Topic: Best stealthable 24bit device?

[travelinbeat]

I'm very used to my iRiver h120 however I fear that it may have one foot in the grave.  I've been uneasy about making the leap into the 24bit world, mostly because it would mean leaving the good ol' days of my beloved iRiver.  Can anyone point out some key differences between some of the more popular (and inexpensive) 24bit recorders out there?  I'd like to keep it similar in size to my old h120 (cigarette pack size, give or take).  Most of my shows are indoor alternative rock shows however I mix it up with all sorts of different scenerios.  I use Church mics (CA-11's and CA-14's) and a Church 9100 Preamp.

Thanks in advance!

[flintstone]

Below is a list of all the recorders I can think of that are
--available in USA as a new item
--less than $500
--have built-in mics,
--about the same size as the H120.

The list is sorted by size, smallest first. 
There are lots of other machines available used.

Most of the advice you'll receive here is "I own X and I like it,"
which is fine as far as it goes.  More valuable is advice that says,
"I tried X and Y and Z, and decided to keep X." 

There is no comprehensive comparison that includes all of these machines. 
Guysonic has bench tests that show input noise levels for many on the list. 
Use the search function to find his posts.

Flintstone

---------------

Yamaha Pocketrak 2G
Yamaha Pocketrak CX (expected in August)
Sony MZ-RH1 and MZ-M200 HiMD
Marantz PMD620
M-Audio Microtrack 2496 (discontinued, external T mic)
M-Audio Microtrack II (external T mic)
Edirol R-09 (discontinued)
Zoom H2
Olympus LS-10 
Edirol R-09 HR
Tascam DR-1
Galaxy Audio HDR2
Zoom H4
Sony PCM-D50

Can anyone think of any I missed?

[stantheman1976]

I thought Hi-MD only did 16 bit.

I have the Sony D50.  It's a little bulky but it's a great machine.  It has good quality internal mics and preamps and I enjoy the fact that it has dedicated buttons and controls for every major function.  The main complaint is that it only uses Sony MS Pro Duo sticks.  Other than that I cannot find one bad thing to say about the unit.  I've also heard other people complain that it doesn't record directly to MP3 but these are people who don't appreciate high quality audio in the first place.

[Arni99]

Yes, the SONY MZ-RH1 does only 16bit 44.1kHz.
Nevertheless it sounds really great BUT 16/44.1 recording is limited to 94min 55seconds on a 1GB HI-MD.
HI-SP mode recording allows 7h55min compressed ATRAC3 256kbit/s on a 1GB HI-MD..

[stantheman1976]

Not denying its quality at all.  The OP was looking for 24 bit recorders.  That's the only reason I pointed that out.

[69mako]

Suscribing to this thread because I am looking up upgrade from my trusty JB3 by christmas....

Mako

[ScotK]

No one's thrown the Korg MR-1 in here - just got one and haven't used it in the field yet, but it
can do 24bit and should be stealthable, plus there are good bargains these days on them.

s

[travelinbeat]

I really like the way that MR-1 looks, but the price tag is pretty heavy-- looks like I could get 2 r09's for the price of one MR-1 and I just don't know where Korg gets off... I've heard that the MR-1's battery leaves a lot to be desired (2.5hrs?), so what is it doing to warrant such an incredible price difference?

[flintstone]

Thanks for mentioning the Korg MR-1.  It used to cost $700. 
Today, the best price I could find is $569 at http://www.djdeals.com

Guysonic has a review of the MR-1 here
http://www.sonicstudios.com/mr-1revw.htm

Korg is offering a $200 rebate on the MR-1 if purchased by
August 31.   Here's the link to the Korg mail in rebate form
http://www.korg.com/gear/promotion_img/MR1_Rebate_$200.pdf

To be eligible for the rebate you have to purchase from an authorized
dealer. DJ Deals is OK.

The rebate brings the final price to ($569 - $200) = $369
That's more like it!  (The rebate kinda makes you wonder if there's
an "MR-2" model coming soon!)

In addition to its ability to record in 1-bit mode, the Korg MR-1
is unusual in that it records to a 20 GB hard disc.  So you don't
have to purchase any flash cards to use with the MR-1.

