The UA-5 has them standard.

Erector set feeling, yes.  The UA-5 weighs nothing so an argument can made about the weight you'd save (and it is a non-factor if you got the thing in a well padded bag).  The box at it's cheapest with no mods was something like $250....that is $1100 less than the V3 new.  The difference is huge between the stock and V3, The difference seems to be slight with the T+ mod in place.  So Nick has a point.   But the reality is you are paying probably at least $550 for the Pmod and another $225 for the change to a T+ mod.  That will be at least $800 all up after the shipping and handling, I suspect.  I have seen used V3s for as low as $1100.  So, you are saving 300-400 dollars.  Not 800.

[Bdifr78]

Damn...thanks for all the spirited discussion.  This was exactley what I have been looking for.  I am not as experienced as the rest of you and have only run this one rig so I desperately needed these opinions. 

I don't know still.  I am leaning more towards the V3.  I am lusting after the V3 right now and I don't think I am lusting for some LDs.  But I am gonna listen to a few more combos and see.  I have the money now to get the V3 so I think I should do it, cause I can save up for some TLs a hell of a lot quicker than a V3.  And if I end up getting the T+ mod UA5 and some LDs, then decide I want the V3, it is a much more expensive proposition and I know I won't want to get rid of the mics too to afford the V3.

So basically, I have no idea yet.  But it is looking like V3.  I guess I am no real hurry.  Maybe I should just run the km140s with the digi mod UA5 for a few shows and see how I feel then.

[creekfreak]

well, I am not going to argue a V3 either...I love mine...and you will love yours....

[Bdifr78]

something that no one has mentioned, & the deciding factor of why I bought a T-Mod+ UA5 over a V3, is the ability to run an "on the fly" matrix w/ the UA5.  If you have the ability to get SBD patches consistently then this is a major advantage, imo.

FWIW, I paid $625 for my UA5 brand new.

I would be paying a whole hell of a lot more than $625 when it's all said and done.  $550 for a Pmod in the yardsale, $225 for the mod, shipping both ways would probably be $20.  So that's $800 not including a SVU1.  So for 900 I don't really know at this point.  If someone had a T+ mod for sale it would obviously a bit less than $800 so I would consider that, but I am starting to rule out the option of buying a different oade mod and sending it to be modded.  That doesn't seem to make much sense anymore.

[Nick's Picks]

ok...625 new...but unavailable.
vs. $1300 for the v3.  if the Oades still had them, it would ber a no brainer.

you certainly CANT  GO WRONG with a V3.  it will hold its value, for sure.
the UA5s....now a rarity...might even go up a little in value depending on demand.
imagine that.

the V3 is the casts ass, and if money were no object i'd own one still.  I had the pleasure of running a lot of mics through mine.  ST-250, MK4, 480, 4022, 414s, 4071s, 140s and an AKG binaural head.  it brought the best ouf of each.
Wish my R4 sounded 1/2 as good. 

lets hear it for the V4.  a V3 w/a CF slot perhaps?  or a super fat 72000rpm 3.5" hdd.
  here's hoping.  Doug was just dreaming about the CF slot in his forum yesterday.  Wouldnt that be the bomb?

I'll through another option at you.
the fostex FR2.  Tell Doug to build you one that sounds like a v3..or a 148 like Carls does.  he can do it.  that box offers A LOT of options for him to tinker his magic into.  Pick up a 5gb pcmica hdd and happily record at 24/48.  why not?  not much more than a v3 (w/o the opti mod).  And then you get the best of all worlds.  great features, nice monitoring, good level control, robust build quality.  can't go wrong w/that either.

[Ray76]

there are not that many t-mod's around to begin with, and even fewer t-mod+ boxes.
if you want the transparent sound, you might as well buy a v3 b/c it will not be that much more expensive, unless you can find a t-mod that you can get the PLUS mod done to.  imo, the ua5's sound SO much better w/ the PLUS mod that i wouldn't invest in one without it. from the tapes i've heard the t-mod+ sounds very close to the v3 (as others have echoed) and the w-mod+ sounds very similiar to the m148 sound.  i'd like to see what others think about the m148 / wmod+ comparison b/c i am wondering if the 148 is worth the extra $...........   
tim

(oade ua5 price list)

$289.00 UA-5 DIGI-MOD
$339.95 UA-5 DIGI-MOD & Battery Pack   

$525.00 UA-5 PMOD
$579.95 UA-5 PMOD & Battery Pack   
$649.95 UA-5 PMOD PLUS
$689.95 UA-5 PMOD PLUS & Battery Pack   

