Topic: the new 722 (the 702)

[chun]

My GF lives in Brooklyn.  I'll meet up at a show and give it a shot with ya.

I have a 744.

I removed the 40 GB drive and threw in a 100 GB 5400 RPM w/ power conditioning the drives uses a 4400 RPM amount of power.

Working like a champ and now I have 25+ hours of 4 chan 24/96 time......

[mmedley.]

I would imagine the size is the same. I seriously doubt they would re-engineer and have all new parts manufactured just to remove a HD and use CF only. I personally find no benefit to this since you will spend more on multiple CFs and have to keep track of them. I am eventually going to throw in a 100gig drive as well, but right now not at the top of my priority list since I have yet to even fill the stock drive halfway and my festy days are numbered.

I really wish I could still go to the NAB shows. They were a blast!

[spyder9]

doesn't seem to make much sense, the HD is such a good option to have.  You can transfer you CF to it, use it for longer uses.  No brainer. 

Now if they'd just make a 722 to with a 5 pin binder plug for my KCY cable, i'd be the happiest tapir..

The thing to remember here guys is that I'm betting the majority of people using 722/744 aren't recording music with them, they are doing sound for film/video. Maybe I'm wrong, but I straddle both worlds, and I'm betting that's the case. For that type of work, the recording time isn't nearly an issue, and being flash-only might make the unit more bombproof while doing boompole work. And more importantly, I think they said there would be a 702T model which would have timecode. If that is true, it just goes to show who is really using these things. Jam-sync'able SMTPE timecode is a HUGE feature for people doing film/video work. Did the 722 have SMTPE timecode? If not, that feature alone is a MASSIVE UPGRADE for certain users, and well worth the money. Anyway, I thought I'd just share another perspective on this.

I think a 702T would be a dud.  The Tascam HD-P2 has SMPTE timecode and retails for $989.00, $1,000 less than a possible 702T.  Perfect audio quality is not the a big thing for video guys.     

[BayTaynt3d]

One more point... There are actually opportunities to use timcode in the taper realm too. Could you imagine a group of 4-5 tapers all jam-syncing their units at the start of a show -- you take the right flank, I'll take the left flank, you take FOB, someone else take stage lip, you run hypers, I'll run omnis, etc. Ah man, the post-matrix possibilities would be AWESOME!!!

I just got my 744T in the last few days, and have barely had time to examine what's different over my 722.  If I understand what you're saying, we could take a pair of time-code enabled recorders like the 744T, jam-sync them before the show, and then run our rigs while not connected by any cabling and keep in time?  If that's the case, that's freakin' cool!

Any time-code enabled tapers in NYC care to experiment at some point?

- Jason

I have never personally used one but I believe the 744T can send and receive timecode and can be jammed to each other and other devices like a timecode slate. Sometimes, the units can only jam TO a timecode generator, but I think the 744 can actually output timecode itself. There are many different ways to do it, including some that require the boxes to be physically daisy-chained. However, with the 744T, I think you can do soemthing like this (you need a special cord to go in the timecode port):

1. Set one 744T into "Free Run Timcode" mode
2. Then jam sync the second (or third or fourth, etc.) 744T to the first one by using "Free Run Jam Once"
3. Make sure you are using the same "frame rate" (doesn't really matter unless you are syncing to video, just make sure everyone is using same rate)
4. Make sure you are using the same format (i.e., 24/96)

Then in post, you'll need an editor that can read the timecode in the header, you can use the timecode to sync the two recordings, and they shouldn't drift very much at all (but the longer in a single record, the more likely you'll see some drift, but the 744T has crystal to keep sync).

Like I said before, I'm not sure about the 744T in particular, but I believe this would be doable with those units.

[BayTaynt3d]

doesn't seem to make much sense, the HD is such a good option to have.  You can transfer you CF to it, use it for longer uses.  No brainer. 

Now if they'd just make a 722 to with a 5 pin binder plug for my KCY cable, i'd be the happiest tapir..

The thing to remember here guys is that I'm betting the majority of people using 722/744 aren't recording music with them, they are doing sound for film/video. Maybe I'm wrong, but I straddle both worlds, and I'm betting that's the case. For that type of work, the recording time isn't nearly an issue, and being flash-only might make the unit more bombproof while doing boompole work. And more importantly, I think they said there would be a 702T model which would have timecode. If that is true, it just goes to show who is really using these things. Jam-sync'able SMTPE timecode is a HUGE feature for people doing film/video work. Did the 722 have SMTPE timecode? If not, that feature alone is a MASSIVE UPGRADE for certain users, and well worth the money. Anyway, I thought I'd just share another perspective on this.

