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Author Topic: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3  (Read 103566 times)

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Offline Phil Zone

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Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
« Reply #255 on: July 11, 2023, 10:10:13 PM »
How are the run times with Talentcell batteries? I have the 6000 mah and 8300 mah, with either of these run for 12 hours?

Thanks!
Microphones: AKG 460B, 480B, Naiant Actives,CK1,CK61,CK62,CK63, CK69, Busman BSC-1, CA-14
Preamps: Naiant Littlebox, Naiant Tinyhead
Recorders: Zoom F6, Tascam DR-05

LMA Shows: http://archive.org/search.php?query=taper%3A%22Cam%20Keough%22&sort=-date

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
« Reply #256 on: July 12, 2023, 11:02:35 AM »
I use 11,000 mah (@12V output) Talentcells that will run my original F8 for 12hrs.  Not sure how long a 6,000 mah will last.

One obvious variable is how many channels will be providing phantom.  Another is the F8 version.  Zoom lists somewhat longer run times for original F8 than F8N/Pro.

There is a setting I employ that automatically turns off phantom during playback, and in that mode it will run for days on a single Talentcell.  That's probably not of particular interest to most folks here, however I note that anytime playback is stopped phantom switches back on.  In other words, phantom power (if engaged) remains on the entire time the recorder is powered up, except when playing back if that menu option is engaged.

The recorder is effectively in record/pause mode at all times if not recording or playing back, and phantom remains on the entire time the recorder is powered up except during playback.
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

Offline Phil Zone

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Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
« Reply #257 on: July 14, 2023, 08:35:58 PM »
I use 11,000 mah (@12V output) Talentcells that will run my original F8 for 12hrs.  Not sure how long a 6,000 mah will last.

One obvious variable is how many channels will be providing phantom.  Another is the F8 version.  Zoom lists somewhat longer run times for original F8 than F8N/Pro.

There is a setting I employ that automatically turns off phantom during playback, and in that mode it will run for days on a single Talentcell.  That's probably not of particular interest to most folks here, however I note that anytime playback is stopped phantom switches back on.  In other words, phantom power (if engaged) remains on the entire time the recorder is powered up, except when playing back if that menu option is engaged.

The recorder is effectively in record/pause mode at all times if not recording or playing back, and phantom remains on the entire time the recorder is powered up except during playback.

Does it just make it to 12 hours or would it push on a bit further? how many channels in use and phantom?

Thanks, trying to do math based on your use case and scale that to the F8N pro since its a little more power hungry.

Thank you!
Microphones: AKG 460B, 480B, Naiant Actives,CK1,CK61,CK62,CK63, CK69, Busman BSC-1, CA-14
Preamps: Naiant Littlebox, Naiant Tinyhead
Recorders: Zoom F6, Tascam DR-05

LMA Shows: http://archive.org/search.php?query=taper%3A%22Cam%20Keough%22&sort=-date

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
« Reply #258 on: July 17, 2023, 06:10:08 PM »
Apologies that I don't have better information for you, but this may help-

I'm not fully sure how long my arrangement will run.  I have run the F8 for around 12hrs in the past on the 11,000 mah Talentcell, years ago.  Draw included phantom on all 8 channels, powering one DPA XLR adapter and 6 PFAs converters providing low voltage power to miniature DPAs, + one phantom powered Naiant X8, but not sure what that equates to using more typical SDCs.

That said, I'd not feel comfortable if I needed to run that long constantly without a backup battery in parallel or to swap over to, or at least through testing first.  I've only run that combo with the single external all the way down to shut-off a couple times by accident after the battery was partly depleted [note that the F8 switches off when there is still one light lit on the Talentcell's meter if there are no backup internal batteries or other external supply], yet have never done so over the course of a single extended session.  I originally set up the F8 with a "Y" splitter in the external battery cable so I could swap from one Talentcell to the other and/or use both in parallel simultaneously for long duration events such as full day fests, primarily because that was how I had previous recorders set up for use with much smaller capacity "DVD batteries" that the Talentcells replaced.  However, in practice I've never actually needed to swap from one to the other during the course of a festival day.  I instead either simply recharge the Talentcell I had been using overnight before the next day, and/or switch to using the other one the following day. Granted, even prior to moving to the F8 I generally tended to no longer record every act, nor leave the recorder running constantly all day at a fest, but shut it down to conserve power as long as I'm around to do so whenever music was being performed at other stages.   The last I recorded afternoon into evening and just left the F8 on the entire time, recording for the majority of that time (phantom on the entire time), was a small fest last December where I ran for something like eight hours or so, after which the battery meter indicated it was only around half-depleted.  Although in reality it was probably somewhat more than half depleted given the previously mentioned "shut down before the final light goes out" behavior.

All in all,  if you plan to record for 12hrs straight I'd think a 11,000 mah battery is likely the bare minimum, which can work fine in combination with with backup internals and a spare external you can swap over to.  A "Y" power cable is extra insurance for the external battery swap, in case the backup internals have lost charge or are missing.