$500.00 UA-5 TMOD
$549.95 UA-5 TMOD & Battery Pack   
$624.95 UA-5 TMOD PLUS
$664.95 UA-5 TMOD PLUS & Battery Pack   
   
$500.00 UA-5 WMOD
$549.95 UA-5 WMOD & Battery Pack   
$624.95 UA-5 WMOD PLUS
$664.95 UA-5 WMOD PLUS & Battery Pack

man i hope you can find a 148, from what I see they hardly come up to be sold.
ray

[BC]

Does the V3 do peak hold or anything like it?

It has a red clip LED that stays lit if you hit 0dB. Does not hold for peaks below clip though.

[Lil Kim Jong-Il]

There is a preowned V3 in the retail space you might want to look into.  If it's a good deal it might help you make up your mind.

[Bdifr78]

How much should I pay for a new opti mod V3?

I have gotten a few quotes and I just want to make sure I am getting a good deal.  I have been quoted 1450, 1425, and 1395.

[Brian Skalinder]

How much should I pay for a new opti mod V3?

I have gotten a few quotes and I just want to make sure I am getting a good deal. I have been quoted 1450, 1425, and 1395.

Considering the optical mod is a $200 value, those are real nice prices, IMO. 

[it-goes-to-eleven]

I myself am hoping the micro tracker will solve all the world's problems - famine, disease, drought, 24/96..  And since it appears to have coax in, will take a feed direct from a non-opti V3 or minime.
 
When going into a jb3, I currently use a HOSA with AES in, opti out with my minime.

[Bdifr78]

If I get one with the opti mod, will it still have a coax too?

[Brian Skalinder]

If I get one with the opti mod, will it still have a coax too?

Yes.  The opti-mod replaces the word clock.  S/PDIF via coax and XLR and AES/EBU outputs are unaffected.

[krebsy]

I thought Doug would convert the flavor of a modded UA-5 for sub $100? ie a P-mod could be changed to a T-Mod for like $60. Am I wrong or has this changed? I just can't imagine he would charge $200+ to make that swap!   

[neumannkid]

I think he will convert the Pmod to a Tmod for 65$ but to add the +mod is around 135$. I dont think this even inlcudes shipping

[thegreatgumbino]

To upgrade a Pmod to a T+mod is $225 plus shipping each way.  Confirmed about 2 weeks ago.

[neumannkid]

well the prices have changed a little but in the end its the upgrade to the + mod that pushes the price up the most.

[Bdifr78]

Yeah I confirmed it with him a few days ago too.  $225 plus shipping.

[krebsy]

OK, I missed that it was going from just P to T+. Makes sense now.

[frtower]

easy call. V-3

[Bdifr78]

easy call. V-3

Yeah I already did it.  I think I am gonna run the new rig tonight.

[F.O.Bean]

easy call. V-3

Yeah I already did it. I think I am gonna run the new rig tonight.

+T

[Bdifr78]

easy call. V-3

Yeah I already did it. I think I am gonna run the new rig tonight.

+T

DUMPSTAPHUNK!  Ya'll.  Funk should be a good test of the new gear, and the Funkbox is ideal for taping, in my opinion if the sound guy is even half decent.

[Chanher]

wait it seems like just a few months ago you bought my digimod ua-5 and some c4's etc. Now you're running Neumann KM140s>Bumblebee MIAGI-II XLRs>Lunatec V3(opti mod)>jb3? damn!

[Bdifr78]

wait it seems like just a few months ago you bought my digimod ua-5 and some c4's etc. Now you're running Neumann KM140s>Bumblebee MIAGI-II XLRs>Lunatec V3(opti mod)>jb3? damn!

Yep 

Taping got me good.  I have only being running a rig for well...under 10 weeks, but I have gotten 3 festies and like 20 other shows.  I'm thouroughly obsessed.

[Ray76]

wait it seems like just a few months ago you bought my digimod ua-5 and some c4's etc. Now you're running Neumann KM140s>Bumblebee MIAGI-II XLRs>Lunatec V3(opti mod)>jb3? damn!

Yep 

Taping got me good.  I have only being running a rig for well...under 10 weeks, but I have gotten 3 festies and like 20 other shows.  I'm thouroughly obsessed.

tell me about it. 

[stober]

with the 140's I prefer v2>mod sbm-1 than a v3 but this is my opinion.