Topic: What is the best, "RELIABLE!!", stealthable recorder

[~sin213~]

I have had nothing but problems trying to find a decent and RELIABLE stealthable recorder.  I have had 3 iHP-120's each of which were hit or miss whether a show would be transferrable from the hd to my computer.  I currently have a HI MD (RH10), but have had at least 5 out 15 of the discs mess up on me and not be able to transfer from the disc to my computer.  Now just recently, my HI MD messed up another way - I was removing a split from a show and it displayed REC ERROR and I lost my whole show...damn it!!

I thought about getting an R09, but read about all the line input issues with it being loose and breaking.  Had also thought about a MT recorder, until I read about how hot it got and then talked with a taper at Vegoose this past weekend that told me one actually blew up in his hand and burned him!  MAN!!!!

So, in your opinion...is there any recorder out there that has a good track record with being reliable and is also stealthable?

[Belexes]

I stealth an M1 and R-09 with no problems with either of them, input issue on the R-09 be damned.

The only problem with the M1 is that I used CoreSound's 7-pin and seemed to have damaged that interface for transferring. R-09 records and transfers without issue. 

[JiB97]

I would put a vote up for the JB3, even though it is a little bit bigger than most of the newer stealth units, it can still be done.  It has a lock feature, is very reliable, and has no lights or anything once you lock it.

I'm sure most will say that the JB3 is not your ideal stealth recorder, but if you are looking for something with a proven track record, and has a digi in, its tough to find something other than the JB3. (since you have already had problems with the iRiver)

And I'm not just saying this because I currently have a JB3 for sale. 

[edtyre]

R-09

Mine ran for almost a year and a half of heavy use before the line in broke
then after repair is good as new.

[boyacrobat]

found hi md more reliable than m1 to be honest.
my most reliable rec the hi md is.

sure you are running latest sonicstage ver ?
never had rec issues but have with transfers sometimes.

latest ver solved all my transfer probs

goodluck

g

[dorrcoq]

Never a problem with the R-09 (knock on wood!)

[gewwang]

I've been using an R09 since July 2006 though I've only used it about 3 times since June of this summer. I never had a problem with the line-in and therefore never needed the mod. I think I read somewhere that using a right-angle mini-in helps and I've been using the same right angle mini on the same XLR>mini interconnect cable 3 d100's, 2 r1's, and an r09 since 2000.

I've been stealthing the 722 instead of the R09 without any issues since June of this summer. It's not ideal for stealthing but it's not as hard as people believe.

[boyacrobat]

kudos taking the 722 as stealth machine.
man with balls

walk on

g

[rdflash]

kudos taking the 722 as stealth machine.
man with balls

walk on

g

or man that has removed his balls for more space

[dmonkey]

I like my R-09. Never had an issue with the jack like others have. I run a RA plug into the R-09 from my pre and it works fine. I'm just careful about when I put in and take out the RA plug, but that's about it. No kid gloves, but I also don't toss it across the room or give it to the neighbor's dog to chew on. 

In other words, I wouldn't be afraid of the R-09 due to the jack issue on some units.

[Arni99]

wait for the sony pcm-d50 which will be out in 2-3 weeks.
i had 3 edirol r-09 and all of them had the input problem(mic-input in my case and edirol couldn´t fix the fault!), although i always used a right angle plug and handled it extremely carefully as i knew about the input issue before i bought it.
personally i will never try an r09 again.
input issue and noisy preamps compared to HI-MD units.

i´m sure the new sony pcm-d50 is of great built-quality like any former sony recorders.

another more stealthable new recorder is the Zoom H2 Handy recorder:
Zoom H2

[sailcat]

i have had the zoom h2 for a while now, and I highly recommend it based on recording quality and price. the mic in is useless, but if you use your batt box/pre to line in, you should be good to go. The unit hasn't been out long enough for people to start breaking it, but I'd say the build quality is at least as good as the MT or R09. Any of these affordable units are going to be kind of plasticky. The Sony Hi-MDs are tougher, but you are familiar with their limitations as well. It's all a matter of what you want to put up with, I guess.