I think a 702T would be a dud.  The Tascam HD-P2 has SMPTE timecode and retails for $989.00, $1,000 less than a possible 702T.  Perfect audio quality is not the a big thing for video guys.     

Not 100% sure of this, but I'll bet good money the HD-P2 only takes INCOMING timecode and can't generate it's own, which means you can't sync it with anything unless you have a TC generator. Worse yet, I think that unit can't be jam-synced and untethered in free run mode, which means it always has to be connected to the TC generator (does it have a crystal?). Not sure of that last part, but those are two big downsides with respect to TC if they are true. And your comment about quality for video guys is laughable, maybe in the amateur ranks, but in the pro film/video world they'd get a real kick out of that. My guess is the fact that some of these units EVEN EXIST (for your AUD pleasures) is because of the audio for film/video/ambient side of things in field location recording.

[Sanjay]

I realize the main use is video, I figured that it might be in demand for that too, you've got two MK41 mics on a boompole, run with actives less stuff.  Just a thought.

[ianstone]

doesn't seem to make much sense, the HD is such a good option to have.  You can transfer you CF to it, use it for longer uses.  No brainer. 

Now if they'd just make a 722 to with a 5 pin binder plug for my KCY cable, i'd be the happiest tapir..

The thing to remember here guys is that I'm betting the majority of people using 722/744 aren't recording music with them, they are doing sound for film/video. Maybe I'm wrong, but I straddle both worlds, and I'm betting that's the case. For that type of work, the recording time isn't nearly an issue, and being flash-only might make the unit more bombproof while doing boompole work. And more importantly, I think they said there would be a 702T model which would have timecode. If that is true, it just goes to show who is really using these things. Jam-sync'able SMTPE timecode is a HUGE feature for people doing film/video work. Did the 722 have SMTPE timecode? If not, that feature alone is a MASSIVE UPGRADE for certain users, and well worth the money. Anyway, I thought I'd just share another perspective on this.

I think a 702T would be a dud.  The Tascam HD-P2 has SMPTE timecode and retails for $989.00, $1,000 less than a possible 702T.  Perfect audio quality is not the a big thing for video guys.     

also - to play devils advocate here...

does the tascam have phantom power/preamp?

[wbrisette]

However, with the 744T, I think you can do something like this (you need a special cord to go in the timecode port):

This would be the only drawback, folks would need to run a cable to all their positions to jam the TC.

The only other thing I'll add to the great info that is being shared here, is that just because you have more mics in the air doesn't mean you'll end up with a better recording. It's still all about positioning, mics & preamps, and all the other things we take for granted. The only thing the TC will do is help you in post. Layering 4 or 5 sets of mics on top of each other won't necessarily get you that top notch recording.

Wayne

[spyder9]

doesn't seem to make much sense, the HD is such a good option to have.  You can transfer you CF to it, use it for longer uses.  No brainer. 

Now if they'd just make a 722 to with a 5 pin binder plug for my KCY cable, i'd be the happiest tapir..

The thing to remember here guys is that I'm betting the majority of people using 722/744 aren't recording music with them, they are doing sound for film/video. Maybe I'm wrong, but I straddle both worlds, and I'm betting that's the case. For that type of work, the recording time isn't nearly an issue, and being flash-only might make the unit more bombproof while doing boompole work. And more importantly, I think they said there would be a 702T model which would have timecode. If that is true, it just goes to show who is really using these things. Jam-sync'able SMTPE timecode is a HUGE feature for people doing film/video work. Did the 722 have SMTPE timecode? If not, that feature alone is a MASSIVE UPGRADE for certain users, and well worth the money. Anyway, I thought I'd just share another perspective on this.

I think a 702T would be a dud.  The Tascam HD-P2 has SMPTE timecode and retails for $989.00, $1,000 less than a possible 702T.  Perfect audio quality is not the a big thing for video guys.     

also - to play devils advocate here...

does the tascam have phantom power/preamp?

yes.

[spyder9]

doesn't seem to make much sense, the HD is such a good option to have.  You can transfer you CF to it, use it for longer uses.  No brainer. 

Now if they'd just make a 722 to with a 5 pin binder plug for my KCY cable, i'd be the happiest tapir..

The thing to remember here guys is that I'm betting the majority of people using 722/744 aren't recording music with them, they are doing sound for film/video. Maybe I'm wrong, but I straddle both worlds, and I'm betting that's the case. For that type of work, the recording time isn't nearly an issue, and being flash-only might make the unit more bombproof while doing boompole work. And more importantly, I think they said there would be a 702T model which would have timecode. If that is true, it just goes to show who is really using these things. Jam-sync'able SMTPE timecode is a HUGE feature for people doing film/video work. Did the 722 have SMTPE timecode? If not, that feature alone is a MASSIVE UPGRADE for certain users, and well worth the money. Anyway, I thought I'd just share another perspective on this.