One problem with the MR-1 is short battery life, only about 2.5 hours
using the internal rechargeable battery (can't be removed).  Korg
addressed this by offering to give away an external battery sled
with 4 AA cells to people who register their MR-1.  Here's the link
for the mail-in request for the battery sled
http://www.korg.com/gear/promotion_img/MR1_coupon.pdf

Flintstone

[edtyre]

My 02 cents on the Korg MR-1

I recorded 50+ shows (all stealth) with it.

Internal battery doesn't last 2 hours.
You can power it with Korg's external pack (takes 4 AA's)
or any external  batt pack of choice.

Hard drive unit, so bumps and movement can effect the recording.
i had a few skips on GA shows where i was bumped into a lot.

Sound quality is great. Audiogate software is really simple
and easy to use.

Build quality is top notch, when you hold the Korg in your hand
it feels like a quality piece of gear, not a plastic toy like most
of the others (hey i still use my plastic toy recorder too)

Also if you have to add gain using the Korg (and not an external pre)
going above 6-7  adds a LOT of noise to the recordings. Not good for
Nbox users (fixed gain) recording medium to low volume shows.

[ScotK]

I picked up an MR-1 recently from JR. Besides the $200 rebate, I got the free Korg battery pack
and a $75 gift card for JR.  Someone posted the deal over in Retail, but don't know if it's still
on at JR or not.

s

[travelinbeat]

So is it fair to say that the three biggest differences between the MR-1 and most other stealthable 24bit recorders is >$200 (before rebate), shortass battery life, and an onboard 20GB harddrive instead of CF?

[bgalizio]

So is it fair to say that the three biggest differences between the MR-1 and most other stealthable 24bit recorders is >$200 (before rebate), shortass battery life, and an onboard 20GB harddrive instead of CF?

Don't forget the "records in DSD" feature. IMO, the MR-1 has excellent convertors and the DSD recording is quite nice.

[travelinbeat]

So then the DSD is what accounts for the price variations between it and it's peers?

[edtyre]

My feelings are the MR-2 is going to be killer (expensive)
probably with solid state hard drive, which will make
the battery issue go away as they are easy to power.

The form, feel, build quality, metering, menus and
software are all first rate.

One other thing no one has mentioned. You can record straight
to 24/192 and then master right to DVD-A if thats your thing.
Or play the files back from PC. No other very small unit has these
higher res abilities. Its the reason i still keep one and use it.

Who knows when we will have the abilty to play DSD files
or make DSD disks? (easily on my Mac with cheap or free software)

[Carlos E. Martinez]

Hard drive unit, so bumps and movement can effect the recording.
i had a few skips on GA shows where i was bumped into a lot.

Was it reported this unit doing so?

The Sound Devices units also record on HD and CF (at the same time) and no one has reported any skips while carrying it around, which is it supposed to do as location recorder.

You mean the MR1 won't work that way?

[flintstone]

The MR-1 has no Compactflash slot, just the internal hard disc.

[Carlos E. Martinez]

The MR-1 has no Compactflash slot, just the internal hard disc.

Both Korgs use internal HD, but it's no supposed to skip when carrying it around.

[moooose]

just my 0.02 about the korg.

I own a MR-1 and did many stealth recordings with it. Never had a single problem, I can even imaging you can disguise it as a MP3 player; for extended battery life I'm using a self made battery sled holding 4 AA batteries.
It sounds great, is solid and can record in a wide range of quality and formats, from MP3 to DSD.

[travelinbeat]

how long do you get with the device + 4 AA's?

[edtyre]

how long do you get with the device + 4 AA's?

4+ hours  Enough to do most standard shows.
Carry a few extra AA's to extend your times.

Keith is selling a MR-1 in the Yard Sale.

[gewwang]

Hard drive unit, so bumps and movement can effect the recording.
i had a few skips on GA shows where i was bumped into a lot.

Was it reported this unit doing so?

The Sound Devices units also record on HD and CF (at the same time) and no one has reported any skips while carrying it around, which is it supposed to do as location recorder.

You mean the MR1 won't work that way?

This would be my biggest concern. Even in these summer reserved seated amphitheater shows I get bumped into quite a bit as there's always the people going back and forth to the beer line and pisser because they're just there for the $9 beers as opposed to the music.

I've never had any skips in any of my tapes due to this problem with my current setups.

[edtyre]

This would be my biggest concern. Even in these summer reserved seated amphitheater shows I get bumped into quite a bit as there's always the people going back and forth to the beer line and pisser because they're just there for the $9 beers as opposed to the music.

