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Author Topic: 3 foot split omnis stage lip Hunter and Amendola?  (Read 13532 times)

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Offline MakersMarc

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3 foot split omnis stage lip Hunter and Amendola?
« on: June 13, 2015, 12:48:07 PM »
I rarely run stage lip, and when I have, it's been my 4022s x-y. But I'm anxious to try my Line Audio OM1 pair and my 36 inch split Gak bar...how would this sound? I dont have the recorder to be able to run a center channel. Thanks!
« Last Edit: June 13, 2015, 01:24:08 PM by MakersMarc »
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Offline aaronji

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Re: 3 foot split omnis stage lip Hunter and Amendola?
« Reply #1 on: June 13, 2015, 01:01:16 PM »
Do it!!!  It will sound great!!!  Instrumental jazz is often excellent stage-lip/on-stage.  If you want to be safe, put the 4022s in the middle...

Offline perks

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Re: 3 foot split omnis stage lip Hunter and Amendola?
« Reply #2 on: June 13, 2015, 01:14:37 PM »
When I've seen Charlie and Scott perform they sit spread apart, facing each other so the audience in the front of the stage is looking at their profile. I believe Charlie sits on his amp. So if you run split omni you may get Scott predominately in your left channel and Charlie in the right. Just something to consider.
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Re: 3 foot split omnis stage lip Hunter and Amendola?
« Reply #3 on: June 13, 2015, 01:55:53 PM »
Thanks guys gonna run the 4022 safety copy xy in the middle. If it works out I'll be sure to post.  :D
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Offline audBall

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Re: 3 foot split omnis stage lip Hunter and Amendola?
« Reply #4 on: June 13, 2015, 02:00:55 PM »
I hope to catch them in Phoenix the following night. Let us know how it goes.
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Offline MakersMarc

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Re: 3 foot split omnis stage lip Hunter and Amendola?
« Reply #5 on: June 13, 2015, 08:58:00 PM »
  :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Offline Gutbucket

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Re: 3 foot split omnis stage lip Hunter and Amendola?
« Reply #6 on: June 16, 2015, 01:11:57 PM »
Photo below [edit- found 'em, see first photo next post] shows a similar spaced omni + separate coincident setup for recording Charlie's trio back in 2010 at a then brand new performance space here.  Stage arrangement was Eric Kalb on drums, left side with kit facing sideways; Charlie center on a stool (bass amp directly behind, top-strings fender slightly to the right); Michael Williams on bass trumpet on the right side (rather quiet, a challenge to bring up enough in my mix, louder out in the house).

At the time I was into using miniature omnis on thin stalks paced across the stagelip, and I'd gaff taped four DPA 4060s to aluminum TIG welding rod stock and bent each into a curve, with the intent of gaff taping them to the stage lip front edge.  That would've placed the mics about 2' above the stage, each spaced about 3'-4' apart, for about an 11' total spread across the front, nearly invisible to the audience.  The theater manager didn't want any mics protruding above stage level, so I ended up just laying them down onto the stage surface instead, with about the same spacing, and pointed them out to Charlie and the guys (who were standing off stage in back) so they hopefully wouldn't step on them!   It was also my inaugural run of the Tetramic, which the manager allowed me to just peak over the edge of the stage at the center, between the omnis.   So that's what can be seen in the photo. 

It was interesting listening to the omnis as individual pairs.  Considered as individual spaced omni pairs, the mic arrangement sort of had the left-most two omnis centered on the kit, the center pair on Charlie, and the right pair centered on the horn (though the level of the often muted horn was low and Charlie's amps competed with over the horn on that side).  The center pair alone would have worked pretty well on it's own but the combination of four was better, and provided a lot of mix flexibility which helped balance things.  I could bring up the horn more, the clean drum kit attack and pan across the stereo image, and massage the overall balance of all three musicians. It was fun but a challenge to mix because I recorded the four omnis to separate R-09 recorders, one for the inside pair, the second for the outer pair, and those needed to be carefully stretched and synced.  I distributed this locally on CDs, but never upped it anywhere.  I can "cloud it" up somewhere for download if you guys care to hear it.. and if someone wants to up it to the LMA that's totally cool by me.

After all the syncing and mixing I moved on to something else and never did anything with the separate Tetramic ambisonic recording, recorded to the R44, which is why I needed to align & post-sync the files from the two separate R09s.

Hmmm, can't locate that year of recordings on the backup drives here at work, will have to look for the photos and recording once I get home tonight.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2015, 04:07:39 PM by Gutbucket »
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Offline Gutbucket

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Re: 3 foot split omnis stage lip Hunter and Amendola?
« Reply #7 on: June 16, 2015, 01:16:25 PM »
Hey, found the raw files and a couple photos of the setup described above.  See below.  First photo shows the mics and general setup.  You can really only see the left two of the four omnis.  The Tetramic is on the stand peaking over the lip centered between the four.  Spacing actually ended up being more like 4' between the center pair, and an additional 3' out to either outside omni. 

I'll dig up the tracked and flac'd 2-channel stereo mixdown at home tonight if anyone is interested.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2015, 04:10:52 PM by Gutbucket »
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: 3 foot split omnis stage lip Hunter and Amendola?
« Reply #8 on: June 16, 2015, 01:31:14 PM »
Here's a photo showing my original intent of those 'curved stalks' with the miniature omnis on them, setup for another jazz trio at a different venue.  Only three of the omnis on stalks this time, but attached as intended with them sticking up instead of laying down.  The center stalk omni is attached to the stand with the Tetramic at the top and coincident ADK TLs underneath.  The camera flash makes the stalks easily visible, appearing thicker, more intrusive, and far more obvious than they actually were.  I set them up four across about three times at this same gig, same band, before two of the band members even took notice of them.  The short stand with normal looking mics distracted all attention from the thin black curved stalks.

