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Author Topic: Recording My Own Band & Other Projects  (Read 4008 times)

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Offline jefflester

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Re: Recording My Own Band & Other Projects
« Reply #30 on: May 15, 2024, 01:05:10 PM »
Still think you should try what gutbucket and I both suggested. Place the H4n (or Q8) at the stage lip and then take a line out from the mixer (a copy of the mix being sent to the main PA speakers) and add that, they are both 4 channel recorders. The internal mics on the Zoom will capture content from the stage, the line in will capture what is low or missing from the stage. Then afterwards you adjust the balance between them to your liking. This will significantly improve the quality of your recordings without any additional gear and without worrying about unattended gear in the audience.
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Offline ChiroVette

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Re: Recording My Own Band & Other Projects
« Reply #31 on: May 15, 2024, 01:43:21 PM »
Still think you should try what gutbucket and I both suggested. Place the H4n (or Q8) at the stage lip and then take a line out from the mixer (a copy of the mix being sent to the main PA speakers) and add that, they are both 4 channel recorders. The internal mics on the Zoom will capture content from the stage, the line in will capture what is low or missing from the stage. Then afterwards you adjust the balance between them to your liking. This will significantly improve the quality of your recordings without any additional gear and without worrying about unattended gear in the audience.

This sounds like a great idea. I had initially dismissed it mentally because it sounded a helluva lot more complicated than it actually is when you guys suggested it, and I was trying to simplify as much as possible. I just have to look at the Q8 and see what the Line in is, whether it is 1/4 inch, XLR, or 1/8" stereo. Since everything is going through the mixer, especially when I am playing live with my backing tracks, and my guitar goes right into the mixer via my Fractal FM9. For some reason, I misinterpreted what you guys were saying as using the mixer to record, which would send the audio to my iPad via Wifi, since it's a Mackie DL-1608. But you guys are actually talking about using the Q8 or H4N to take a line from the mixer. lol Not sure why I missed that.

I am playing again in a couple of weeks, and will try that.   

I don't have the Zoom in front of me at the moment, until I get home, but there are four input or record LED lights on the unit, and usually only the two top lights are lit, which I assume is the stereo signal from the onboard mics. I never really gave it much thought what those other two red LEDs are for, but since reading your post, I am going to assume that they indicate the line in, which in this case, would be from the mixer.

Thanks again! This is what I am going to do. I suppose if I am still not 100% happy with the quality of the recording, a good next step would be buying a pair of decent mics for the Zoom. But I am getting ahead of myself.

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Recording My Own Band & Other Projects
« Reply #32 on: May 15, 2024, 04:37:29 PM »
The next step will be managing the feed from SBD to recorder.

I just looked up the Q8 Handy Recorder.  In addition to the built-in X/Y mic pair the Q8 features a pair of TRS/XLR combo jacks.  That means you can run a pair of XLR or 1/4" plug cables to the recorder from the SBD.  Note: Those are the only inputs on the Q8 other than its built-in mics, so if you do use external microphones into the Q8, which it appears capable of supporting, you will not be able to also record SBD into it at the same time. [edit- but no worries, just keep it simple with the built-in mics + SBD]

I also just looked up the Mackie DL-1608.  At that end you'll need to send the feed to the Q8 using a pair of it's AUX outs (1/4" jacks).  You'll either just additionally route the same main-out mix to that AUX pair (this will be simplest, if doing so is an option on the mackie), or make a separate AUX mix.  A separate AUX mix allows you to either essentially duplicate the same main mix that is being sent to the PA through the main outs (second simplest, try that next if you can't send the main mix to AUX), or make a somewhat different AUX mix from what is being sent to the PA, which might be useful if after doing this once or twice you determine you'd like a bit more vocals and less bass, or whatever, in the SBD recording.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2024, 04:41:05 PM by Gutbucket »
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Offline capnhook

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Re: Recording My Own Band & Other Projects
« Reply #33 on: May 15, 2024, 04:49:30 PM »
Still think you should try what gutbucket and I both suggested. Place the H4n (or Q8) at the stage lip and then take a line out from the mixer (a copy of the mix being sent to the main PA speakers) and add that, they are both 4 channel recorders. The internal mics on the Zoom will capture content from the stage, the line in will capture what is low or missing from the stage. Then afterwards you adjust the balance between them to your liking. This will significantly improve the quality of your recordings without any additional gear and without worrying about unattended gear in the audience.