I've never had any skips in any of my tapes due to this problem with my current setups.

George

Let me be more clear....it skipped when some drunken wook slammed into me hard at a GA
show. And i had a similar problem in a festival setting where folks were all pushing and shoving
right in front of the stage. In a seated concert setting like you described, people walking past
and getting up and down at your seat, there is no problems.

[H₂O]

Who knows when we will have the abilty to play DSD files
or make DSD disks? (easily on my Mac with cheap or free software)

You can do this today:
 - Sony Playstation 3 can play DSD files natively (in DSF format I believe) - I would think off a hard disk as well as DVD-R - PS3 can send bitstream  over HDMI as well so you may be able to send DSD straight to a DSD compatible HDMI Reciever (i.e. high end Denon or Onkyo)
 - Sony also released a free plugin for Windows Media Player to play DSF files and convert them to PCM on the fly
 - Korg's Audiogate allows playback of DSD files on the MAC - not ideal but does work - you have to have a MR-1 or MR-1000 to install Audiogate though
 - FWIW - Sony also has a few VAIO PC's that have DSD sound cards
 

[page]

Most of the advice you'll receive here is "I own X and I like it,"
which is fine as far as it goes.  More valuable is advice that says,
"I tried X and Y and Z, and decided to keep X." 

I use Church mics (CA-11's and CA-14's) and a Church 9100 Preamp.

Talk to Chris, he's tried most of the small 24bit analog input recorders with the gear he makes.

[Church-Audio]

I'm very used to my iRiver h120 however I fear that it may have one foot in the grave.  I've been uneasy about making the leap into the 24bit world, mostly because it would mean leaving the good ol' days of my beloved iRiver.  Can anyone point out some key differences between some of the more popular (and inexpensive) 24bit recorders out there?  I'd like to keep it similar in size to my old h120 (cigarette pack size, give or take).  Most of my shows are indoor alternative rock shows however I mix it up with all sorts of different scenerios.  I use Church mics (CA-11's and CA-14's) and a Church 9100 Preamp.

Thanks in advance!

If you really want the best bang for the buck its really REALLY hard to beat the R-09HR.... really its a great recorder with the improved preamp + my preamp you will get some kick ass low noise floor recordings.. I love the H120 too its got a nice fat sound but the noise floor is nowhere near the R-09 even the old one kicks its ass. Trust me!

Chris

[travelinbeat]

That's the second solid endorsement for the r-09hr I've gotten from a very reliable source!  It looks like I'm approaching a conclusion here folks, any avid supporters of anything other than the r-09hr please deposit your opinions soon!

[pyiteac]

I have an MR-1 and it sounds fantastic.  I do not stealth shows and understand your needs.  I would not recommend the MR-1 for stealthing.  It's HDD is an issue.  Powering it is an issue.  The inputs are an issue. 

For open taping there is nothing better sounding than the MR-1/MR-1000.  For stealth taping there is better options.

[moooose]

how long do you get with the device + 4 AA's?

around 4 hours... more or less.

[sunjan]

---------------
Yamaha Pocketrak 2G
Yamaha Pocketrak CX (expected in August)
Sony MZ-RH1 and MZ-M200 HiMD
Marantz PMD620
M-Audio Microtrack 2496 (discontinued, external T mic)
M-Audio Microtrack II (external T mic)
Edirol R-09 (discontinued)
Zoom H2
Olympus LS-10 
Edirol R-09 HR
Tascam DR-1
Galaxy Audio HDR2
Zoom H4
Sony PCM-D50

Can anyone think of any I missed?

Hey Flintstone, I love your lists, T+!
Keep'em coming...

Just for the record, the HDR2 (aka Swissonic MDR-2 aka Dynasonic PDR-1) is 16bit only.

[H₂O]

FWIW - I switched from a SD 702 to a MR-1 because I think the MR-1 sounds as good as the SD 7xx series and possibly even better in DSD format.   I have an array of external pre-amps so I don't need nor prefer the sound of the SD 7xx series pre-amps to my pre-amps so it was not worth the extra money to me.

[stevetoney]

I'm not saying that I think the Korg is a bad unit, but as far as handheld units go, I personally see an internal harddrive as more of a  liability these days because a) it's a power hog compared to similar designed compact flash-based units, b) more moving parts usually means more that might go wrong.  (One fairly meaningless-to-this-thread point of reference is that the SD702 lasts 7 to 8 hours on a NPF975 battery, while the 722 lasts 4 to 5 hours.)

