Topic: Sound Devices 702 vs 722 question

[JGP]

I plan on getting either a 702 or 722.  I have done a bunch of searches on the merits of both recorders.  I understand that the 702 uses less power.  The 722 allows recording to hard drive and CF simultaneously and with the hard drive, has larger storage capacity.  But with 32gb CF cards super cheap, and with no strong leaning towards recording to a hard drive and compact flash simultaneously, I wonder if there are other advantages of the 722.  My understanding is that sonically, they are identical.  Is this correct?  Is there any evidence to suggest they have different sound qualities?  Are there other advantages to a 722 that I am overlooking?

All advice is appreciated for this long time taper about to make the jump from DAT
Thanks

[manitouman]

I was in the same position you are now...I just couldn't justify paying $600 more for just an internal hard drive. At the time I got a 32 GB CF card for around $100, I'm betting they are even cheaper now. Save the extra $500 for more gear! Or even a bag for your new SD 702 recorder. You'll need a nice bag to protect your investment.

Good luck whichever you pick, and no, there is no difference in recording quality.

[J.T.L]

Save the extra $500 for more gear!

[MattD]

On the contrary, buy my 722 in the yard sale! You'll roughly split the difference on the price between the two and the hard drive space is nice to have if you don't transfer shows quickly or don't want to buy several flash cards.

[CQBert]

Don't forget battery consumption... it takes a lot more juice to run the Hard Drive than it does to write to a solid state CF Card...

CF also does not really care if it gets bumped around a little..

My 2 Cents..

CQBert

[Red Boink]

cf way over hd

[JackHenry]

I use my 702 for nature recording. For what it's worth, the CF card is much more shock resistant. The HDD may add some noise to the recording if you need a real quiet device. Also, less heat is generated with the 702 due to lack of the drive. And as pointed out already, less power consumption. I was making the same decision a year ago as you are now, and I don't regret choosing the 702 one bit. I've NEVER run out of space on the card. (Even though I do carry a spare)

[oleg]

the power consumption is almost the same if you write only to 1 media on 722 ( cf only)
but as almost every one say  you can go with 702  and if you need additional storage hook external hdd via fire wire   ( you will need to supply 12 v from outside as usually  it wouldn't  work with internal  7.4v batteries)
G drive have very good ones .
battery4broadcast  have 60 w  for 100 bucks
Internal compact flash media existing up to 64 gb ( peretec)  with announced 100gb which still didn't come .
the cheapest way might be the transident 133 32 gb which are about 70 usd , i run a few like these

[ghellquist]

Yes. Simply restating what has been said.

Exactly same sound, no differences.
Running 722 towards CF only gives just about same power draw as a 702. When not used the internal disc spins down and stops using power.
There is no way to update a 702 to a 722.
When the disc spins inside the 722 you can barely hear it putting your ear towards the box. Not an issue.
The 7xx machine can write to an external hard disc if you want to. It has to have its own power supply though. (Conclusion, only at home base, not on location).
CF cards nowadays are large, abundant, cheap and reliable. Not so a few years ago. This has changed the criteria for decisions a bit. I own a 722. Would probably go for a 702 today.

// Gunnar

[Petrus]

I was doing a live concert just a few weeks ago. CF (8 GB Sandisk, the best) had write failure, about 20 seconds missing, as the machine was configured to keep on going and it started a new file on the card.

Me happy: I had a 722 writing to HD, perfect file there...

If you want to be double sefe with SD702, you need to run an external HDD from firewire, which means mains power. Forget portability.

You pays your (little) money, you takes your chances...

[T.C.]

A couple things to consider:

(+) the 722 can be retrofitted with a solid state disk, which would obviate most or any concerns about heat and current draw. There's even an illustrated step-by-step tutorial on Sound Devices' web site that teaches you how to replace the hard disk yourself.

(-) the 722 currently accepts only PATA drives, which are increasingly hard to source.