Last I looked a few years back, Talentcell offered a few different capacities in each case size.  In other words, there was a thick and a thin "brick" case size but maybe four or more capacities depending on how many cells were inside.  At the time the 11,000 mah one was the largest capacity offered in the larger brick size.  I considered picking up whatever the largest capacity was in the smaller case size as that would certainly be adequate for most concerts, but have just used these.
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

Offline Phil Zone

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Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
« Reply #259 on: July 24, 2023, 03:24:50 PM »
So, I bought an F8N Pro and used it for 3 shows this past weekend. For some reason, I don't really love it. I find it very heavy and power hungry compared to the F6 which I have had for about 6 months now. I'm thinking about returning it and buying an F6 in its place.

What I really like about the F8
-dual card slots
-locking power
-8 channels (however probably useless to me)
-nice form factor

What I don't like
-Heavy
-power hungry
-The meters are hard to look at for me
-no l mount

F6 pros
-light
-easy to power
-cheap
-easier to use
-meters are easier to look at

F6 cons
-single sd card slot in an annoying location
-usb c connector feels destined to fail although I'm sure it'll be fine
-weird shape, but I can get over that.


I don't know what the point of this is other than sharing my quick experience with the two. Upon first usage though, I really think the F6 is plenty good for what I'm doing. The F8 just seems like overkill, and is rough on my shoulder.
Microphones: AKG 460B, 480B, Naiant Actives,CK1,CK61,CK62,CK63, CK69, Busman BSC-1, CA-14
Preamps: Naiant Littlebox, Naiant Tinyhead
Recorders: Zoom F6, Tascam DR-05

LMA Shows: http://archive.org/search.php?query=taper%3A%22Cam%20Keough%22&sort=-date

Online voltronic

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Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
« Reply #260 on: July 26, 2023, 10:27:41 AM »
I never have had a problem with the F6 having the SD card access behind the battery mount, since I always use the card reader function in the deck itself. I do wish it had dual card recording for redundancy.

I would like to see an F8 with an L-mount on the back. It's the only way I power my F6, which runs forever on a 6600mAh pack. Even with a locking Hirose, I prefer to have no power cable at all to remove a potential point of failure; the L battery gives me total confidence.They would have to make the overall unit a little deeper to move the TC BNCs to the sides. The proprietary Zoom input connector could be removed entirely, as could the barrel DC connector as you would have three other powering options already. Also, convert the USB connector to a C-type as found in the F3 and F6. The sides and back would look similar to the SD Mix-Pre 10 II, which seems to be its closest competitor.
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Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
« Reply #261 on: July 26, 2023, 01:43:40 PM »
Agreed the proprietary Zoom input connector can go, and the change to USB C, but please retain the DC powering barrel connector.

Since F8 is smaller, lighter, has a better build quality, cleaner preamps on all 8 chs, and a better ADC than the Tascam DR-680 which it replaced in my setup, I'm quite content with it on those accounts.  The physical change I most wish for is an AES/SPDIF input connector and word clock functionality. 
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

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Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
« Reply #262 on: July 26, 2023, 03:53:05 PM »
word clock functionality.

It was my understanding that the F8 has this already. From what I have read, Zoom and MOTU have proprietary methods where you can derive word clock via timecode. See the email reply from Zoom customer support posted here:

https://gearspace.com/board/product-alerts-older-than-2-months/1015236-zoom-announces-new-feature-rich-f8-multitrack-field-recorder-2.html
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Offline Phil Zone

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Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
« Reply #263 on: July 27, 2023, 12:37:31 AM »
I returned the F8 and went for a second F6, I can always slave them together if I need to do more than 6 tracks which never happens. The F8 has a lot going for it but not worth the weight. Agreed the L mount battery is really awesome, something I didn't know how much I liked until I didn't have it.
Microphones: AKG 460B, 480B, Naiant Actives,CK1,CK61,CK62,CK63, CK69, Busman BSC-1, CA-14
Preamps: Naiant Littlebox, Naiant Tinyhead
Recorders: Zoom F6, Tascam DR-05

LMA Shows: http://archive.org/search.php?query=taper%3A%22Cam%20Keough%22&sort=-date

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
« Reply #264 on: July 27, 2023, 08:56:21 AM »
word clock functionality.

It was my understanding that the F8 has this already. From what I have read, Zoom and MOTU have proprietary methods where you can derive word clock via timecode. See the email reply from Zoom customer support posted here:

https://gearspace.com/board/product-alerts-older-than-2-months/1015236-zoom-announces-new-feature-rich-f8-multitrack-field-recorder-2.html

Thanks for the link, I rarely visit GS these days and missed that thread.  No real conclusion on that in the thread however. My interpretation is that it may or may not be possible to clock-lock two F8s, but it doesn't support wordclock per se.  My primary interest is clock-lock to my other non Zoom word clock capable recorders: R44 and DR680, primarily for soundboard recording purposes as I have no free channels on the F8, but also for occasional non-live band recordings where I have some sources individually mic'd.  If I knew I could lock the clocks of F8 and F3 or F6 I'd probably pick one of those latter two up just for those purposes.