I think a 702T would be a dud.  The Tascam HD-P2 has SMPTE timecode and retails for $989.00, $1,000 less than a possible 702T.  Perfect audio quality is not the a big thing for video guys.     

Not 100% sure of this, but I'll bet good money the HD-P2 only takes INCOMING timecode and can't generate it's own, which means you can't sync it with anything unless you have a TC generator. Worse yet, I think that unit can't be jam-synced and untethered in free run mode, which means it always has to be connected to the TC generator (does it have a crystal?). Not sure of that last part, but those are two big downsides with respect to TC if they are true. And your comment about quality for video guys is laughable, maybe in the amateur ranks, but in the pro film/video world they'd get a real kick out of that. My guess is the fact that some of these units EVEN EXIST (for your AUD pleasures) is because of the audio for film/video/ambient side of things in field location recording.

agreed on the incoming.  But if the 702T can generate its own timecode, it would be safe to assume that this unit would have a price higher than a regular 722.

agreed on pro film/video guys.  But there are alot of amateur film/video guys.  A lot.  If their marketing plan is strictly the Pro field, then that narrows the competition, and creates their own niche.  Just like the 722 did and reflects in their build quality and asking price.  The price go towards paying R&D and get the most $ out of their smaller consumer group.  Tascam's marketing plan was to the masses.  That was my main point on the 702T being a dud.  Masses.

[BayTaynt3d]

However, with the 744T, I think you can do something like this (you need a special cord to go in the timecode port):

This would be the only drawback, folks would need to run a cable to all their positions to jam the TC.

The only other thing I'll add to the great info that is being shared here, is that just because you have more mics in the air doesn't mean you'll end up with a better recording. It's still all about positioning, mics & preamps, and all the other things we take for granted. The only thing the TC will do is help you in post. Layering 4 or 5 sets of mics on top of each other won't necessarily get you that top notch recording.

Wayne

Nope, you've got that WRONG. That's what jam-syncing does. You link up the two 744t's together, jam-sync them, then disconnect them, and if they are in FREE RUN mode they will continue to be in-sync for long-periods of time WITHOUT being connected to each other at all. That's the whole point of jam-sync. Again, I'm not claiming this can be done specifically with the 744T, but it can be with loads of other gear, and it is my understanding that it is totally possible to jam-sync multiple 744t's together in FREE RUN mode. You only jam-sync once, then disconnect. (There are other ways, which involves a constant physical connection, but that's not what I'm talking about -- check your manuals for FREE RUN JAM ONCE or something like that).

And, I totally agree about more mics does not equal better sound. BUT, if you were strategic about it, you could get way more COVERAGE (video term again, LOL!). How many times have you recorded AUD and then later wished you used a different set of mics or were in a different location? Plenty I bet. Well, get four guys to jam sync and then try four different things -- different locations and different mics and different stereo configs. Then in post, maybe you only use one source, maybe you mix two, maybe they all suck. But you have options that you wouldn't have had otherwise, and thus more coverage.

Also, this is more than just being about syncing multiple sources, this is about STAYING IN SYNC TOO (aka drift)! Those 744T's have high-end crystals in them people, and once in free run mode locked to a certain frame rate, the odds are WAY BETTER you'll stay in sync over time. In fact that is the main benefit, anyone can sync up the start of the show, it's KEEPING SYNC at high quality without having to stretch that is the benefit of jam-sync.

[jpschust]

However, with the 744T, I think you can do something like this (you need a special cord to go in the timecode port):

This would be the only drawback, folks would need to run a cable to all their positions to jam the TC.

The only other thing I'll add to the great info that is being shared here, is that just because you have more mics in the air doesn't mean you'll end up with a better recording. It's still all about positioning, mics & preamps, and all the other things we take for granted. The only thing the TC will do is help you in post. Layering 4 or 5 sets of mics on top of each other won't necessarily get you that top notch recording.

Wayne

Nope, you've got that WRONG. That's what jam-syncing does. You link up the two 744t's together, jam-sync them, then disconnect them, and if they are in FREE RUN mode they will continue to be in-sync for long-periods of time WITHOUT being connected to each other at all. That's the whole point of jam-sync. Again, I'm not claiming this can be done specifically with the 744T, but it can be with loads of other gear, and it is my understanding that it is totally possible to jam-sync multiple 744t's together in FREE RUN mode. You only jam-sync once, then disconnect. (There are other ways, which involves a constant physical connection, but that's not what I'm talking about -- check your manuals for FREE RUN JAM ONCE or something like that).