(*) I understand the 7 recorders can't provide the 12V that some external Firewire harddisks want to see (hence the need for an A/C adaptor), but it might/will work with harddisks that have both a Firewire and a USB interface, since these would have to be able to run on USB (= 5V) as well. I may be wrong, so you'd better verify this with an independent source.

[JGP]

I was doing a live concert just a few weeks ago. CF (8 GB Sandisk, the best) had write failure, about 20 seconds missing, as the machine was configured to keep on going and it started a new file on the card.

Thanks everyone for all the comments.  Im curious about how often these types of things happen.  There are not many complaints of either CF failure or hard drive failure on TS, unless I missed them.  Any other comments on problems with CF or HD?

[oleg]

IIf you want to be double sefe with SD702, you need to run an external HDD from firewire, which means mains power. Forget portability.

You pays your (little) money, you takes your chances...

have nothing with portability , you can place hard drive which is not more then my Rothmans  international pack   and the external lithium ion  is what usually normal people use on location for long run , not really take much space .
for doable recording you can use external fire wire card reader/writer which would work even with internal battery .

[Petrus]

YES, CF card reader to Firewire. I was only thinking a FW HDD which needs AC or one huge battery to run. My bad.

But not as bad as the post where the poster forgot that the CF card can be plucked out of the 702 and read to PC with any card reader (was complaining about the "required" FW connection between 702 and PC to transfer files...).

About glitches, I have had 722 for 2 years and this was the first time there was a write failure. I do get them every now and then with cameras, though.

[boojum]

Redundancy -  Yes.  Regardess of the cheapness of CF cards now, it is soooo comforting to be recording to two media in a critical session.  Much better to lose one recording and have the other than to have to explain to someone about how the recorder made a mistake.  That is never fun.  When I need to have that recording, regardless, I always record CF and HD.  It is a good idea.  If you can deal with the occasional write failure, and I suppose it is very occasional, just the CF will suffice.

[Petrus]

I love the redundant backup of the 722.
I've never realized a difference in file size (denoting dropped data) between the cf and hdd; but I usually use the hdd files for archive (out of habit, nothing else).

My SD722 is configured to recover from write failures, not stop, so the HD file was perfect, CF files were named T114 and T114A and about 20 seconds were missing between them.

[Dave Ferris]

Hi-

Brand new here. I'm looking at the 722 to record my 2005 NY Steinway D concert grand and my vocal.
I would probably go with mics like the industry standard AKG 414 and perhaps a Royer ribbon mic like a 121/122.

I'm a pro jazz musician/pianist/vocalist who is intimidated by computer recording. I understand the SD recorders have for the best pres available, head and shoulders above the Marantz 671 and the new 661 and just about everything else. So one question would be------Am I going to be satisfied with the quality of the recording using these mics has compared to getting an entry level iMac and a good interface?

One drag for me on SD 722 is that I can't overdub vocals after putting down the piano track, where on the computer that wouldn't be the case.

I wouldn't necessarily be taking this in the field, mostly staying in my studio. I know  part of the steep price tag is the rugged build quality for the field , so I guess I'm trying to figure out if this is a good way to go.

I've been speaking with Nick in support over at SD, he's very helpful answering all my lame questions. I saw this thread and wondered if anyone might use these particular recorders for similar applications.

Thanks for any advice.

[Petrus]

As much as I like my SD722 it sounds like another solution would be better for you: if you are mostly staying in the studio and need overdubs. You have to have a DAW anyhow, why not bite the bullet and get Prism Orpheus: 8 channels of great quality AD/DA, 4 very good micpres, FireWire to PC/Mac. Does not even cost much more than SD722. I am thinking about getting one to function as my main rig with a laptop and using SD722 as backup.