So, while I don't own an R-09HR, I do own a Marantz PMD-620.  It lasts almost 5 hours on 2 AAs and I'm currently writing to a 16GB SD card...but 32GB cards work as well.  If I were to do it over, I'd get the R-09HR (since they're out now, but weren't when I bought the 620) which is known to have a very low noise floor, although some people have told me that my 620 has the same guts as the R-09 (really don't know if that's true or not tho.)

Don't intend to diss any MR-1 owners...just trying to offer an opinion on why I didn't go with the Korg.

[flintstone]

"If I were to do it over, I'd get the R-09HR...which is known to have a very low noise floor..."

There are lots of reasons to purchase the R-09HR over the PMD620, but I don't think there's much difference in noise floor.  If you look at Guysonic's graphs you see that the two recorders have similar results.  The PMD620 even looks to have fewer digital spikes in the noise floor.   Both are acceptable for recording loud music.

Guysonic's graphs of the PMD620
http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,91816.msg1265738.html#msg1265738

Guysonic's review of the R-09HR
http://www.sonicstudios.com/r09hrrev.htm

Flintstone

[graemecogger]

There are lots of reasons to purchase the R-09HR over the PMD620...

If you don't mind me asking, what are some of those reasons?  I've been considering buying the PMD620 for my wife, as it seems really easy to use.  Cost in the UK is about the same between those 2.

[Carlos E. Martinez]

"If I were to do it over, I'd get the R-09HR...which is known to have a very low noise floor..."

There are lots of reasons to purchase the R-09HR over the PMD620, but I don't think there's much difference in noise floor.  If you look at Guysonic's graphs you see that the two recorders have similar results.  The PMD620 even looks to have fewer digital spikes in the noise floor.   Both are acceptable for recording loud music.

Guysonic's graphs of the PMD620
http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,91816.msg1265738.html#msg1265738

Guysonic's review of the R-09HR
http://www.sonicstudios.com/r09hrrev.htm

Flintstone

What about the noise on the line-in preamp? There are so many curves in Guysonic's graphs, that I am not quite sure which is the line's. Are there spikes on it too?

In my case I would always use a preamp/mixer to go in, so the internal mic preamp is not so interesting to me. Particularly not being balanced.

[stevetoney]

There are lots of reasons to purchase the R-09HR over the PMD620...

If you don't mind me asking, what are some of those reasons?  I've been considering buying the PMD620 for my wife, as it seems really easy to use.  Cost in the UK is about the same between those 2.

Funny...I came back to this thread to ask the same question because I'm curious and wondering if I should trade the 620 in on an R-09HR. 

In favor of the 620 is unlimited SD card size.  Apparently, the R-09HR is limited to 8GB.  Since I attend at least one festival a year, this is a consideration...it would be nice not having to worry about inventorying 4 or 5 tiny little 8GB SD cards.  On the plus side for the R-09HR is that it records up to 24/96 (the 620 only goes to 24/48), although that's irrelevant for me since I record at 24/48.  In terms of features, these are the obvious differences that I can see, so I'm hoping Flintstone that you can give a summary of the internals and why the R-09HR may be a better unit than the 620. 

Thanks!

[bgalizio]

There are lots of reasons to purchase the R-09HR over the PMD620...

If you don't mind me asking, what are some of those reasons?  I've been considering buying the PMD620 for my wife, as it seems really easy to use.  Cost in the UK is about the same between those 2.

Funny...I came back to this thread to ask the same question because I'm curious and wondering if I should trade the 620 in on an R-09HR. 

In favor of the 620 is unlimited SD card size.  Apparently, the R-09HR is limited to 8GB.  Since I attend at least one festival a year, this is a consideration...it would be nice not having to worry about inventorying 4 or 5 tiny little 8GB SD cards.  On the plus side for the R-09HR is that it records up to 24/96 (the 620 only goes to 24/48), although that's irrelevant for me since I record at 24/48.  In terms of features, these are the obvious differences that I can see, so I'm hoping Flintstone that you can give a summary of the internals and why the R-09HR may be a better unit than the 620. 

Thanks!

Nope, the R-09HR can use up to 32GB SDHC cards.

[Dede2002]

There are lots of reasons to purchase the R-09HR over the PMD620...