Ozpeter, who posts here, has done lots of in-depth testing of the H2, which is posted here: http://www.oreillynet.com/digitalmedia/blog/2007/04/zoom_h2_digital_recorder_detai.html

There is also a very interesting test of the surround capabilities of the h2 v.s. very high-end equipment here: http://www.radio.uqam.ca/ambisonic/comparative_recording.html

the samples are not up yet, but it should be pretty cool.

The best thing about the h2 for my needs is that the internal mics are very useable, so in open situations, or jam sessions at home, etc., you can just point and shoot and get very good results.

That said, you should also wait for the new Sony deck, as someone else suggested. It looks pretty cool

[tms]

Regarding the Zoom H2 vs. the Edirol R-09, how do each handle the 2gb split?   I think the R-09 is seamless and the H2 has about a 10 second gap.  Can someone confirm this?

[~sin213~]

Regarding the Zoom H2 vs. the Edirol R-09, how do each handle the 2gb split?   I think the R-09 is seamless and the H2 has about a 10 second gap.  Can someone confirm this?

Thank you to everyone that has provided feedback!  This has helped immensely!

So now I'm down to 2 (well, 3) choices...R09 or Zoom H2 (or wait for new Sony device).

We got a few weeks before the new Sony device comes out...So my question is the same as tms - how does the R09 and H2 handle file splits.

Again, thanx for all the feedback!!

[Brian Skalinder]

I have had 3 iHP-120's each of which were hit or miss whether a show would be transferrable from the hd to my computer.  I currently have a HI MD (RH10), but have had at least 5 out 15 of the discs mess up on me and not be able to transfer from the disc to my computer.

Have you considered that the problem may not lie in the recorders, but with your computer?  It seems unlikely that experiencing identical problems with all three iHP-120s and the RH-10 points to a recorder problem, and suggests, to me, anyway, it's the computer that's the root of the problem.

[silentmark]

Had also thought about a MT recorder, until I read about how hot it got and then talked with a taper at Vegoose this past weekend that told me one actually blew up in his hand and burned him!  MAN!!!!

The MT does not get hot, not sure who told you otherwise but I have never felt it abnormally "hot", maybe warm, just like any other piece of gear gets "warm."

Blew up in his hand ? Who was it ? Is he is on this forum ? I'm just curious as there has been only one reported case of the internal battery going up in flames. Frankly I call BS on that one ...

From my own personal use, the MT is rock solid now, YMMV ...

[petur]

Have you considered that the problem may not lie in the recorders, but with your computer?  It seems unlikely that experiencing identical problems with all three iHP-120s and the RH-10 points to a recorder problem, and suggests, to me, anyway, it's the computer that's the root of the problem.

I had exactly the same feeling.
The h120/h140 does have issues with its harddisk connector, but on all three would be a bit of a surprise unless they were together in one bag and you dropped it

[Krispy D]

depends on what you call stealthy, but I would vote for the PMD 660 as the most reliable (and stealthable) recorder I have ever had.

[~sin213~]

Have you considered that the problem may not lie in the recorders, but with your computer?  It seems unlikely that experiencing identical problems with all three iHP-120s and the RH-10 points to a recorder problem, and suggests, to me, anyway, it's the computer that's the root of the problem.

I had exactly the same feeling.
The h120/h140 does have issues with its harddisk connector, but on all three would be a bit of a surprise unless they were together in one bag and you dropped it

I know its not my computer - I'm an Information Technology professional with a custom built computer.  It rocks - believe me.  LOL!  The iRivers each had error messages display...if I remember correctly it was a Cyclic Redundancy Error.  The HI MD discs that wouldn't work wouldn't work for playback on the HI MD recorder itself, let alone transfer to my computer.  And then the recent error I had with my HI MD was on the recorder itself with a REC ERROR message when trying to remove a track split on the HI MD unit itself...not my computer.