There are other cheaper and perfectly passable 8 track AD/DA units, like Motu Traveller, but what I have been able to gather the Prism Orpheus is The Thing at the moment, even better than Prism's higher end studio units. There is a waiting list for them, though, the Brittish supplier I was talking to had one unit free, other 3 he had been able to source were bought by Elton John... Price was 2800€, about 300 more than what I had to pay for my SD722 (Finnish hi-tax price...).

[Dave Ferris]

Thanks Petrus for the reply.

Regarding that Prism Orpheus it looks like I could buy 2 SD 722s, they appear to be selling at 5K.

Right now I don't have a dedicated computer in my detached studio/piano room, just an older PC in my house. Like I said earlier, I'm a computer idiot when it comes down to recording and I'm not sure I want to hassle with learning how to function on it. I spend a lot of time at the piano practicing. The overdubbing is an issue, perhaps. I 'm not really into the typical Midi/sequence thing that most keyboard guys do. I'm more of an Acoustic/Jazz/classical guy, so with vocals I could just track all at once--it would just be piano and voice. I know the bleed is an issue that I would have to deal with though.

The SD 722 seemed like a good way to go because of the mic pres. I'd get more out of those mics hopefully.

Right now I'm just fishing around for opinions and suggestions trying to figure the best route to take with this.

Thanks again.

[Justinasia]

I wouldn't necessarily be taking this in the field, mostly staying in my studio. I know  part of the steep price tag is the rugged build quality for the field , so I guess I'm trying to figure out if this is a good way to go.

I've very new to all this, so my advice is to be taken as amateur, but maybe the guys here can say what they think of it:
If you don't need the durability of the SD 722, you could save money by getting the Fostex fr-2le. People say it is professional in terms of sound quality. Also Doug Oade does mods on it to make it better, if you buy from him:
http://www.oade.com/digital_recorders/hard_disc_recorders/FR-2LE_upgrades.html

I'm not affiliate of Doug's, but have heard a lot of good things about him and about this unit since I have been also researching what to get myself.

If you don't want to work with the computer, should it not be possible to record the first track, then listen to that with your headphones while making the second track, playing with a separate player such as a ipod or stereo or something, while recording the second track (on the Fostex or SD 722)? Then fit the two together on a computer later, or ask someone else to do that even?

I would be interested to hear the answer to this as I was actually thinking of doing the same myself. I thought the only trouble might be to get the 2 separate recordings in time once on the computer. I thought to record a metronome on the beginning (extra space) of the first track, then on the beginning of the second track I could tap in time with the metronome (listened from the first track), so they could be later synched. Is this too rustic? Or are there better techniques for this?

[Mike R.]

Justin,

In general you can't count on precise synchronization between two devices unless there is some mechanism to link their clock rates together.  The problem is that the sample or playback rates are not exact.

What should be good enough is to play your beat track (recorded metronome or whatever) through the iPod and then record your multiple tracks on your recorder. (the same recorder for each).  They should sync acceptably well.  You could also use a blinking (or some other no-sound) metronome to keep your beat.

This sort is sync is probably not necessary for a voice-over type of application that Dave Ferris asked (but it might be!), but it usually is necessary for multi-track music.

Some pro devices have the ability to take an external clock signal, or produce one.  This sort of sync is one of the reasons they do that.

[JackHenry]

I'm reasonably sure that if an external HDD is Firewire 800, that it can be powered directly from the 702. Firewire 400 can't.

[notlance]

The 702 does not have FW800, as your post seems to imply.  I am able to power my FW400 external hard drive from my 702.  In fact, the 702 will power the drive from internal battery power only, even though SD says you can't (or perhaps shouldn't) do it.  Running the 702 + EHDD off the internal battery does suck the battery down pretty fast, though.

[Dave Ferris]

After talking with more of my studio friends, the SD 722 probably isn't the best way to go for me.

I think an iMac with the Apogee interface, Logic and a pair of the AKG 414s might be better (although I know it's more $$ to invest in) for my purposes. Like I said, this is for my studio only, not the field.

Thanks for your responses though.