If you don't mind me asking, what are some of those reasons?  I've been considering buying the PMD620 for my wife, as it seems really easy to use.  Cost in the UK is about the same between those 2.

Funny...I came back to this thread to ask the same question because I'm curious and wondering if I should trade the 620 in on an R-09HR. 

In favor of the 620 is unlimited SD card size.  Apparently, the R-09HR is limited to 8GB.  Since I attend at least one festival a year, this is a consideration...it would be nice not having to worry about inventorying 4 or 5 tiny little 8GB SD cards.  On the plus side for the R-09HR is that it records up to 24/96 (the 620 only goes to 24/48), although that's irrelevant for me since I record at 24/48.  In terms of features, these are the obvious differences that I can see, so I'm hoping Flintstone that you can give a summary of the internals and why the R-09HR may be a better unit than the 620. 

Thanks!

Hi Tonedeaf,

How are you? Well, I'm not saying that you should trade your 620 for a R-09HR, but, to my ears, the 620 doesn't even come close to the old R09 in sound quality. I know because I own both. No electronic info here, just what my ears says. That being said, the R-09HR sounds better than the R09. I bought my 620 like 6 months ago (regrets )
Please understand: I'm not saying bad things about your gear. I'm criticizing my own gear and purchase decisions 

[travelinbeat]

It's definitely sounding like the R-09HR is the answer to this thread's question

[stevetoney]

That being said, the R-09HR sounds better than the R09. I bought my 620 like 6 months ago (regrets )
Please understand: I'm not saying bad things about your gear. I'm criticizing my own gear and purchase decisions 

Don't worry about it.  I'm living with my decisions.  I made that decision when the R-09HR wasn't available and I had owned an R-09 before, but I was kinda pissed at Edirol for a) putting out a product that had the lousy line in jack and b) my own R-09 was nearly freaking impossible to get batteries in and out of.  I know most people said that they didn't have problem with that STOOOOOPID battery design and I would agree _IF_ the battery compartment slid nice and freely.  But the one I had was sticky as all hell and it made it a MAJOR PITA to get batteries in and out of.  In fact, I felt as if I was literally forcing plastic in order to get the thing open and I just knew that at some point in time that I was gonna break something just getting the battery compartment open and closed.  So, for me that was THE major design flaw of the R-09.

Anyway, the 620 does serve my purposes as a bitbox though so I'm not sorry with my decision, but I'd still probably rather have the R-09HR if I had my druthers right now.

[stevetoney]

Nope, the R-09HR can use up to 32GB SDHC cards.

Thanks for the info Ben.  I was on a specific dealers website that said it only took up to 8GB...although I don't remember offhand which site it was!

[Sunday Driver]

Well, the unit has been mentioned already, but all I can say is that I am very satisfied with my Edirol R-09HR. I used to use an iRiver iHP 120 and the R-09HR is definitely an upgrade in terms of sound quality recording in 24 bit. It's good for undercover missions. However, there are flashing red LEDs that flash on the top and front side of the unit that can be "limited" but never (as far as I know) completely shut off. It is fussy with SDHC cards...it "corrupted" my 8gb Transcend card while formatting inside the unit.

[Dede2002]

Well, the unit has been mentioned already, but all I can say is that I am very satisfied with my Edirol R-09HR. I used to use an iRiver iHP 120 and the R-09HR is definitely an upgrade in terms of sound quality recording in 24 bit. It's good for undercover missions. However, there are flashing red LEDs that flash on the top and front side of the unit that can be "limited" but never (as far as I know) completely shut off. It is fussy with SDHC cards...it "corrupted" my 8gb Transcend card while formatting inside the unit.

Same thing happened to me. Moved to Kingston and never had problems again, ever.
The red lights you mentioned are, I suppose, the Peak light, the Remote Control and the Rec on/off.
The Peak light can be shutt off (using Menu). The remote control light can be covered with a tinny black adhesive tape. Nothing you can do with the other one 

[Sunday Driver]

Well, the unit has been mentioned already, but all I can say is that I am very satisfied with my Edirol R-09HR. I used to use an iRiver iHP 120 and the R-09HR is definitely an upgrade in terms of sound quality recording in 24 bit. It's good for undercover missions. However, there are flashing red LEDs that flash on the top and front side of the unit that can be "limited" but never (as far as I know) completely shut off. It is fussy with SDHC cards...it "corrupted" my 8gb Transcend card while formatting inside the unit.