I'm 100% positive that none of my issues are computer related - it is all recorder unit related.

Thanx for trying to troubleshoot from a different angle, though!

[~sin213~]

Had also thought about a MT recorder, until I read about how hot it got and then talked with a taper at Vegoose this past weekend that told me one actually blew up in his hand and burned him!  MAN!!!!

The MT does not get hot, not sure who told you otherwise but I have never felt it abnormally "hot", maybe warm, just like any other piece of gear gets "warm."

Blew up in his hand ? Who was it ? Is he is on this forum ? I'm just curious as there has been only one reported case of the internal battery going up in flames. Frankly I call BS on that one ...

From my own personal use, the MT is rock solid now, YMMV ...

The taper is not on this board - I was a little unsure that the unit actually blew up as well...but I've read all over these TS boards and there are plenty of threads about the MT running hotter than normal.

[silentmark]

I guess I have the only one that runs normal then 

Trust me the MT doesn't run hot and I have been using it since it first come out. The biggest knocks are the internal battery life, the lack of seemless split at the 2g file limit and the analog ins being noisy. As a bit bucket with a digital input and for the price, well it works for me ...

[dmonkey]

File splits on the R-09 are seamless. At least in my experience.

[Ozpeter]

File splits on the H2 seem to be around 20 seconds.  But you've got about 3 hours 10 minutes before you get there (at 16/44.1).  A manual stop/record enable/record start is pretty fast, during some applause or whatever.  10 seconds, say??

See http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,93532.0.html for what you can get out of the H2 stand-alone under optimum conditions.

[it-goes-to-eleven]

Trust me the MT doesn't run hot and I have been using it since it first come out.

All of these recorders give off heat and that heat can build if they are confined. Lithium batteries are temperature sensitive and produce a variable amount of their own heat when discharging..

Lithium batteries age more quickly when exposed to heat. It is a non-issue with the r09's cheap rechargables but a concern with the mt's internal battery.

[attheshow]

I know its not my computer - I'm an Information Technology professional with a custom built computer.  It rocks - believe me.  LOL!  The iRivers each had error messages display...if I remember correctly it was a Cyclic Redundancy Error.  The HI MD discs that wouldn't work wouldn't work for playback on the HI MD recorder itself, let alone transfer to my computer.  And then the recent error I had with my HI MD was on the recorder itself with a REC ERROR message when trying to remove a track split on the HI MD unit itself...not my computer.

I'm 100% positive that none of my issues are computer related - it is all recorder unit related.

Thanx for trying to troubleshoot from a different angle, though!

I know this sounds obvious, but in case you are unaware... Are you careful not to jar the recorder (or shut it off) during the track out write? Whenever you end recording or editing a track on the MD it writes critical information to the disk for 15-60 seconds. If there are any errors during this write your tracks will be unreadable. I'm careful with the MD during this write, and have never had a bad disk over two different MDs and many years of service.

[~sin213~]

I know its not my computer - I'm an Information Technology professional with a custom built computer.  It rocks - believe me.  LOL!  The iRivers each had error messages display...if I remember correctly it was a Cyclic Redundancy Error.  The HI MD discs that wouldn't work wouldn't work for playback on the HI MD recorder itself, let alone transfer to my computer.  And then the recent error I had with my HI MD was on the recorder itself with a REC ERROR message when trying to remove a track split on the HI MD unit itself...not my computer.

I'm 100% positive that none of my issues are computer related - it is all recorder unit related.

Thanx for trying to troubleshoot from a different angle, though!

I know this sounds obvious, but in case you are unaware... Are you careful not to jar the recorder (or shut it off) during the track out write? Whenever you end recording or editing a track on the MD it writes critical information to the disk for 15-60 seconds. If there are any errors during this write your tracks will be unreadable. I'm careful with the MD during this write, and have never had a bad disk over two different MDs and many years of service.

Yeah, I'm extremely careful not to shut it off or jar it when editing.  I hit pause, forward to the next track, & the second I hit REC to remove the track split it said REC ERROR and made a weird noise.