You want the fast lane to significantly better recordings?  Follow this advice from jefflester, great post man


You already have the advantage of being the musician, because you have "better than a taper's chance" to get the sound engineer to send a board signal up through the snake to your recorder


You'll have less post- processing, no time-alignment if you run on stage, easy mixing


Nobody sane is going to risk a punt in the face from you if they disturb your gear, it's right there close



Play on and make great tapes  :djsmilie:




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Offline nak700s

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Re: Recording My Own Band & Other Projects
« Reply #34 on: July 13, 2024, 02:50:31 PM »
While only reading through a handful of responses, I will just say a few things:

I'm certain that your taper friend knows better than most what your needs are since you speak to him about what you want and he is aware of the music and venues you play.  That said, I know he didn't suggest that you use any shotgun mics at all.  Yes, the Nak 300 shotguns are a good pair of shotguns, but completely unnecessary for your needs.  If you were recording from the soundboard area at a fair distence away, yes, but otherwise, no.  You'd need the cp-301's, I believe, which should be the cardioid capsules.

A pair or more of Nak 300 mics, depending on whether you want to mic amps on stage or record from the FOH, are a solid pair of microphones that sound a lot better than many more current offerings at a better price, because they are discontinued.  They are also a very "forgiving" pair of mics that need a little less attention that many others.  The battery situation sucks because they don't make those batteries anymore either, which is why he suggested to modify them for 48v phantom power, thereby eliminating the need for batteries, and taking power from the Sound Devices MixPre instead (also eliminating the need for a separate pre-amp - another piece of equipment).  You can pick up a MixPre here in the Yard Sale or on ebay for a good price.  I'd recommend buying through the Yard Sale from recommended sellers if you choose to go that route.  Same with the microphones, whatever you choose.  If you can find a pair of Nak 300's already modified for 48v, even better, as they will probably be cost effective.

Regarding the audio.  As a few have pointed out, the MixPre has better pre-amps than a lot of decks out there.  Sound Devices is a professional company, unlike Zoom, who tries, but in my opinion, falls way short of Sound Devices...especially their pre-amps.  There are several MixPre decks and you'd get what you need based on your amount of inputs.  If you only plan to use a pair of mics in front of the stage, all you need is a MixPre 3.  If you think you'll want to mic monitors, amps, use in the audience, take a line out of the soundboard in addition to microphones, etc., you'd need a MixPre 6 or higher.  By your friend suggesting a MixPre 6, he is most likely thinking that you'd want to grow with it instead of having to buy a deck with more inputs later if you want to do that.  Again, that may have been part of your conversation with him, so he may have more insight that the rest of your recommendations.

Very quickly, to add about microphones: They are all subjective to your ear and personal taste.  For example, I would not choose KM184's over 300's under any foreseeable circumstances.  I've never like their sound.  You might though.  I've run a pair myself side by side with Nak 700's (everything else being equal) and asked the owner of the 184's which he liked better after only balancing the levels and bringing them all up to the same for comparison.  He knew the mic difference immediately and said that the 700's sounded much better.  He then commented that his old recordings with his old Nak 300's still hold up against the 184's he uses today.  The batteries caused a lot of people to move away from the 300's.  I still listen to my old 300 recordings and have no complaints.  You should take the advice and listen to different recordings with different mics at the same venu, preferably from the same location with the same recording decks to get the most unbiased sound you can to judge for yourself.  Your friend can help you with that too, I'm sure.

Location, location, location, as a few mentioned is of course an extremely important factor.  However, and again, your taper friend knows his shit and is making suggestions already knowing you, what you play, and the type of venues you play in.  Being that it's your band, you will be able to set up the mics wherever you want, providing the venue's rules don't prohibit it.  At a soundboard, where you can press record and walk away is ideal in smaller venues or at outdoor shows.  Having 32bit float is a plus, but any taper worth his weight in tapes knows how to set their levels.  32bit float is a relatively new option, so older tapers don't need it because they already know what they're doing.  Most of them want the smaller units with 32bit float because they use them in a stealth situation, which you will not be doing.  There are limiters on the decks for a reason...which is all you'd need, because either your friend will help you learn what to do or you already know to set your levels a little lower if you can't watch them and turn on the limiter.  I wouldn't be concerned about that.

My suggestion for you is to read all of the comments on here and write down any specific questions you still have, need more clarification on, or are just curious about.  From there, speak to your friend first and ask him those questions.  Depending on the outcome, or regardless of the outcome, you can always post those specific questions, and more if more questions arise from your conversation, and post them here.

 
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