Same thing happened to me. Moved to Kingston and never had problems again, ever.
The red lights you mentioned are, I suppose, the Peak light, the Remote Control and the Rec on/off.
The Peak light can be shutt off (using Menu). The remote control light can be covered with a tinny black adhesive tape. Nothing you can do with the other one 

I came here to post about the R-09HR and learned something else. Thanks for that. Reading reviews it seems that Kingston SDHC cards are more reliable than the Transcend cards. I have the peak light off and yes...that's what I meant. 

[Dede2002]

Well, the unit has been mentioned already, but all I can say is that I am very satisfied with my Edirol R-09HR. I used to use an iRiver iHP 120 and the R-09HR is definitely an upgrade in terms of sound quality recording in 24 bit. It's good for undercover missions. However, there are flashing red LEDs that flash on the top and front side of the unit that can be "limited" but never (as far as I know) completely shut off. It is fussy with SDHC cards...it "corrupted" my 8gb Transcend card while formatting inside the unit.

Same thing happened to me. Moved to Kingston and never had problems again, ever.
The red lights you mentioned are, I suppose, the Peak light, the Remote Control and the Rec on/off.
The Peak light can be shutt off (using Menu). The remote control light can be covered with a tinny black adhesive tape. Nothing you can do with the other one 

I came here to post about the R-09HR and learned something else. Thanks for that. Reading reviews it seems that Kingston SDHC cards are more reliable than the Transcend cards. I have the peak light off and yes...that's what I meant. 

No problem, you're welcome 

[Nick's Picks]

You can do this today:
 - Sony Playstation 3 can play DSD files natively (in DSF format I believe) - I would think off a hard disk as well as DVD-R - PS3 can send bitstream  over HDMI as well so you may be able to send DSD straight to a DSD compatible HDMI Reciever (i.e. high end Denon or Onkyo)
 - Sony also released a free plugin for Windows Media Player to play DSF files and convert them to PCM on the fly
 - Korg's Audiogate allows playback of DSD files on the MAC - not ideal but does work - you have to have a MR-1 or MR-1000 to install Audiogate though
 - FWIW - Sony also has a few VAIO PC's that have DSD sound cards
 

having looked into this, I believe its not straight DSD/DSF conversion.  the Sony plugin converts the signal to PCM.

any way...
I've owned the R9, MicroTrack and have played w/a few others.  the Korg MR1 sounds better.  hands down.  battery life is the *ony* drawback.
I master in DSD > audiogate the masters down to redbook and am *very happy*.

[surf1div1]

Great thread Travelinbeat- I have the R-09HR after coming off the PD-Audio format the last 4 years. For the size, and the fact that it's a Hi Rez recorder, I'm quite happy. I primarily stealth my shows, and the sound is quite nice. I've tried comparing it to my PD-Audio which was exception for a HD Recorder, but unfortunately ran into stability issues the result of the manufacture. After going through those trials and tribulations I discovered this site and studied long and hard what to get in the future and have been quite happy with this form factor. I also considered the form factor of the Korg unit for it's size but with the price (without any mention of rebates) went with the R-09HR.  Sound quality is great as far as what I can tell- I don't have the software that would analyze it (Harbal?) for the quality, but some on this board have and found that it is great. It's still new as  far as field use goes so, in time, others may bear out what I purchased in terms of it being a great recorder. The other thing I like about this unit is that I can split the file on the fly, plus the remote capability. It's a frikin tiny remote and for stealth recordings it makes the options even better. While some don't care for that option for fear of something going wrong, I think for my application, it's a win- win. I can have the recorder in my fanny pack and not have to pull the unit out to adjust anything (like I did previously) and if your into stealth recording, this is a desirable feature for me. I go to a specific venue where they monitor heavily for recording and if there's any type of lighting etc they have literally pulled the unit from your hands. I speak from experience here ;-). I've ordered the Church Ugly Preamp for those shows that are quite and may not use it that often (since the shows I go to are relatively loud enough) but after coming from a digital pre I'm more comfortable having it and not using it then not having it and needing it. The unit works well without a pre with the battery box I had for the mics. My battery box though also has problems and as a result went with Church on their minature BB so that I can be even more low pro. Anyway, I'm sure that with all the feedback that this thread will give you  in time you'll find a unit that will work.