Interestingly enough, I was looking at the yard sale and found a R09 that has already had the line input fixed to mitigate the input issue.  That was my main and only concern with that recorder, so I bought it.  Perfect timing too.  I'm going to keep my eye on that new Sony PCM-D50, though.  It looks pretty legit to me!   

[petur]

I know its not my computer - I'm an Information Technology professional with a custom built computer.  It rocks - believe me.  LOL!  The iRivers each had error messages display...if I remember correctly it was a Cyclic Redundancy Error.

Well then, there should be no problem for you to open them up, check the solder joints and/or replace the harddisk.
If you plan to throw the irivers away, let me give you an address to use as bin

[George]

I was gonna vote for H140....I've never had an issue with mine when recording.

[calvinroots]

My R09 and I are getting along great!

[flintstone]

"Reliable" depends on your perspective. 

Consumer-grade gear has features like 1/8" TRS jacks, simple switches built onto circuit boards, and lightweight construction.  These devices are designed to last for a couple of years, at which time a newer, more desirable version will be available.  When consumer gear breaks, it's usually more cost-effective to replace rather than fix.

Pro gear is designed with a more robust construction.  It has to survive in a rough-and-tumble work environment for years.  People make their living using pro gear, so any failure comes with consequences.  Word gets around about gear that causes problems.  This is not to say that pro gear is bulletproof.  Failures do happen.  Pro gear is repairable, and rarely discarded.

Pro gear is several times more expensive than consumer-level products.  This is true in most lines of work, not only for audio recorders.  It's an investment in a tool that makes you money.

Can you get good results with consumer-grade gear?  Sure.  But you're less likely to get the consistent, predictable results that pro gear provides.

Flintstone

[dallman]

Trust me the MT doesn't run hot and I have been using it since it first come out.

All of these recorders give off heat and that heat can build if they are confined. Lithium batteries are temperature sensitive and produce a variable amount of their own heat when discharging..

Lithium batteries age more quickly when exposed to heat. It is a non-issue with the r09's cheap rechargables but a concern with the mt's internal battery.

I got my MT when it first came out onto the market. While the original firmware was buggy, this has long been fixed even though the bad rap continues. I have for a few years made many flawless recordings on it and since I use this recorder almost always for stealth situations, it is simply a matter of having a system in place. For instance, where I keep the unit (usually a phone case on my belt), where the mics are (usually in croakies on my glasses), how I run it (velcroed to the phone case which opens, showing me the screen). After the initial settings, I lock the buttons, which are easy to touch by accident, but easy to touch is a big plus when you do not want to look at the unit or draw attention. I can find all the buttons without looking as the layout is easy too. It is a great recorder. Mine never runs hot, but I usually have an external battery attached (in my pocket, short wire to the unit) , so in fairness it is drawing little  or no power from the internal battery. In fact I usually have a full charge showing on the MT at the end of a show. I like the external battery, because I never have to worry about turning the deck on or off while I am at a show and in a stealth environment, that is one more thing to not worry about. Also I have a battery box that plugs right on top the unit (from Sound Professionals), and that way I use the TRS jacks but the mic plugs in through the 1/8 jack.

I have a few other ways I use the deck in less stealthy environments, but again, I have a system and while I keep tweaking things, I don't vary much from show to show and don't ever have any problems.

Most stealth recorder systems work well if the flow is planned out and refined though use.

[scoper]

Another MT user here, with no problems at all that weren't my fault. True, the battery doesn't last as long now as it did before, but any number of external battery solutions will solve that.

For anything but a dead-quiet environment, the noise floor is perfectly acceptable (using the TRS inputs), and as noted it's very easy to set and use.

[~sin213~]

So what's your take on the new MT ver. 2?  What did they change/improve?

[silentmark]

It's not out yet. Maybe the end of the year ?

Supposedly they fixed the lack of seemless split at 2gig.

It still uses an internal battery and I have no idea how the analog in's are, improved or the same.