I can always slave them together if I need to do more than 6 tracks

Is there a confirmed way to link clocks of two F6 which achieves true sample level sync?
« Last Edit: July 27, 2023, 10:25:24 AM by Gutbucket »
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

Offline Phil Zone

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Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
« Reply #265 on: July 27, 2023, 09:01:17 AM »
I can always slave them together if I need to do more than 6 tracks

Is there a confirmed way to link clocks of two F6 which achieves true sample level sync?
[/quote]

My understanding is that each F6 has a time code port that you can make either a master or slave. I'm not sure if it's sample exact but I'd imagine it's very close. I'll have to try it one of these days and report back!
Microphones: AKG 460B, 480B, Naiant Actives,CK1,CK61,CK62,CK63, CK69, Busman BSC-1, CA-14
Preamps: Naiant Littlebox, Naiant Tinyhead
Recorders: Zoom F6, Tascam DR-05

LMA Shows: http://archive.org/search.php?query=taper%3A%22Cam%20Keough%22&sort=-date

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
« Reply #266 on: July 27, 2023, 10:41:43 AM »
That's the rub and the open question.  Time code is accurate to video frame precision, which is something like an order of magnitude less precise than audio sample level precision of wordclock. 

Probably close enough for sources that need not be tightly phase correlated such as recording a soundboard feed or audience/ambiance channels on one recorder in addition to recording the primary microphone pair(s) on another (that being an example of a typical taper situation, analogous to it being close enough for individual iso mics on talent in the typical video/film use cases), yet not close enough to allow splitting highly correlated sources across two different recorders - say the Left channel of a stereo pair on one recorder and the Right on the other, or two different forward facing pairs that have very similar content and are intended to be mixed together, or other multichannel microphone arrays where there is stereo image capture happening in the pair that relies on an accurate phase relationship between channels.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2023, 11:34:23 AM by Gutbucket »
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

Offline Datfly

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Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
« Reply #267 on: July 27, 2023, 10:57:55 AM »
I can always slave them together if I need to do more than 6 tracks

Is there a confirmed way to link clocks of two F6 which achieves true sample level sync?

My understanding is that each F6 has a time code port that you can make either a master or slave. I'm not sure if it's sample exact but I'd imagine it's very close. I'll have to try it one of these days and report back!
[/quote]

This might answer that...also in the comment section one guy time locked 3 F6's together!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvUAcosMcoc
« Last Edit: July 27, 2023, 11:06:46 AM by Datfly »
Mics: Schoeps MK41's - Ass't Shure & Sennheiser for stage
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Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
« Reply #268 on: July 27, 2023, 11:56:42 AM »
^ From that video, it looks like it does work with sample-rate clock accuracy, at least between two F6's using a custom cable and the specific methodology he is using to get it to work, including making a short dummy recording first each time to force clock sync. Cool that can be done.  I'd still want to check for sample accurate sync before splitting a phase-correlated source between two recorders.

And unfortunately its not universal word-clock which works without much effort between all kinds of equipment, but is instead specific to linking two identical recorders using a proprietary manufacturer's method, much like linking two R44's.  It took a few years before captnhook realized one needs to disable pre-record on both R44s to get them to start in sync.

Regardless, I'd be interested to find out if it also works between different model F series recorders that both support timecode.
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

Offline jefflester

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Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
« Reply #269 on: August 29, 2023, 05:45:23 PM »
I was using my f8 for recording my own band but I switched back to my DR-680mkII due to high levels. I'm mostly recording direct line outs on XLRs (guitar amp, bass amp, keys, SBD feed, drum submix) and having to drop the levels to basically near zero to not have my levels be too hot. I didn't see any menu selection to alternate between mic in and line in so I was basically hitting my XLR inputs with line level when they were looking for mic level. So RTF, only way to really input a line level is through the 1/4" TRS rather than XLR, which is 20 dB lower. But the line level is still going through the preamp. Am I reading that right?

pg 25:
"Inputs connected with XLR plugs can be set from +10 to
+75 dB, and inputs connected with TRS plugs can be set
from –10 to +55 dB."
DPA4061 HEB -> R-09 / AT943 -> CA-UGLY -> R-09
AKG CK63 -> nBob actives -> Baby NBox -> R-09/DR2d
AKG CK63 -> AKG C460B -> Zoom F8/DR-680MKII
Line Audio CM4/Superlux S502/Samson C02/iSK Little Gem/Sennheiser E609/Shure SM57 -> Zoom F8/DR-680MKII (multitracked band recordings)

 

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