That's the second solid endorsement for the r-09hr I've gotten from a very reliable source!  It looks like I'm approaching a conclusion here folks, any avid supporters of anything other than the r-09hr please deposit your opinions soon!

[H₂O]

having looked into this, I believe its not straight DSD/DSF conversion.  the Sony plugin converts the signal to PCM.

This is true for Windows Media Player,  but the PS3 may be able to stream DSD/DSF w/o PCM conversion via HDMI - using Bitstream over HDMI with recent firmware releases - don't know for sure as I have yet to try.

The Sony Audio software that comes with the handful of it's Viao DSD enables PC's allows direct DSD to Analog conversion using it's semi -proprietary Crystal Audio chip and drivers.

[aaronji]

Another possibility for a small 24-bit recorder is one of the Oade modified PMD620s, particularly the concert mod (http://www.oade.com/digital_recorders/hard_disc_recorders/PMD-620MODS.html).  This mod features significant upgrades to both the mic- and line-in signal paths.  Doug Oade mentioned in an e-mail to me that "The Op Amp in the Concert MOD is chosen to be as fast as possible with the lowest distortion possible...The Concert chip has a noise spec of less than 1/2 that of the stock chip."

Couple this with the small size and ease of use of the PMD620, and this might be a good option for the OP's intended use.  The deck can easily be operated with one hand and without looking at the buttons...

Potential drawbacks compared to some of the other recorders mentioned in this thread are price ($499.00 shipped) and lack of internal mics.

[H₂O]

I master in DSD > audiogate the masters down to redbook and am *very happy*.

I have to agree - with Audio gate you don't have to resample and dither, you convert from DSD to 16/44.1 or 24/192 or what ever (converting to sample rates based on 44.1 vs 48 (i.e. 88.2 vs 96) are prefered as the formula to convert to 48 is more complex - from what I have read).

So you can convert with Audio gate and track with CD-Wav and your done - as long as no other mastering is required.

The results are great.

[pyiteac]

I have an MR-1 and am very happy with it.  I have had the opportunity to run a comp with it and a 744 last year at Charleston WSP.  Sound wise they both sound very similar.  The 744 is a little softer(not volume) sounding.  It has a "rounder" more analogue sound to it.  The MR-1 has more detail.  It is a more up front sound.  I prefer the sound of the MR-1.  There are things the MR-1 records that will amaze you.  It's an "oh, My" box.  HDD or not.  It's a winner

FYI:
Comp info:  F.O.B. Schoeps MK4>KC5>CMC6xt>E.A.A. PSP-2>xlr>Sound Devices 744t
                                                                                   >1/8" mini>Korg MR-1

[fp]

Another possibility for a small 24-bit recorder is one of the Oade modified PMD620s, particularly the concert mod (http://www.oade.com/digital_recorders/hard_disc_recorders/PMD-620MODS.html).  This mod features significant upgrades to both the mic- and line-in signal paths.  Doug Oade mentioned in an e-mail to me that "The Op Amp in the Concert MOD is chosen to be as fast as possible with the lowest distortion possible...The Concert chip has a noise spec of less than 1/2 that of the stock chip."

Too bad that they can't ship this outside the US ....

[darktrain]

I really like the Marantz PMD620 also, i have a stock unit and use the HLSC-1's(4.7k mod) straight into the mic in with very nice results and no issues with clipping at all, in fact i recorded Testament in a small venue last week which was extremely loud and it turned out rather nicely as have all the recordings that way(done the mic in thing 4 times now), the unit provides 5v of phantom power which is plenty to power plug in mics so i really see no reason for having a battery box in loud concert situations which makes that setup very small indeed, i only have need for a preamp when its a quieter or acoustic type show.

[rastasean]

http://cnet.nytimes.com/voice-recorders/korg-mr-1/4505-11314_7-32563619.html

This guy really tells you how he feels about the MR-1. (hint: he doesn't really like it)

[Carlos E. Martinez]

http://cnet.nytimes.com/voice-recorders/korg-mr-1/4505-11314_7-32563619.html

This guy really tells you how he feels about the MR-1. (hint: he doesn't really like it)

Any idea which was or is his favourite?

[rastasean]

Not really. He really didn't like the price of it, which at the time it was expensive, or the mic that came with it, or the hard drive in it, or the battery life.
Probably likes something like the H2