And, I totally agree about more mics does not equal better sound. BUT, if you were strategic about it, you could get way more COVERAGE (video term again, LOL!). How many times have you recorded AUD and then later wished you used a different set of mics or were in a different location? Plenty I bet. Well, get four guys to jam sync and then try four different things -- different locations and different mics and different stereo configs. Then in post, maybe you only use one source, maybe you mix two, maybe they all suck. But you have options that you wouldn't have had otherwise, and thus more coverage.

Also, this is more than just being about syncing multiple sources, this is about STAYING IN SYNC TOO (aka drift)! Those 744T's have high-end crystals in them people, and once in free run mode locked to a certain frame rate, the odds are WAY BETTER you'll stay in sync over time. In fact that is the main benefit, anyone can sync up the start of the show, it's KEEPING SYNC at high quality without having to stretch that is the benefit of jam-sync.

ok so it's certainly convenient to be able to start both and have them synced from the get go, but with stable seemingly equal time clocks would it even matter?  i'd think you could pretty easily sync the files from a single point without worrrying about drift. 

i'm not sure tmecode syncing really has a TON of application in our practice

[newblue]

However, with the 744T, I think you can do something like this (you need a special cord to go in the timecode port):

This would be the only drawback, folks would need to run a cable to all their positions to jam the TC.

The only other thing I'll add to the great info that is being shared here, is that just because you have more mics in the air doesn't mean you'll end up with a better recording. It's still all about positioning, mics & preamps, and all the other things we take for granted. The only thing the TC will do is help you in post. Layering 4 or 5 sets of mics on top of each other won't necessarily get you that top notch recording.

Wayne

Nope, you've got that WRONG. That's what jam-syncing does. You link up the two 744t's together, jam-sync them, then disconnect them, and if they are in FREE RUN mode they will continue to be in-sync for long-periods of time WITHOUT being connected to each other at all. That's the whole point of jam-sync. Again, I'm not claiming this can be done specifically with the 744T, but it can be with loads of other gear, and it is my understanding that it is totally possible to jam-sync multiple 744t's together in FREE RUN mode. You only jam-sync once, then disconnect. (There are other ways, which involves a constant physical connection, but that's not what I'm talking about -- check your manuals for FREE RUN JAM ONCE or something like that).

And, I totally agree about more mics does not equal better sound. BUT, if you were strategic about it, you could get way more COVERAGE (video term again, LOL!). How many times have you recorded AUD and then later wished you used a different set of mics or were in a different location? Plenty I bet. Well, get four guys to jam sync and then try four different things -- different locations and different mics and different stereo configs. Then in post, maybe you only use one source, maybe you mix two, maybe they all suck. But you have options that you wouldn't have had otherwise, and thus more coverage.

Also, this is more than just being about syncing multiple sources, this is about STAYING IN SYNC TOO (aka drift)! Those 744T's have high-end crystals in them people, and once in free run mode locked to a certain frame rate, the odds are WAY BETTER you'll stay in sync over time. In fact that is the main benefit, anyone can sync up the start of the show, it's KEEPING SYNC at high quality without having to stretch that is the benefit of jam-sync.

Something that this would allow (that I always would like try) would be to split up two sets of omnis (or other pick-up patterns) linked to two 744Ts that are jam-sync'd.  Trade files, split the channels and reassemble the two correct mic channels in one stereo recording and the other set of mics the same way.  You could make the ultimate split omni recording(s) w/o having drift between the two channels.  There are certian situations where this would be really sweet.  You could even add a third or fourth set of mics in the back of a hall or venue to complete a matrix.  It would seem to me that this would actually provide the beginnings to making real 5.1 channel surround DAUD recordings if you could get some cooperation.

[wbrisette]

i'm not sure tmecode syncing really has a TON of application in our practice

If the application supports timecode, then this is huge. It cuts down the amount of time screwing around with stuff by a factor of 10.

The problem is TC is such a b*tch, even for the guys working with it daily. A lot of questions the sound mixers have on the Deva list deal with TC and how to set it up to work so post is happy with it.

Wayne

[spreetaper]

speaking of flash... in another 10 years all new computers will be sold with flash drives only...
so making a flash device isnt all that bad.. they will just be ahead of their time 

32 gig flash drive just announced the other day that will just like regula Cf start out pricey but over time will come down quickly
http://www.newsfactor.com/news/Samsung-Launches-32-GB-Flash-Drive-/story.xhtml?story_id=11300B406KT1