Edit- this was probably the apex of my trying lots of things at the same time and comparing them, running three separate simultaneous recordings in this circumstance.  10 channels total but on only two recorders without sync issues this time.  4 for the Tetramic > R44; 4 for the 4060 omnis (one boundary mounted to the wall beneath the lip facing the room/audience) and two for the TLs > DR-680.  Crazy perhaps, but loads of fun and a great opportunity to figure things out by doing it this way.

« Last Edit: June 16, 2015, 04:17:48 PM by Gutbucket »
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

Offline dean

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Re: 3 foot split omnis stage lip Hunter and Amendola?
« Reply #9 on: June 16, 2015, 03:27:03 PM »
Thanks guys gonna run the 4022 safety copy xy in the middle. If it works out I'll be sure to post.  :D

Excellent choice.  I hope to hear it, per...
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Re: 3 foot split omnis stage lip Hunter and Amendola?
« Reply #10 on: June 17, 2015, 05:26:31 PM »
Thanks Guys, should be fun....I don't have my backup solid state (just ordered another wmod 661 today)yet so prolly run 4022>148>dat in the middle and OM1 split Gak bar into the 661. Gut, thanks for the wealth of info, most appreciated. venue is pretty cool with recording as long as you're not in the way and sadly, being Tucson and 107 I'm expecting a light crowd, hope to be mistaken. Lamest crowds in any city I've lived in or been to.  ::) last time I saw Charlie in 2002 or so he had a fantastic singer from NY so I ran 15 away and not lip.
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Re: 3 foot split omnis stage lip Hunter and Amendola?
« Reply #11 on: June 17, 2015, 06:15:41 PM »
On stage / at the lip is the place to be for this stuff, as long as it's all instrumental.  One of the cool things about getting the mics on stage is you'll clearly pickup all of Charlie's subtle (and not so subtle!) grunts, groans, and shouts, along with a the off-mic verbal communications between the two musicians which often can't be heard out in the room.  I really dig that stuff on my recordings of his groups.

It ought to cool off a good bit out there the desert evenings, no?  I'd imagine that's when folks venture out.  Feels like late summer here today in South Florida, temp hit about 92 which is typically about as hot at we get, but it feels hotter as its humid, especially so out in midday in the sun.   Will be more so when the rains hit, its been mostly dry so far this season.  The difference between now and late summer here isn't day time temps but progressively warming nights.  Not that much  cooler at 4am here come Sept.

Have fun with it, should be a great show. 

If anyone want's to hear the trio recording I was blabbering about above just let me know and I'll dig it out.
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

Offline audBall

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Re: 3 foot split omnis stage lip Hunter and Amendola?
« Reply #12 on: June 17, 2015, 06:31:45 PM »
It ought to cool off a good bit out there the desert evenings, no?

Tucson has it a little better than the Phoenix valley as they're about 1000 ft higher in elevation so their nights are a little better than ours. Currently, we're experiencing an "excessive heat wave" with temps a few degrees higher than normal. This time of year the temperature doesn't really fall below 100F until after 9-10pm with average overnight lows around 86-88F. The heat definitely affects show turnouts, but lots of people want to get out at night cuz, well, that's the only time for reprieve. Tucson has always struggled with show turnouts, regardless of the time of year. They have an absolutely thriving underground scene with lots of up-and-coming bands, however, it's always a challenge to get folks out to some of the pricier gigs.

Ok, enough sidetracking. Hope the show turns out well for you, Marc. I look forward to catching the show tomorrow.
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Offline MakersMarc

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Re: 3 foot split omnis stage lip Hunter and Amendola?
« Reply #13 on: June 17, 2015, 07:11:15 PM »
Spot on all that Audball....thanks guys, report later on.....
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Re: 3 foot split omnis stage lip Hunter and Amendola?
« Reply #14 on: June 18, 2015, 11:59:48 AM »
Showed up early and caught Charlie and Scott at the end of sound check...nice guys, no issues with taping as long as I ran low. So the stage is elevated about 3 feet, I put my stand dead center so mics were a few inches above stage level. Sorry no pics....no smartie phone. 4022s x-y in the middle clamped to the Gak bar, line audio OM1s split 3 feet. Each dpa was pointed pretty much at each player.

So far everything sounds nice. I guessed at levels because I had no soundcheck at all, and the line audio>m148>warm mod sbm1>M1 was a bit hot....but not audibly clipped, the smapper will take a hell of a lot of level, I've never clipped it. Was at about 4 on the dial. 4022>Wmod 661 not as hot, started and finished at 5. Gonna be some fan noise (not rumble, but just noise) from the fan out in the house, it was deathly hot. Congress has no A/C, only a crappy swamp cooler. Sweaty tits hot.  >:D

Great show, two sets, with a landfill sales intermission. Hunters faces effing crack me up. Believe it or not about 50 people, tops. But enthusiastic jazz heads. Tucson.  ::) Charlie is of course amazing, but really impressed with Amendola.

First impression of the OM1 is that this might be one of the best bargains out there, nice and warm, not super detailed but very pleasing. Worth a hell of a lot more than 250 a pair. Wow. 

Anyone want to volunteer to upload to etree?
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